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      03-23-2012, 12:22 AM   #23
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      03-23-2012, 01:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MERCSUk153 View Post
You think Audi copied BMW's engine? You do know that it takes years of R&D for an engine to come to life so just because BMW recently released a car with this design doesn't mean Audi saw it and just decided to copy it. Doesn't work like that.
Audi has been doing FI many years ahead of BMW so no need for Audi to copy BMW.

Did you even read my post or did you scan a few words than automatically jump to audis defense ?
Those are the quoted words of the automotive press.
Furthermore, you do realize the N63 motor has been available to the public since 2008(4+ years ago) with information regarding its layout possibly even sooner. So yes it does and did work like that.

Yes Audi has been appling turbos to their line up for quite some time but some how didn't, couldn't or wouldn't figure out to place the turbos into the valley of a 4 liter V8 until recently. Of course if the (BMW)formula already exist that would cut the R&D process time by a great deal.....

By the way, what year was the first turbochargerd Audi motor and what was the first BMW turbocharged motor ?



You are something else.
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      03-23-2012, 10:38 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by MERCSUk153 View Post
BMW first car with the turbo was in 1980 with the 745i then BMW didn't make another turbo car for 26years until the 335i and they messed up on that engine with the hpfp so I don't think Audi would aspire to copy BMW's FI engines.
Audi first car with turbo engine was the 200 in 1979. Then have consistently have had turbo engines in the car lineup. Previous to the current RS4 Audi has been using FI in more or less all of the RS4 and RS6 cars and also in regular production cars also such as the A4.
NO, it was not the 1980 745i. Now remember, you originally bought this point up...
So, in your opinion the 335i motor, " they messed up" because of an faulty outsourced pump ? Like I said before, Audi has been making turbo motors for quite sometime now. NOW, all of a sudden they decide to make a reverse flow 4liter v8 with turbos in the valley, 4+ years after BMW does it...... you're kidding me right ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MERCSUk153 View Post
That Edmunds article was a joke. Audi and Bentley jointly developed this engine because they like BMW saw a need to go to smaller engines and more fuel efficient engines and this design makes it possible to make a smaller TT V8. Copying NO coincidence yes. I am sure BMW has patents on this so not like Audi can just copy the design and not like they would want to. If this was a NA engine I wouldn't even bother arguing with you as in my opinion Audi would do well in copying BMW's NA motors. IMO Audi NA motors suck a$$ but the FI motors don't, because they have been consistently doing FI much longer than BMW.
Ok, Now why exactly was that edmunds article a joke ?
Edmunds gave somewhat good reviews on the motor and the car it was in but they also said it is a BMW borrowed design(copied). That's the part you don't like hence the article being "a joke" to you. If i'm wrong prove me wrong and tell me exactly why the article was a joke...
Do you know anything about patents, (because I do) or are you just adding empty theories ?
You wrote: "Audi and Bentley jointly developed this engine because they like BMW", and that's where your sentences should have ended.
Believe me, you are not arguing...
The motor is a copy with the exception of some bore and stroke variations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MERCSUk153 View Post
Before you go telling me that I am a fanboy and telling me about how I am jumping to Audi's defense and not reading the thread maybe you should take your own advise and read the rest of what I posted saying that the RS4 was junk basically and that I wouldn't touch them. This part of it must have slipped.

sheesh.

I'm not calling or suggesting you are a "fanboy" you kinda did that by yourself. I didn't say you didn't read the thread. I asked you if you even read my post before replying to it. I see you have now. None of what I wrote about pertains to the RS4. Therefore I replied to you based on your reply from what I originally posted. Nothing slipped by so please don't try to twist the point or redirect the subject. Which is Audi copied the n63, you can leave or live with it.
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      03-24-2012, 07:14 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MERCSUk153 View Post
What was the first BMW with a turbo motor than? We are talking production car.

The 1973 BMW 2002 Turbo, more than 1500 of them were produced.
How can you make a statement that Audi has been making turbo motors before BMW and you don't know when BMW produced their first turbo motor ?




Quote:
Originally Posted by MERCSUk153 View Post
You think it was a faulty pump? LOL for 4+ years you think they couldn't fix a faulty pump?

Yes it was the high pressure fuel pump that caused the issues with the 335 motor.
What do you think it was ?
Please go back and read my previous post.
It was 4+ years ago that the N63 V8 twin turbo motor, (the one VW/Audi copied) was introduced. The N63 didn't have a faulty pump issue. I think you may be confused, maybe misread my previous post or both.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MERCSUk153 View Post
You make a statement that you know patents and then you don't want to back that statement with how Audi can copy the design? Can you tell me how Audi could have copied the design with basically no changes like you said and not infringe on any patents BMW may have on the design?

Does the BMW N engine also have cylinder deactivation?

First of all, you bought the BMW patent statement to the table and you did so without actually knowing if there is a patent or patents on the tech of issue.

