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View Poll Results: what engine you'd like to see in the F80/82?
A 5.0L N/A S65 28 16.57%
A twin turbo modified S65 48 28.40%
An inline 6 twin turbo 47 27.81%
A V6 tri-turbo 35 20.71%
None of the above 11 6.51%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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      02-13-2012, 03:01 PM   #45
aajami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Agreed - Porsche 911 GT2 as another example... Can't image that car would perform as well with a NA I6... (not knocking NA I6 configuration - just agreeing that turbocharging in and of itself cannot be categorically viewed as negative thing)...
My issue with turbos isn't that of performance. Frankly, turbos can produce monsters in examples like the 911 Turbo, 911 Turbo S, 911 GT2 RS, Nissan GT-R, F10 M5, etc.

My issue is that turbos are just another in a long line of technologies that serve to interfere with the connection that the driver has with the car and the road. I worry that car manufacturers have long since forgotten that it takes a lot more than 0-60 times to excite a driver. A turbo engine simply does not communicate as much information to the driver as an NA engine does. They tend to sound muddled, they don't rev or react as quickly as their NA counterparts, nor do they send as much vibrations through the cabin. Can they produce power? Absolutely. Can they do so efficiently? You bet. Are they easy to juice for further power? Undoubtedly. Will they ever come close to sounding like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=c7XutwrMaf0

Never.

Car manufacturers continue to load up their cars with things that take away from the enjoyment of driving. I salute Subaru and Toyota for making the GT-86. It's not the fastest car in the world, but I bet you it's significantly more fun to drive than almost anything below $100,000.

BMW and the M division built their reputations on this philosophy, and they seem to be moving away from it with every successive car that they release.

Sadness.
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      02-13-2012, 06:49 PM   #46
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Victim of their own success, and of political and economical reality.
The numbers on paper must outperform those of the previous generation (marketing) but the consumption/emission numbers must be lower than previous generation (politics/economics).


There's only so much an engineer can do to achieve both. And today that seems to be turbo-charging.

The Toyota/Subaru you mention, does not have a previous generation and established clientele, so the marketing rules do not yet apply. So it starts at about +200 HP, where the M3 started its career...

Same with Audi TT when it launched 12 years ago. (225 HP)
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      02-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #47
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The New M3 will have the same engine as the current M5. Just sayin.
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      02-24-2012, 04:19 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertabahn View Post
The New M3 will have the same engine as the current M5. Just sayin.
Nope ... it is based on the S63T of the current M5, but as 3.3ltr.V6 and not as 4.4ltr.V8 ... simply sayed there are 2 cylinders cut off.
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      02-25-2012, 03:44 PM   #49
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The New M3 will have the same engine as the current M5. Just sayin.
Of course it won't. Why would BMW cannibalize sales and perception of the M5, M6, and M6 GC by shoving the same engine into a lower segment car like the M3? The M3 will get its own powerplant that, while being plenty powerful, will be far enough away from the S63tu's specs to keep M5 and M6 owners happy.
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      03-08-2012, 04:13 PM   #50
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Gas Prices are reaching $5 this summer in California, way higher in other states. I gotta say! I love the sound of the v8 grunt but unfortunately due to ridiculously sky rocketing gas prices and high demand on gas. Might as well forget about the s65 tt, on the New m3 model's and go with a better gas efficient, well balance, smoothness, of the Inline 6 turbo. Yes Mustangs 5.0 Boss 302 laguna. Can eat a m3 for breakfast but compare it to a 3.3 i6 in fuel Efficient no contest you may beat me in the quarter mile but you will run out of gas before I do. Plus you maybe paying less for that car Now! compared to a bmw but at the end you will spend so much money on gas that you can buy a new m3 lol. I'm just saying BMW new vision Today is gas Efficiency, that is why they had dropped their v10s on the m5's. So my Vote is for the i6 tri turbo

