Bad experience dealing with BMW Canada

[FOLDR]

Hi Everyone:

First post here and I'm ranting... well sharing an experience I had dealing with BMW Canada. Just wanted to get it off my chest.

I'm a proud owner of a 2015 BMW M4, Mineral White with Sakhir Orange interior. Had it for about a year, and put 28,000km on it. I enjoyed every single km of it, but lately it started developing a problem with the brakes.

Now I should say that I DRIVE my cars. I baby them, but I drive them hard at the same time. In my mind a performance vehicle such as the M4 is designed to perform, and shouldn't be treated like a minivan. Regular wash and wax is a must, regular maintenance and check-ups, but also the occasional spirited sprints on empty country roads.

A couple months back my brakes, which are steel BTW, started developing a vibration under high speed braking. Coming off of highways the steering wheel would shimmy and the whole car would shake during braking at speeds above 60kph. It doesn't have to be heavy braking, just lightly touching the brakes at highway speeds is enough to make the car seem like the ABS is kicking in.

So naturally I took it to my local dealer (which I won't name here, but is located north of Toronto, Ontario) to have it checked out. They took the car to the back and ran a diagnostics, and it turned out that both front rotors had thickness variations in them. "Normally brakes are wear-and-tear components, but BMW Canada approved to have it covered under warranty" the service manager said, and proceeded with ordering the rotors and booking me in for the service.

Three weeks later I brought my car in for the warranty rotor replacement. Dropped it off at about 10am, service manager said it'll be done by the end of the day. Low and behold, at about 2pm, I received a call.

"BMW Canada decided not to cover the rotors under warranty" the service manager said. I was confused. "Didn't they approve it already?" "Yes they did" the service manager replied, "but now they're telling us it will not be covered under warranty".

Long story short, I went to pick up my car later in the afternoon, and the original faulty brakes were back on the car. Apparently my local dealership sent BMW Canada pictures of the faulty rotors before putting on the replacement, and BMW Canada determined that the rotors were "superheated" and developed "spyderweb cracks" (I'm quoting here) and decided to deny the warranty service.

So the first question that came to mind was, "wasn't the replacement APPROVED after detailed diagnostics was done at the dealership?". Yes it was. And somehow the second time around, BMW Canada decided to DISREGARD their previous approval for warranty replacement, and declined the replacement, AFTER the car was brought in and had its brakes already taken apart.

The second question that came to mind was, "how does one overheat the brakes on a M car on the streets?" We see in commercials that these cars were driven around on racetracks, engine roaring and everything. They must be able to stand up to spirited driving, no? I decided to give customer service a call and ask for their opinion. The very patient guy over the phone named Eric, employee number QXN08330 explained the following to me. I'm paraphrasing here as I don't remember the exact words that came out of his mouth:

"All our cars are designed for the street. If you drive any car hard, Ferrari or Lamborghini, it's going to have problems."

"How hard could I possibly have driven it on the streets?" I asked. "It's designed to be a performance vehicle. It's a M car. How does one overheat the brakes on a M car on the street anyway? It's supposed to stand up to spirited driving."

"As I said these cars are only designed for normal street driving" Eric, employee number QXN08330 answered.

So basically, after BMW Canada wasted both the dealership's and my time by first approving then declining the warranty service, after the car's been brought in and taken apart, their customer service representative basically told me that BMW M cars aren't designed to be driven hard. Not without developing problems in the braking department anyway.

My local dealership escalated the case with BMW Canada and are waiting for a resolution. To be honest, I am disappointed. I don't have a problem with BMW Canada declining the warranty service, as brakes are indeed wear and tear items. But if they're going to decline it, they should decline it up front. What I have a problem with is that they approved the warranty service, then decided not to go through with their commitment after the car's been brought in and taken apart, costing both the dealership and myself time and money. And instead of trying to make up for their sudden change of mind, they attempted to clear themselves of responsibilities by saying that their M cars aren't designed for spirited driving.

So yeah. That was basically what happened. If you stayed with me til the end, thank you for reading. I guess the takeaway from my encounter is, before receiving any warranty work from BMW Canada, be mentally prepared as it's possible that they will eat their word and decline to cover the work under warranty at the very last minute. Also, don't drive your M cars hard. At all. No accelerations at half throttles or more, taking corners at more than 30kph or braking with any sort of authority. Apparently, according to BMW, M cars are only designed for normal street driving.

Thank you.

[ChipB]

The type of vibration you're talking about is referred to as "brake judder" and is not uncommon for cars that are driven in a spirited manner. It typically comes about from repeated heavy braking - as the brake pad material gets hot it can "smear" across the face of the rotor, and uneven deposits of pad material can begin to build up. The result is a shaking in the steering wheel under braking. (N.B.: many people mistakenly call this phenomenon "warped brakes," but that's a misnomer - in general rotors don't warp except under extremely rare conditions.) There are two ways to fix it - either have the rotors turned to get rid of the deposits (which BMW won't do) or replace them. And to avoid this from occurring again after replacing the rotors I would recommend (a) switching to a higher performance brake pad than stock, and (b) going through a proper brake bedding process to make sure the pads and rotors work together as they should.

