[mkoesel]

Hi there Technic. Good post. I do have some comments.

Originally Posted by Technic

I think that what the 1M did was to define the real meaning of what a "tuned series engine" really is from the point of view of corporate cost reduction. Other than the overboost feature the sucker was exactly like the series engine. Exactly. In other words, the end of what ///M used to do.

...

Every other ///M engine went thru much more significant and invasive variations of series engines, not just "tuned". Like displacement changes, block changes, individual throttles, even cylinder count.

Right, but can we all agree this is an outlier? I didn't bring it up to open the debate on that car's legitimacy again, just to use it as a point of contrast.

Regarding cost - lets also keep in mind that the cost of not using the N54 in the 1M may very well have been to not build the 1M at all, given the age of the E82 and the timing of the product. In the real world, we can't always throw more money at a problem to get it done faster. Maybe small company X can design an all new engine for new product Y on arbitrary timeline Z, but let's keep our expectations in line with reality for the corporate world.

Given the proper development timeframe, M has taken the approach of thoroughly reengineering the series engine for the F1x M-proper vehicles and F8x M-proper vehicles. I'll bet you believe they will do the same with F2x M-proper products as well. Am I right?

With that said, now more than ever an M5/M6 is a tuned 550i/650i, the X5M/X6M is a tuned X5/X6 and finally a M3/M4 is a tuned 335i/435i.

Try to even fathom saying that of a past M3 and M5 and you will know what I am talking about.

I don't agree with your characterizations and verbiage, necessarily, but I'm not going to nitpick. There's no question that an M engine is becoming more like a series engine. And not just more as compared to the S65/S85 of last generation (which had no series counterpart at all), but indeed arguably more than generations past as well. For the sake of argument let's go with that.

Turbocharging can make a displacement change unnecessary, right? Well, I mean you can do whatever you want, but if you meet the performance target with no displacement change from the parent engine, then you can't really make a business case in saying "yeah, but let's bump it up just because it makes it special".

Valvetronic and HPI make individual throttle bodies redundant too. Sure you can still use ITB, but again there's no reason to add complexity if it does not benefit performance and responsiveness.

Now, should M engines even be using things like Valvetronic and turbocharging? Well, that's another argument. My point is that the transformations we saw M make in the past to series engines were all very purposeful and not to make sure the engine met some quota of unique parts or satisfied some layman's terms of specialness. This is important to keep in mind. I know you know this, and others do too. But sometimes we get spoiled by side-effects and come to appreciate them more than the simplicity that was the motivation for the elixir.

Like I said before, I will get an F80 M3. Without doubt this will perform better than any M3 before. But that does not mean that I do not know that I am getting less than what I used to get in an ///M. The value, that intangible thing that will kill car models sooner of later, is just not there anymore. You can see value in the new Corvette, in the new Mustang, even in the upcoming C63.

In this one, not as much as before.

We are not on different pages. You seem to have a pretty level head about it all.

I wouldn't presume to tell other people how to see the world. We all have our grouses. I do notice that lately around here there is a lot of apparent hostility, vilification and finger pointing. I'm not sure its all properly placed, properly substantiated, deserved, fair, and frankly - a healthy approach. Make no mistake, the almighty dollar figures in, but what appears to be overlooked more often than not is that the cost of doing business changes.