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      09-08-2011, 09:43 AM   #1
southlight
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Post BMW Patents Turbo V6 Engine. F80 M3 Application?

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BMW Patents Turbo V6 Engine. F80 M3 Application?
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UPDATE: We've added higher-quality schematics, including the shown variants.

Rumors of BMW considering V6 engines have been floating around for quite some while now. One possible future application often mentioned when talking about such an engine is the upcoming F80 M3 (F82 M4).

As we reported earlier, BMW was studying no less than four potential engine choices for the next M3.

To add to the speculation, we've just discovered that BMW has filed a patent for a unique twin-turbo V6 engine last year. Have a look at this schematic BMW submitted to the German patent office to describe the patent filing:

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As BMW describes in their patent application, this image shows "the principle of this turbocharger layout invention (#1) in a 6-cylinder internal combustion engine in V configuration (#2) with a first cylinder bank (#2a) -- pictured as 3 circles and labeled with Z -- and a second cylinder bank (#2b) -- also pictured as 3 circles labeled with Z."

Remarkable is the particular invention. According to these schematics, the exhaust gases of all 6 cylinders are routed into one turbocharger (#4) which BMW says may also be a twinscroll turbo (see images below, figures 3 and 5). After leaving the first turbocharger, the exhaust gases can be routed either into the exhaust system or into another turbocharger (#5). So this alludes to a sequential turbo layout. The patent application also mentions that this allows different sizes for both turbos.

*IF* this new engine was actually produced and used in the next M3, we would assume that BMW goes for a smaller twin-scroll as the first turbo, with a larger second turbocharger. All that being said, this patent filing doesn't necessarily mean they actually will use a V6 anytime soon, or at all. Patented inventions often get dismissed before making it to series production. At the very least however, this shows that BMW has (or is) actually considering V6 engines and how to make the related turbocharging as efficient and responsive as possible.

We'll try to update the subject as we get new information on possible F80 M3 engines.
Follow our F80 M3 coverage in the meantime: http://www.bimmerpost.com/m3/f30m3/




BMW Bi-turbo V6 Patent Filing
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Source: German patent office


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      09-08-2011, 11:31 AM   #2
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      09-08-2011, 11:35 AM   #3
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What's new here, though? The concept of sequential turbos isn't new. Something must be special for them to patent it, but I'm not sure if I understand what it is. Anyone care to explain?
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      09-08-2011, 11:38 AM   #4
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      09-08-2011, 11:42 AM   #5
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Humm... and where is the magical 3rd electric turbo gonna go?
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      09-08-2011, 11:51 AM   #6
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Hmm, turbocharged V6s have been done before (Saab, Audi, etc.) so what's new here? Perhaps sequentially-charged V6s are a new thing? I think the Toyota Supra was the last production car to feature a sequential turbocharger system, but that was an I6, not a V6. Speaking of which, I don't have any issues with BMW replacing the N.A. I6 engines with turbocharged 4-cylinders, but to replace I6s and V8s with V6 engines...why BMW, why??
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      09-08-2011, 11:51 AM   #7
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Sometimes patent applications disguise the product. In this case the real invention is probably the sequential turbo and bypass system. This could find itself on a V8 or I6 as well.

Often patent applications for camera lenses will indicate a different focal length that intended in order to throw off the rumor mill. The design can be easily scaled to the intended size.

I wold not jump to any conclusion yet that this is the next M3 motor.
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      09-08-2011, 11:52 AM   #8
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i wonder if they will be top mounted like the M5/X5-X6 M?
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      09-08-2011, 11:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
Sometimes patent applications disguise the product. In this case the real invention is probably the sequential turbo and bypass system. This could find itself on a V8 or I6 as well.
Good point. The patent document mentions the possibility to apply this to a V8, it doesn't mention an I6 however.


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      09-08-2011, 12:16 PM   #10
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ok BMW do your thing
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      09-08-2011, 12:18 PM   #11
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Kinda translation. feel free to correct anything I messed up