Now, I know what many people's reaction to this advice would be - shouldn't the M4 come from the factory already properly set up for this type of driving? Well, yes and no. The problem is that BMW is trying to produce a car that the majority of people won't find fault with. If they installed high performance brakes as stock they'd inevitably have complaints from people who don't like how grabby they can feel, or that they don't work as well when cold, or that there is a higher potential for squealing. They also don't want to have to educate customers about the bedding procedure for new brakes. So they use a brake compound that's OK, perhaps a bit better than what you'd find on a Toyota Camry, but not by much.

I do agree that corporate should have never approved the replacement under warranty. And having done so, they should have honored it. Have you been in touch with BMW Canada directly? I'm just wondering if perhaps the dealer screwed up when he originally told you they would be covered.

Finally, regarding the employee's statement that the M4 is meant for normal street driving - this is a pretty normal response from a car company. Believe it or not Porsche says the same thing about their cars. When a problem arises it lets them avoid having to make judgment calls between what constitutes spirited street driving versus abuse. In fact Porsche has been known to void warranties if they know that the car has been driven on the track.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by ChipB

I do agree that corporate should have never approved the replacement under warranty.

Why

[ChipB]

Originally Posted by ///M///

Why

From the warranty book:

"Items which are subject to wear and tear or
deterioration due to driving habits or
conditions, such as brake pads/linings, brake
discs, clutch disc, pressure plate, filters,
upholstery, trim and chrome items, paint
finish, drive belts, glass, and similar items,
are specifically limited to defects in material
or workmanship."

Unless the OP could show that there was a manufacturing defect in the rotors, the warranty won't cover it.

[FOLDR]

Originally Posted by ChipB

The type of vibration you're talking about is referred to as "brake judder" and is not uncommon for cars that are driven in a spirited manner. It typically comes about from repeated heavy braking - as the brake pad material gets hot it can "smear" across the face of the rotor, and uneven deposits of pad material can begin to build up. The result is a shaking in the steering wheel under braking. (N.B.: many people mistakenly call this phenomenon "warped brakes," but that's a misnomer - in general rotors don't warp except under extremely rare conditions.) There are two ways to fix it - either have the rotors turned to get rid of the deposits (which BMW won't do) or replace them. And to avoid this from occurring again after replacing the rotors I would recommend (a) switching to a higher performance brake pad than stock, and (b) going through a proper brake bedding process to make sure the pads and rotors work together as they should.

Now, I know what many people's reaction to this advice would be - shouldn't the M4 come from the factory already properly set up for this type of driving? Well, yes and no. The problem is that BMW is trying to produce a car that the majority of people won't find fault with. If they installed high performance brakes as stock they'd inevitably have complaints from people who don't like how grabby they can feel, or that they don't work as well when cold, or that there is a higher potential for squealing. They also don't want to have to educate customers about the bedding procedure for new brakes. So they use a brake compound that's OK, perhaps a bit better than what you'd find on a Toyota Camry, but not by much.

I do agree that corporate should have never approved the replacement under warranty. And having done so, they should have honored it. Have you been in touch with BMW Canada directly? I'm just wondering if perhaps the dealer screwed up when he originally told you they would be covered.

Finally, regarding the employee's statement that the M4 is meant for normal street driving - this is a pretty normal response from a car company. Believe it or not Porsche says the same thing about their cars. When a problem arises it lets them avoid having to make judgment calls between what constitutes spirited street driving versus abuse. In fact Porsche has been known to void warranties if they know that the car has been driven on the track.

Thanks for the explanation, it's very clear and helpful!

I haven't been in contact with BMW Canada. In fact, I couldn't get in touch with BMW Canada. My local dealership advised me to speak with someone from customer service regarding this while they escalate the case. Customer service told me that they do not have any contact info for BMW Canada's warranty department or any way for me to contact "someone from head office". They said it's best to go through the dealership. Herein lies the problem.

[///M///]

Did something change recently? I thought brake pads were covered? And warped rotors as well.

Originally Posted by ChipB

From the warranty book:

"Items which are subject to wear and tear or
deterioration due to driving habits or
conditions, such as brake pads/linings, brake
discs, clutch disc, pressure plate, filters,
upholstery, trim and chrome items, paint
finish, drive belts, glass, and similar items,
are specifically limited to defects in material
or workmanship."

Unless the OP could show that there was a manufacturing defect in the rotors, the warranty won't cover it.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by ///M///

Did something change recently? I thought brake pads were covered? And warped rotors as well.

Not in Canada, unlike in the US where brake pads/rotors are covered.