Last edited by blkE92; 03-08-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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      03-08-2012, 04:48 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkE92 View Post
Gas Prices are reaching $5 this summer in California, way higher in other states. I gotta say! I love the sound of the v8 grunt but unfortunately due to ridiculously sky rocketing gas prices and high demand on gas. Might as well forget about the s65 twin turbo, on the New m3 model's and go with a better gas efficient, well balance, smoothness, of the Inline 6 tri turbo. Yes Mustangs 5.0 Boss 302 laguna. Can eat a m3 for breakfast but compare it to a 3.3 i6 in fuel Efficient no contest you may beat me in the quarter mile but you will run out of gas before I do. Plus you maybe paying less for that car Now! compared to a bmw but at the end you will spend so much money on gas that you can buy a new m3 lol. I'm just saying BMW new vision Today is gas Efficiency, that is why they had dropped their v10s on the m5's. So my Vote is for the i6 tri turbo
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      03-09-2012, 10:02 AM   #52
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Your sig

Hey, I like your sig:

"the fastest guys on public roads are usually the slowest guys on the track"

Why do you think that is?
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      03-11-2012, 05:52 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by subtlestylez View Post
Hey, I like your sig:

"the fastest guys on public roads are usually the slowest guys on the track"

Why do you think that is?

That quote is just silly. Usually most are faster than me because they have more power than my car and can accelerate faster but when it comes to curvy roads they just can't keep. The the guys that are fast on track know what they are doing, so they do not drive dangeriously on open roads because they are responsible. They drive slowly and jsut wait the WE on track. But if they drove are they are able to on open raods they'd leave all drivers on the place.
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      03-12-2012, 11:14 AM   #54
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Quote:
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That quote is just silly. Usually most are faster than me because they have more power than my car and can accelerate faster but when it comes to curvy roads they just can't keep. The the guys that are fast on track know what they are doing, so they do not drive dangeriously on open roads because they are responsible. They drive slowly and jsut wait the WE on track. But if they drove are they are able to on open raods they'd leave all drivers on the place.
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      03-13-2012, 11:15 AM   #55
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Hi all,
I just came back from Garching and saw there the F80 ...
It is definitely a 3.3-liter R6!
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      03-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
Hi all,
I just came back from Garching and saw there the F80 ...
It is definitely a 3.3-liter R6!
Tell me more, pretty please!


Best regards,
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      03-16-2012, 07:15 PM   #57
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If we look at this logically which means looking at package size, weight, tune ability then I would say the logical step for BMW is in fact a twin turbo V6. Especially considering that they have mastered having most of the plumbing/hardware inside the V like in the M5 V8. the V configuration takes up less space and allows the motor to be moved further back. Plus if you listen to the videos there is a distinct GTR sound to it, which differs to the sound of an inline motor.

If I was a betting man I would put my money on the V6.
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      03-19-2012, 06:27 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingfishtuning View Post
If we look at this logically which means looking at package size, weight, tune ability then I would say the logical step for BMW is in fact a twin turbo V6. Especially considering that they have mastered having most of the plumbing/hardware inside the V like in the M5 V8. the V configuration takes up less space and allows the motor to be moved further back. Plus if you listen to the videos there is a distinct GTR sound to it, which differs to the sound of an inline motor.

If I was a betting man I would put my money on the V6.
I6 vs. V6 = 50/50 because we have no 100 % confirmed info.


Hard to guess.
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      03-19-2012, 10:01 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingfishtuning View Post
If we look at this logically which means looking at package size, weight, tune ability then I would say the logical step for BMW is in fact a twin turbo V6. Especially considering that they have mastered having most of the plumbing/hardware inside the V like in the M5 V8. the V configuration takes up less space and allows the motor to be moved further back. Plus if you listen to the videos there is a distinct GTR sound to it, which differs to the sound of an inline motor.

If I was a betting man I would put my money on the V6.
+1

... even after kueks was told at Garching that it was an 3.3ltr.I6 my first thought was "they dont tell him the full truth - 3.3ltr. is right / I6 is not" ... why an fully new developed I6 would have exactly this 3.3ltr. and not 3.5ltr. for example ... by 3.3ltr. all in me is crying "V6 based on the S63T".