As far as how Audi could copy a design based on a patent, (which we don't know exist) depends on if the patent(s) is a design or utility patent(s) and the content(claims) in the issued patent(s). I don't know if any of the BMW N engines has cylinder deactivation or not. Does Audi, it really doesn't matter, GM has been doing cylinder deactivation off and on since the late 80's or early 90's. What does that have to do with our post, is that more conversational misdirection or a genuine question ?

By the way, you haven't told me why you think the Edmunds article was a joke.
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      03-25-2012, 03:25 AM   #27
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All those words and you said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but you did prove that you are a "vw/audi fanboy/troll".

Strike 1: Now, all of a sudden since audi didn't produce a turbo motor before BMW, (as you originally stated) it doesn't matter who did it first. You wanna talk,(conversational misdirection) about everything except the issue at hand. The issue being the N63(the one audi copied) not the N54. The N63(the one audi copied) is problem free.

Strike 2: You went on to furthered proved that you are up vw/audis butt by calling an article you didn't like "a joke",(your words) because of "one line",(again, your words) that you feel makes your brand look bad. Did you even read the article ? All the babbling and conjecture in your entire post and you still haven't answered the question as to why exactly the article was a "joke" to you, aside from the statement that the motor is a BMW borrowed(copied) design. I gave you ample opportunity to prove me wrong about you and you completely confirmed the question, is Mercsuk153 a fanboy troll ?
YES, yes he/she/it is.

Strike 3: Then "one"(you) babbled on assuming and tip toeing around about more of "ones"(your) patent ignorance and cylinder deactivation, (which has been around for decades from another brand altogether, not Bentley) as if it were some new exciting and ground breaking tech. Stop talking and posting about patents because you dont have a clue.

For the record, I am a BMW fanman and a effin' BMW troll in a BMW forum, yeah, thats right, I said it and I say that having driven or owned just about every brand thats come to the US over my many years.

As for you, you are wasting my time you're responses are utterly ridiculous, incoherent and you seemingly are not comprehending what I am posting and what you are reading. You can respond to this if you'd like but you are on my ignore list therefore I won't see nor respond to you anymore and don't pm me sucka.

Before you look for "truth in engineering" you need to first find truth because there is none in you.
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      03-25-2012, 05:51 AM   #28
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BMW is and was a turbo pioneer, exactly what Judah stated, the 2002 OBRUT, the 'Turbo'Prototype(which looks like a M1 a bit)

The 1973 2002 Turbo, Van Halen couldn't have said it any better:


And for example this engine from 1983, a 'basic' 4 cylinder turbo engine.
It was placed in the Brabham BT52 and became world champion in the Formula one that year, producing up to 1,500HP.



But no BMW doesn't have experience with turbo engines, not at all....
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      03-25-2012, 06:38 PM   #29
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A) Your username speaks miles
B) Your grammar is horrific
C) You are from Canada......

ENOUGH SAID
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      03-26-2012, 05:33 AM   #30
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BMW is an engineering company, hence the 'M' for Motoren in the middle of their name. BMW was late with for example their first turbodiesel(1984/85 E28 524td)vs Audi/FIat and Mercedes, but boy, those were high tech at that moment andthe new ones still are the best diesels in the world.

The first German V12 after decades came from BMW in the 1986/87 750i.
The beste German V12 is alo a BMW, it's in the McLaren F1. And not by chance.

In 2006 I bought a 335i 6MT N54. One of the best cars I ever had. Smooth and fast. No problems whatsoever and it was from the first modelyear. Can you imagine? I can.

In 2000 I bougth an Audi S3(1.8Turbo) and the engine more or less exploded after 20,000 miles....And the Dutch distributor was very helpful too. NOT.
That's why I drive BMW from 2001 on....

Tell me someting about engines. In the bread and butter category and way above, BMW is nr 1.

If we are talking QUANTITY(experience?) instead of QUALITY for example the Toyota Corrolla(name) is the mostly sold car ever(decades). And therefor it's the best? Don't think so.

Cheers
Robin

EDIT: I fell in love with the 80's Quattro rallycars/Group B when I was at Highschool but then came Peugeot/Lancia/Ford/Leyland with their idea of a AWD rallycar.... and Audi kept their excellent sounding inline 5 turbo engine. It was situated upfront/upfront almost above the frontbumper. That's what I call engineering....LOL

Last edited by Robin_NL; 03-26-2012 at 05:41 AM.
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      03-26-2012, 06:06 AM   #31
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But no worries, I'm a car addict in general, not only a BMW fanboy.

I'll give Audi(Auto Union) some credit:


The 1937 type C. The Bergrennwagen had double tyres(not this one in the picture) on each sides of the rearaxle to get more traction. They couldn't produce broader/wider (slick)tyres yet.
A 45 degree V16(!!!), 520BHP and weighing about 750kgs(as I recall) and off course rearwheeldrive and way before Ferrari a mid engine(!!!!). One of my favourite Grand Prix cars.

Some info:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/8...on-Type-C.html
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