[FOLDR]

Originally Posted by ///M///

Did something change recently? I thought brake pads were covered? And warped rotors as well.

I've never heard of pad being covered under the standard warranty. Like tires they are wear and tear items, no? Maybe there's an extended warranty that covers the pads. Rotors though are another story, and should be covered in my opinion. In any case, these pads look like they can last the entire warranty period and more - mine are still good for 150,000km front and 110,000km rear according to iDrive.

[aboulfad]

To the OP, sorry for your trouble but note that BMW Canada is really no better or worse than your average dealer. Don't expect anything and always be ready to be disappointed, well at least that was my experience too on few occasions dealing with them. All manufacturers are making it harder and harder to make warranty claims and there's lots of shady practices happening at BMW dealers with dishonest unprofessional people, at least in my region!

PS: M cars are meant for track, even in their stock configuration! Care is needed by the driver to ensure proper cool down and to increase their longevity when driving in a spirited fashion.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Not in Canada, unlike in the US where brake pads/rotors are covered.

They will cover Rotors for warpage up to 20kms and one year.With 71000 kms & many track days I am still on my stock set of rotors but I make sure to do a proper cooldown before entering the pits.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Not in Canada, unlike in the US where brake pads/rotors are covered.

Thanks I missed that.

Originally Posted by FOLDR

I've never heard of pad being covered under the standard warranty. Like tires they are wear and tear items, no? Maybe there's an extended warranty that covers the pads. Rotors though are another story, and should be covered in my opinion. In any case, these pads look like they can last the entire warranty period and more - mine are still good for 150,000km front and 110,000km rear according to iDrive.

Sorry didn't know it was not the case in Canada. In the US it is covered.

[joz]

Brakes/rotors are such a dodgy coverage area as they fall under wear and tear.

Unless the dealership does you a solid you'll likely have a rough time on this one.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by FOLDR

I've never heard of pad being covered under the standard warranty. Like tires they are wear and tear items, no? Maybe there's an extended warranty that covers the pads. Rotors though are another story, and should be covered in my opinion. In any case, these pads look like they can last the entire warranty period and more - mine are still good for 150,000km front and 110,000km rear according to iDrive.

I believe pads and rotors are covered under maintenance that is included in the U.S. (not warranty).

[RowanBuds]

Originally Posted by ChipB

In fact Porsche has been known to void warranties if they know that the car has been driven on the track.

Hmm, seems odd to me. I haven't heard that but then again I haven't been up on the P-car community for a few years. Porsche has a great relationship with PCA, similar to some CCA chapters with BMW - I can't believe they'd jeopardize that part of the customer base, especially as they are usually some of the most loyal. I'm sure warranty repairs can be and have been denied in certain circumstances, but never heard the of the warranty being voided solely because they know the car was tracked. Just my $0.02.

[Ever.]

Funny enough, for model years up to 2016, pads and rotors replacement are under warranty for service when they're actually worn and needs replacement.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FOLDR

I've never heard of pad being covered under the standard warranty. Like tires they are wear and tear items, no? Maybe there's an extended warranty that covers the pads. Rotors though are another story, and should be covered in my opinion. In any case, these pads look like they can last the entire warranty period and more - mine are still good for 150,000km front and 110,000km rear according to iDrive.

Originally Posted by Ever.

Funny enough, for model years up to 2016, pads and rotors replacement are under warranty for service when they're actually worn and needs replacement.

In the US, wear and tear items are coverd under the standard maintenance plan, not the warranty. In Canada, you need to purchase an extended maintenance plan to get the brakes covered.

[CityLife]

People switch the brake pads out for track days, if the car is being driven in a spirited manner would track type pads have prevented this or no?

[CanAutM3]

OP, reading your story, I have a hunch your dealer never contacted BMW Canada after your first visit and only assumed it would be covered...

[dr.mba]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

OP, reading your story, I have a hunch your dealer never contacted BMW Canada after your first visit and only assumed it would be covered...

Agree 100% with this statement. In the past 8 years of owning BMWs not once have I had the rotors covered under warranty.

M

[summilux]

I think some of this had to do with the generosity of your service advisor. I had my rotors replaced under warranty at about 70K km because of juddering. This was 6 or 7 years ago though.

[FOLDR]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

OP, reading your story, I have a hunch your dealer never contacted BMW Canada after your first visit and only assumed it would be covered...

My SA explicitly told me that BMW Canada did in fact approve the warranty repair first time around. Think he's lying? I don't know, but he couldn't produce any records of the approval.

[FOLDR]

Originally Posted by summilux

I think some of this had to do with the generosity of your service advisor. I had my rotors replaced under warranty at about 70K km because of juddering. This was 6 or 7 years ago though.

Huh... I thought the decision has to come from BMW Canada, as they're the ones paying dealers for warranty service. Do service advisors work for dealers or BMW?