Weight prediction - F80 M3

[Powerslide]

Given that the F30 models are going to be between 88-99kg lighter than corresponding E90 models, what is everyone's prediction as to weight of a base F80 (IIRC - 3650-3700 lbs for U.S. Spec E90). Assuming this same weight reduction range will also apply to F80 - we are looking at 3450-3500 lbs for US spec model.

If the F80 uses even more aggressive weight reduction measures - even better!!

[Levi]

1580-1620 kg (EU)

Not less, not more.

But just think, M3 E46 weighed 1570 kg (EU) and had 343 PS. M3 CSL (E46) weighed 1460 kg (DIN) and had 360 PS. Now imagine a 1590 kg M3 F30 that has 450 PS and 550 Nm? It will be the fastest BMW ever (unfortunately, I say this be cause till today we still have no M1 Hommage).

[Envyscorpio]

Originally Posted by Levi

1580-1620 kg (EU)

Not less, not more.

But just think, M3 E46 weighed 1570 kg (EU) and had 343 PS. M3 CSL (E46) weighed 1460 kg (DIN) and had 360 PS. Now imagine a 1590 kg M3 F30 that has 450 PS and 550 Nm? It will be the fastest BMW ever (unfortunately, I say this be cause till today we still have no M1 Hommage).

+1 If the new F80 M3 is the same weight as the E46, it'd be really interesting to see how performance stack up against other same category performance saloon. Every time BMW comes out with a new M, it's always a tad heavier than its regular, less powerful siblings. Just take the F10 M5 for example. So I doubt the F8x M3 would weight less or even come close to the E46 weight.

I'd like the next generation F M's to be in the 1500kg (3300lb) area and a CSL version in the 1360kg (3000lb), but whats the point when the new chassis is like a boat. Err... too long.

Make an M3 that weights the same as E46 with similar dimension and I'll over-look if BMW uses a Turbo V6 as its next power plant. LOL... But it's too late

[Levi]

Well if you want something like an M3 E46, you have to wait for the M2 F22: FI 2.0l I4, ~320 PS, ~1400 kg (DIN).

[swamp2]

I guessed 3490-3650 lb about a year ago and I am sticking with this guess. This is pretty close to Levis guess as well.

Link.

[Uli_HH]

According to my Informations the new F80 M3 should not weight more than the F30 335i ... and the F30 335i weights 1.510kg (DIN).

Greets Uli_HH

[Levi]

Not bad! But I would still like some other engine than the laggy, unreliable bad old N54. When Audi came with its 3.0 TFSI Supercharged V6, the N54 was no more "Engine of the Year".

[hwelvaar]

Originally Posted by Levi

Not bad! But I would still like some other engine than the laggy, unreliable bad old N54.

Did you drive a 1M ? I guess you didn't. It is regarded as the best M that BMW has launched in years, and what kind of engine does it have ?
The N54.

So stop spreading fake information. ("laggy, unreliable bad old N54")

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

Did you drive a 1M ? I guess you didn't. It is regarded as the best M that BMW has launched in years, and what kind of engine does it have ?
The N54.

So stop spreading fake information. ("laggy, unreliable bad old N54")

Oh boy ... this glory N54 dreamer fraction!

The 1M isn´t so good because of its engine ... it´s so good despite its engine!!!

An 1M with an S65 or an V6 would be far better than the the car BMW made.

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by Levi

Not bad! But I would still like some other engine than the laggy, unreliable bad old N54.

Have you ever driven an N54?

[Levi]

No but I shall, if that is what the next M3 F80 is getting.

[Soorena]

I will be surprised if it weighs less than 1600 kg.
True the new F30 weighs 40 kg less than E90, however Autocar says with the extra equipment in F30, it weighs exactly the same as E90. So now the difference in weight depends on the engine. Saying it's a I6, it will weigh just a little less than S65.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by Levi

No but I shall, if that is what the next M3 F80 is getting.

Go out and drive one, even the standard N54 is a great engine.

[Uli_HH]

BTT: According to my infos the new F80 M3 seems to be very light ... the infos quotes ~1.385kg / 3.100lbs as emty weight of the new M3 (DIN) !!!
This weight was reached from an combined high-straight steel+carbon composite car body and body panels also produced in carbon composite.

