[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Let's be fair here... we are talking today and Model 3's are in production as are the F8x, so that's the competition today.

The Performance Model 3, which is the one that we are talking about in this thread, is not yet in production.

However, we can say for the sake of argument that it will be in production sometime this year (supposed to be July - we shall see). But that’s not the same as being “readily available”, which is what I said. Unless you are on the wait list already, it will not be readily available to you this year.

The G8x is at least 3 years away. You can't compare against the next gen M3 that doesn't yet exist.

Check that. It is at *most* three years away. It is at least two years away, though, sure.

Also... so the Model 3 may be 3.5s in 2018 but by the time the first G8x rolls of the production line in 2021, the Model 3 AWD Performance model may have shaved it's 0-60 down to the low 3's in which case the G8x likely still lags and in "ludicrous mode" it may be no contest.

See, there you go. So, in fact, clearly you can compare to “the next gen M3 that doesn’t yet exist” - you just did it there. All it takes is some educated speculation and a little imagination. That said, I don’t agree with your “no contest” prediction, but that’s okay, we can have different opinions. There’s no point in arguing about it now - we’ll know once both cars hit the market and comparison tests can be conducted.

So Musk is not "misguided." On the contrary, I think what he's doing is great. He's forcing BMW/MB to up their game. Frankly, I think it'll be tough for the base G8x to beat 3.5s, especially without AWD. We'll see but Musk is putting the pressure on and more competition is good for consumers.

The comparison against a car at its end of life is not very persuasive for those in the know, and performance car enthusiasts typically are. That’s why I called it misguided. Perhaps there are better words to use, but I maintain that the current M3 isn’t ultimately what the Model 3 PD will be measured against. If we assume a lifespan for the Model 3 that is similar to Model S, the G80 and Model 3 Performance will be market place competitors for the entire life of the former. The F80 M3, by contrast, will compete for buyers against the Tesla for exactly zero days of its life.

Also, I absolutely agree that what Musk is doing is ultimately a good thing. I am a fan of electric vehicles and will definitely buy one sometime in the next 15 years. Could be sooner than later, who knows? I don’t think much of the fact that Elon makes promises about availability timelines that he isn’t consistently able to keep, but whatever. I don’t have to like the guy’s approach to appreciate the results.