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      10-31-2011, 07:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
Why is it that these patent drawings always look like Thomas Edison drew them with a straight-edge and quill?

Doesn't anyone at the office have AutoCad?
I think is because they dont want to give too much detail or other companies might try to steal the idea. Just maybe...
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      10-31-2011, 08:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosskie View Post
if its very detailed someone can come in and do the same style turbo but different motor or bigger shaft and get away with it.

This way BMW can just say that was our idea u cant use it
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrypon83 View Post
I think is because they dont want to give too much detail or other companies might try to steal the idea. Just maybe...
this. the drawings make sense if you're an engineer or familiar with thermal-fluid systems. the more generic they are, the better, covers more bases. check out Apple's patents.
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      10-31-2011, 08:29 PM   #25
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Forget efficiency, forget response.......they have gotten good at reducing lag......what this REALLY solves, IS HIGH-REVS!!!!!!

This will make it possible to have the efficiency and low end torque of the N54/N55, the flat torque curve like the S65, and the high-revs of the S65

That last one is the one that makes me I believe this technology could yield 450/400 tq/hp, with a 8k redline and power all the way to the top

Cheers,
e46e92
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      10-31-2011, 11:23 PM   #26
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This may be a dumb question to those who understand this better than I. If the power "spooling" of a smaller turbo is quicker and the larger turbo longer. Wouldn't it make sense to have a bi-turbo that uses two different size turbos?

At lower revs the smaller of the two would deliver the quick response needed off the line and the larger on to keep the power going longer at the top end?

I drive a Bentley Continental V12 Twin Turbo and the turbos kicked in back to back (not at the same time) I am wondering of this technology is even possible with two different size turbos.

Thanks
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      10-31-2011, 11:25 PM   #27
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Correction to my post. I DROVE the Bentley (don't own one)
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      10-31-2011, 11:29 PM   #28
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Brilliant

Brilliant Idea! Bring on the technology! Its an Electromechanical superturbocharger.
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      10-31-2011, 11:29 PM   #29
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Cars are becoming more and more like computers - obsolete in 3-4 years. Almost cheaper to buy new (highly depreciating) cars than contend with costly repairs of failed technology after the warranty period is over.
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      11-01-2011, 02:07 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Forget efficiency, forget response.......they have gotten good at reducing lag......what this REALLY solves, IS HIGH-REVS!!!!!!

This will make it possible to have the efficiency and low end torque of the N54/N55, the flat torque curve like the S65, and the high-revs of the S65

That last one is the one that makes me I believe this technology could yield 450/400 tq/hp, with a 8k redline and power all the way to the top

Cheers,
e46e92
8000rpm and fuel efficiency. Dunno if those two things mix well.

Tip:Just wait for the prices of second hand 458s to decrease. 9000rpm.
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      11-01-2011, 05:26 AM   #31
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Wow this is incredible. Can't wait to drive a car that has this!
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      11-01-2011, 08:02 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrypon83 View Post
I think is because they dont want to give too much detail or other companies might try to steal the idea. Just maybe...
I don't necessarily think the drawing requires more detail... but hand-drawn? A decent rendering wouldn't expose any more info.
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Last edited by James T. Kirk; 11-01-2011 at 10:50 AM.
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      11-01-2011, 09:15 AM   #33
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Sorry but BMW stole the idea from eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-TUR...ht_1028wt_1127

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      11-01-2011, 10:31 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
8000rpm and fuel efficiency. Dunno if those two things mix well.

Tip:Just wait for the prices of second hand 458s to decrease. 9000rpm.
They would have to depreciate 60% just to get in the ball park of a loaded ///M3. I love the F430 and the F458, but unless you are making 1mm ore more a year, have your house paid for, retirement paid for and college for the kids already saved for, its an idiotic purchase. 80-90k for a USED car that can only be driven 50-60 days a year is nuts if your not stupid rich.

But that is just me

Cheers,
e46e92
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      11-01-2011, 10:58 AM   #35
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Looks great, but as it was mentioned earlier, lifespan of those clutches/electric motor/gear reduction under such high temperatures will be an issue!

As it happened with variable geometry turbos, this technology should debut with a diesel engine (which runs lower exhaust/turbo temperatures).
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      11-01-2011, 12:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4NoMore View Post
this. the drawings make sense if you're an engineer or familiar with thermal-fluid systems. the more generic they are, the better, covers more bases. check out Apple's patents.
This is correct. The more generic the better...patent drawings are more legal than engineering.
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      11-01-2011, 02:47 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlosso View Post
Originally the rumors were that a tri-turbo set-up would be two traditional turbos and one electric one. Now that we know more about this "electric" turbo, it looks to be an evolution of the turbo that adds electric assist to get it spooling until there is enough exhaust gas to take over. This could allow for the use of bigger turbos without the lag that they are known for.

It seems like this could be used to reduce the number of turbos needed rather than be a supplemental turbo.

It will be interesting to see how these are used and how they perform.
+1

Two of these in parallel on a straight six (or V6) could do wonders. And while it seems complex, if these do away with the extra turbo, the twin scroll turbines and associated piping, three wastegates, several actuation valves in the exhaust and inlet piping and VNT manouvering (all of these potentially part of a triturbo set-up), it's actually much less complicated and robust - if they can make the clutches work against the heat!
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      11-02-2011, 04:05 AM   #38
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Clever, but I don't see any particular reason why this would fit in with a tri-turbo idea. Looks more like an optimized single turbo design.
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      11-02-2011, 09:49 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
Why is it that these patent drawings always look like Thomas Edison drew them with a straight-edge and quill?

Doesn't anyone at the office have AutoCad?
+1! Hahahaha.
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      11-02-2011, 10:26 AM   #40
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This is a really cool design in theory. Honestly though, the first thing that entered my mind is that I would never want a car with one. Makes you wonder if those clutches will be serviceable or not or what the expected life of the unit will be...very cool, but sounds like a potential maintenance nightmare.

I can see the service report now - issue was related to compressor side internal turbo clutch slipping...say what!?

Still, very cool if they can make it reliable with little to no periodic maintenance.
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      11-02-2011, 10:27 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
Clever, but I don't see any particular reason why this would fit in with a tri-turbo idea. Looks more like an optimized single turbo design.
Concur.
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      11-02-2011, 12:15 PM   #42
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Looks very interesting. I would concentrate on fixing the HPFP failure first...
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      11-02-2011, 12:38 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
I think of is KERS from F1 with the energy recovering wastegate replacement.

Or any hybrid.

In regards to the comments about this solving turbo lag...anyone ever hear of a sequential turbo setup? Either via two same sizes turbos (in the case of the RX-7) or a slightly larger secondary (I can't think of an example at the moment).

Granted this is less complicated mechanically and far more compact, turbo lag, when implemented correctly is not noticeable, if present at all. the downside of course is cost.
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      11-02-2011, 12:44 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Or any hybrid.

In regards to the comments about this solving turbo lag...anyone ever hear of a sequential turbo setup? Either via two same sizes turbos (in the case of the RX-7) or a slightly larger secondary (I can't think of an example at the moment).

Granted this is less complicated mechanically and far more compact, turbo lag, when implemented correctly is not noticeable, if present at all. the downside of course is cost.
BMW is already producing sequential turbo setups for 335d and 123d (both diesel). This electromechanical turbo should have instant spool up, much better than any conventional or sequential turbo.
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