Greets Uli_HH

[swamp2]

^Wow, sounds too good to be true. Sounds VERY expensive as well. There is probably little to be gained with CF body panels over the existing SMC (sheet molding compound - which is a composite, just not CF) body parts on the current car. If that weight is true and the car also has 450 hp it would really FAST compared to the current car.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

BTT: According to my infos the new F80 M3 seems to be very light ... the infos quotes ~1.385kg / 3.100lbs as emty weight of the new M3 (DIN) !!!
This weight was reached from an combined high-straight steel carbon composite car body and body panels also produced in carbon composite.

Greets Uli_HH

3100 lbs would make it 154 lbs lighter than the new 991 chassis 911 S that just came out... Don't get me wrong - i would be thrilled to death but find that very hard to believe...

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by swamp2

^Wow, sounds too good to be true. Sounds VERY expensive as well. There is probably little to be gained with CF body panels over the existing SMC (sheet molding compound - which is a composite, just not CF) body parts on the current car. If that weight is true and the car also has 450 hp it would really FAST compared to the current car.

Okay ... you are right! But these numbers are the target weight for the new F80 M3, but it seems like they have make great advantages in weight reduction issues and could really reach this target!

These numbers couldn´t be reached by putting CF body panals over an regualar steel car body ... but if you look at the i3, you see that BMW and SGL could make an complete body from carbon composite and this at an tolerable price tag ... so it seems really possible, that BMW combined those possibilities with high straight steel parts to make an really light car body ... this is also the reason for the new intern lable F80 instead of F30!

The bad thing is that BMW has decided, that because of the great weight reduction effort the new M3/M4 doesn´t need an special and innovative new engine to reach the targeted performence numbers well above all other cars in its class.

Greets Uli_HH

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

Okay ... you are right! But these numbers are the target weight for the new F80 M3, but it seems like they have make great advantages in weight reduction issues and could really reach this target!

These numbers couldn´t be reached by putting CF body panals over an regualar steel car body ... but if you look at the i3, you see that BMW and SGL could make an complete body from carbon composite and this at an tolerable price tag ... so it seems really possible, that BMW combined those possibilities with high straight steel parts to make an really light car body ... this is also the reason for the new intern lable F80 instead of F30!

The bad thing is that BMW has decided, that because of the great weight reduction effort the new M3/M4 doesn´t need an special and innovative new engine to reach the targeted performence numbers well above all other cars in its class.

Greets Uli_HH

Assuming that there will be such massive differences in structural materials in the F8x vs. The F3x, and given that there surely will be a cost associated with that, perhaps the only way BMW could keep the M3 in the same price range it has always been in (adjusting for inflation) perhaps they had no choice but to o with the much cheaper development costs of a highly-tuned N54/55 vs. a brand-new engine...

Also - and again I hate to be pessimistic because I truly hope your information is correct, but could it be that the 3100 lb. target weight is for the post F8x generation M3 (that would actually be much more believable - especially in terms of developmental costs (which in turn would be spread out over a greater number of years, and therefore, less cost to pass on to the consumer)...

[Powerslide]

Since the F30 owners manual shows the 335i weight at 3660lbs - I'm hoping that this will be the absolute heaviest that the F80 will be (which would still be about 90lbs lighter than the E90).

Same weight as 328i at 3550lbs and with hp up to 450-470 - totally awesome...

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

BMW and SGL could make an complete body from carbon composite and this at an tolerable price tag

Have to disagree on this as well.

1. M3 will almost certainly use the same body as the base model. Cost would skyrocket unless they do.
2. Full composite bodies are the things of race cars, not even race cars but high end race cars (well and a few exotic production cars now like McLaren, Lamborghini, etc.). The reason - cost, cost, cost. BMW and SGL simply cannot produce a cost competitive full composite body car.

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Have to disagree on this as well.

1. M3 will almost certainly use the same body as the base model. Cost would skyrocket unless they do.
2. Full composite bodies are the things of race cars, not even race cars but high end race cars (well and a few exotic production cars now like McLaren, Lamborghini, etc.). The reason - cost, cost, cost. BMW and SGL simply cannot produce a cost competitive full composite body car.

That´s an misunderstanding .. the full composite body car is the new i3 and not the F8x ... my sources quotes an mixed high straingh steel + Carbon composite body for the F80.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

That´s an misunderstanding .. the full composite body car is the new i3 and not the F8x ... my sources quotes an mixed high straingh steel + Carbon composite body for the F80.

It makes sense to have a small amount of CF in the new M3 body but how and where. No matter where you put it the costs will be high (due in part to fairly low volume as well as high material costs). Then there is the complexity of attaching CF to steel which must be done with many fasteners and or glue (epoxy of course). It is all expensive. We will see! Thanks again for your insider information!