(57)summary: turbo alignment (1) for the combustion engine (2) with several cylinders (Z),that are exhaustsided(?) with at least one of the first or a second cylinder group (2a,2b) added toghether are, where the first cylinder group (2a) a first and a second cylinder group (2b) a second exhaust pipe (3a,3b) added in exhaust flow direction with a first turbine housing (4a) a first exhaust turbocharger (4) exhaust flow connected with a second turbine housing (5a) a second exhaust turbo (5) over a first stop(delay)organ(valve?) (6) exhaust flow connected, whereas the first and second exhaust(?) (3a,3b) in exhaust flow direction of the second exhaust turbo (5) in a connected exhaust portion (7) goes into, the second turbine housing (5a) goes into. Because of this inventiveness, the response is greater and engine usage is broadend.
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      09-08-2011, 12:20 PM   #12
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woah, just read my own post, and it doesnt make sence at all..lol
but its also written very weird in german.
Guess I gotta go back to school
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      09-08-2011, 12:23 PM   #13
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Sad to see M with turbo and V6 but that is something they'll have to do. There is a limitation on I6 design; long block causes cooling issues on the last two cylinders. I believe that is why turbo I6 overheats or limps easy. A V6 is better for turbo application since shorter block allow more efficient cooling on the cylinders.
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      09-08-2011, 12:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubso View Post
Kinda translation. feel free to correct anything I messed up

(57)summary: turbo alignment (1) for the combustion engine (2) with several cylinders (Z),that are exhaustsided(?) with at least one of the first or a second cylinder group (2a,2b) added toghether are, where the first cylinder group (2a) a first and a second cylinder group (2b) a second exhaust pipe (3a,3b) added in exhaust flow direction with a first turbine housing (4a) a first exhaust turbocharger (4) exhaust flow connected with a second turbine housing (5a) a second exhaust turbo (5) over a first stop(delay)organ(valve?) (6) exhaust flow connected, whereas the first and second exhaust(?) (3a,3b) in exhaust flow direction of the second exhaust turbo (5) in a connected exhaust portion (7) goes into, the second turbine housing (5a) goes into. Because of this inventiveness, the response is greater and engine usage is broadend.
Looks to me that they're describing a system in which all cylinders of each bank feed a single turbo. This turbo then feeds either A) output or B) a second turbo, depending on a (probably) ECU-actuated valve. So, hypothetically, you have a small turbo quickly spooling at the low-end. Then, at near-max spool, feeding a larger turbo. So rather than always feeding one turbo into the other, you bypass one for low-end torque and avoid lag.

Ref leaders 6, 7, 8, 9 - bypass the secondary turbo and 19, 20 - input from primary turbo into secondary turbo.

But that's just a bored engineer's lunch-break guess, don't sue me
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      09-08-2011, 12:52 PM   #15
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Reading the German document it refers to two cylinder-groups, not two cylinder rows. So this turbo layout could be describing a inline six ?

Last edited by Touring; 09-08-2011 at 01:26 PM.
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      09-08-2011, 12:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touring View Post
Reading the German document it refers to two cylinder-groups, not two cylinder rows. So this turbo-two layout could be describing a inline six ?
I think it can safely be applied to either configuration (even a flat / boxer style). Like Diver mentioned above - patent applications are purposefully vague or misleading to protect IP.
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      09-08-2011, 12:58 PM   #17
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i'd rather see a single turbo straight 6 engine. i know twin turbos have less lag, but the single turbo can really wallop you with power.
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      09-08-2011, 01:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Good point. The patent document mentions the possibility to apply this to a V8, it doesn't mention an I6 however.


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Like a 4.0L high-revving V8?


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      09-08-2011, 01:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT View Post
But that's just a bored engineer's lunch-break guess, don't sue me
You're low-balling, that was spot-on!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Touring View Post
Reading the German document it refers to two cylinder-groups, not two cylinder rows. So this turbo layout could be describing a inline six ?
The picture description (not shown in the image) explicitly refers to the diagram as a V6.


Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Like a 4.0L high-revving V8?
Hah, I wish!


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      09-08-2011, 01:54 PM   #20
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This looks a lot like the X5/6M engine with the turbochargers in the Vee of the engine.

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up with basically a 6 cyl version of that engine with computer controlled sequential turbos.

BMW has been really anal about minimizing turbo lag to maintain the responsiveness of the M engines. Sounds like they are doing some interesting work to that end!
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      09-08-2011, 02:22 PM   #21
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This must definitely be the next M3 (M4) Engine. The 3 turbo setup is to give as less turbolag as possible hence to have the required response at the track throughout the whole rev range.

Wake up people the new trend is to be smaller, more efficient and with more power. Just imagine how easy its going to be to tune the turbos of this engine and how much horsepower there will be there to unleash. The new Z4 is a 4 cylinder turbo and its faster than the previous 6 cylinder. Imagine what this beast engine will do. Just Imagine!
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      09-08-2011, 02:32 PM   #22
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I just hope they wont replace the fabulous I6 with the V6. Even if it is 60 degree V6, it is still not as good as I6.
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