Like the AG N20 is essentially an shorted N55 and so have many common parts ... it would make many sense for the M-GmbH just to make the same and make all near future engines derivates from the "great" S63T V8 BiTurbo ... with 2 cylinder less an 3.3ltr.V6 BiTurbo for M3/M4 and divided longitudinally an 2.2ltr.I4 Bi(or Tri-)-Turbo for the coming M2.

Greets Uli_HH
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      03-20-2012, 01:08 AM   #60
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Guys, I'm honest!
Currently, I would put money on anything!

It's already happening with the publication date. I was told something by March 2013, another forum member a few days before, something about "not before 2014".

The question for me was engine only vaguely answered!
They said very clearly that it would be a i6. When I had to ream capacity already and only got a "more than 3 liters capacity" actually removed.
Only after massive demand and some complicated and roundabout way, I got to listen to 3.3 liters.

Now, with a week away from my visit, and some other information coming from other users in the meantime, I think at present not a single word from the M-GmbH.
Rather, I'm massively assume that the drive is currently a great obfuscation and deliberately placed false information in many places.
Even customers are aware there supplied with "confidential" misinformation, as it seems.

As I said:
I trust the statements are not even from the wallpaper to the wall and I feel ripped a little bit about this situation ...
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      03-20-2012, 03:32 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
Guys, I'm honest!
Currently, I would put money on anything!

It's already happening with the publication date. I was told something by March 2013, another forum member a few days before, something about "not before 2014".

The question for me was engine only vaguely answered!
They said very clearly that it would be a i6. When I had to ream capacity already and only got a "more than 3 liters capacity" actually removed.
Only after massive demand and some complicated and roundabout way, I got to listen to 3.3 liters.

Now, with a week away from my visit, and some other information coming from other users in the meantime, I think at present not a single word from the M-GmbH.
Rather, I'm massively assume that the drive is currently a great obfuscation and deliberately placed false information in many places.
Even customers are aware there supplied with "confidential" misinformation, as it seems.

As I said:
I trust the statements are not even from the wallpaper to the wall and I feel ripped a little bit about this situation ...
All will be revealed in good time, I suppose.
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      03-20-2012, 06:28 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
Guys, I'm honest!
Currently, I would put money on anything!

It's already happening with the publication date. I was told something by March 2013, another forum member a few days before, something about "not before 2014".

The question for me was engine only vaguely answered!
They said very clearly that it would be a i6. When I had to ream capacity already and only got a "more than 3 liters capacity" actually removed.
Only after massive demand and some complicated and roundabout way, I got to listen to 3.3 liters.

Now, with a week away from my visit, and some other information coming from other users in the meantime, I think at present not a single word from the M-GmbH.
Rather, I'm massively assume that the drive is currently a great obfuscation and deliberately placed false information in many places.
Even customers are aware there supplied with "confidential" misinformation, as it seems.

As I said:
I trust the statements are not even from the wallpaper to the wall and I feel ripped a little bit about this situation ...

Hey, nothing wrong kueks. Just that if the 3.3l is right I'd see 70% chance of it being a V6, 30 % an I6. There is little probability they set the two S63 banks appart, got an I4, added two cylinders to get an I6. Way to complexe for not alot worth. However concering the turbos the question remains. Three real turbos, or two real and one electric? If three real I'd say I6 because, if two and one electric I'd say V6.


We shall se the M3 Sedan F80 in Geneva 2013. It should go on sale in summer 2013 (EU). The M4 Coup about one year later, M4 Coup Concept at Geneva 2014.
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      03-23-2012, 10:37 PM   #63
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      03-23-2012, 10:41 PM   #64
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BMW, please fit a ultra high revving I-6 TT into the new M3s. Maybe rev at 9-10k, to make up the adrenaline rush of the N/A V8 going out.
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      03-24-2012, 03:17 AM   #65
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Quote:
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The Toyota/Subaru you mention, does not have a previous generation and established clientele, so the marketing rules do not yet apply. So it starts at about +200 HP, where the M3 started its career...

Same with Audi TT when it launched 12 years ago. (225 HP)

In fact they have. It is all that are owners of the Mazda MX-5, Mazda RX-7, Mazda RX-8, Nissan Silvia, Honda S2000, Toyota Celica, Toyota MR2, Toyota AE86.
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