Quote:
Originally Posted by m3alabama
Not sure why you are ignoring several seperate indepedant dyno's out there for the 1M showing indeed right around 400 crank hp! You simply cannot get 330 whp without right around 400 crank. Call it 385 if you will-nonetheless M used a basically stock n54 engine with no core changes and ramped up boost to get NEARLY 400 crank hp.
So you are saying 6 years later (that is how old the 1M technology n54 is atleast), they are unable to extract 50 more hp from a similar engine with upgraded turbo's and a valvetrain?? Sorry man I think you are way off. 50 more hp with a new set of turbos running a lower boost would likely easily get 50 hp if they were slightly bigger and this would be even less strained then the current pair of smaller snails which is still unstressed on the 1M.
You should really look through more of the 1M dyno's around. Watch any race or drag on youtube and the 1M is neck and neck with the m3 in a straight line from a roll (eliminating benefit of all low end torque). The 1M makes an easy 380 crank hp and there really is no debate if you believe in a 15 percent dyno loss which is exactly what is used with a typical m3 putting down 350 whp to get a crank of 414ish.
A bored and stroked 3.3 litre block with 3 turbos would EASILY put out 550 hp I have no doubt which clearly they would never do which is why they would never incur the extreme cost of a one-off increased displaced engine when their power goal is EASILY met with a 3.0L.
And it will reve to 7200 RPMS ATLEAST.
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Yes or no?
The key debate here is if BMW will in the near term produce a 3.0 liter engine with either 450 or 500 hp. My view, stated in multiple post above is very unlikely for the 450 level and pretty well impossible for the 500 for at least a couple of generations. Not impossible technically but impossible from an OEMs PRACTICAL perspective!
The specifics of the dynos of the 1M are
not at all the key issue. The key issue here is also
not the new M3's engine, head, valvetrain and internals. All of those probably are ALREADY good for a MODDED 500 hp.
Again the issues and rationale for my conclusion are:
1. This is an OEM we are talking about not a modder. It makes a world of difference.
2. All of the external and non turbo systems of the engine are the ones that an OEM will demand and engineer to be significantly upgraded to handle the higher power, heat levels and lubrication issues. These upgrades are costly. An engine is a complex system it just isn't as simple as the modder approach with modded software and more boost and "yer good to go".
3. BMW is on an important multi-year portfolio simplification with a plan to save costs and increase profits through massive re-use of common components and systems including engines across a huge range of models. Curiously enough this point could be used to argue for the 3.0 liter engine and against a 3.0 liter engine at the same time.
4. The next M3 and M4 are unlikely to have specific power outputs (hp/l) that exceed mature high end FI cars like the Porsche Turbo and McLaren MP4-12C.
Please re-read this. It is not about what is or is not possible from a modding nor technical perspective. It is about what this large OEM can do while VERY meticulously managing it hugely important cost reduction program with OEM levels of product integrity and reliability.
I think I've said everything I need to support my case at least twice. Feel free to disagree but in my opinion you have not made a strong case.