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      04-03-2012, 05:58 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
NO ... I dont think so, because of the added weight !

I think they they would use an special firing order for the cylinders like they had done it with the S85 V10 ... same result like an counter-rotating balancing shaft, but no weight increase and the reason for the different sound !
Quite possible. Is the firing order between the BMW S85 5.0l V10 90 different from the Lexus 1LR-GUE 4.8l V10 72?

On the other hand the added weight can be compenssed by the fact that the block is nearly half the lenght of an I6, so it can be mounted even further back.
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      04-03-2012, 06:02 AM   #90
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I like to add my 2 cents to this thread mind you I am originally from Germany and having received my engineering training in Germany prior to immigrating to this great part of the world here in Canada I think slightly different when it comes to cars.

This being said and having purchased my first BMW in 1987 (a 535is at that time just one step below the then ///M5). That engine in the 535is is a Straight-6, the 182 HP was all I needed at the time. This car has since been handed down the family tree and is still in fine shape as a daily driver today.

BMW and the ///M Division take great care in design and engineering. As all of you Fellows here well know the engineering and design process starts out with a basic 3 Series when the ///M Division Team go to work. When they are done they replaced nearly 50% of the parts and modified nearly 80% of the components before a ///M badge is affixed to this car. This includes the engine, after all the engine is the heart of the final package. Some time back there was a thread when it was rumoured that BMW's ///M Division is working on a brand new engine. I don't much believe in rumoured information since it so often contains a mixture of truth and untruth, passed around in the written word or verbally.

Now I've mentioned that I have been driving BMW's for the past 25 years and having seen the constant improvements over the years and the fine cars the ///M Division creates and constantly improves before they are released for production I like to predict the following.
  • There will be a brand new engine in the new ///M3 Generation when finally released.
  • If this engine will be Inline-6 or a V6 is yet unclear, however I think it will be a Inline-6 Turbocharged.
  • My hunch is this engine will be M-DCT as a standard and a MT as an option.
  • I have another hunch and that is that a team of the ///M Division is also working on a V8 to be offered as a option for the Fellows that like to take there toy to the track.
  • Finally only once the testing on the track and in real life conditions has been completed will we all know what the next ///M3 Generation will have in sore
I know whatever it will be in the end, it will be great handling and sounding car, that is the way the ///M3 was born originally in 1986 and evolved over time and will keep on evolving.

I have earmarked this thread and shall revisit it in 2014 to see what the final facts are

Meanwhile you all travel safe now hear
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Last edited by Mr. ///M3 RD; 04-03-2012 at 06:15 AM. Reason: EDIT added ---> Finally only once the testing ....
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      04-03-2012, 06:13 AM   #91
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I highly doubt it will be an N/A V6... That wouldn't exactly be targeting efficiency! Will most definitely be a turbo motor..
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      04-03-2012, 07:12 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • I have another hunch and that is that a team of the ///M Division is also working on a V8 to be offered as a option for the Fellows that like to take there toy to the track.
The M4 is surely going to participate in GT4 and GT2. I don't know what the regulations are, but BMW Motorsport can make engines seperately for racing purpose and a limited edtion for homologation puprose. Some special engine like the P54, based on the S54 and used on the 320i WTCC or the P60 used in the M3 GT-R. We could see the same thing happening again.
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      04-03-2012, 07:23 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
The M4 is surely going to participate in GT4 and GT2. I don't know what the regulations are, but BMW Motorsport can make engines seperately for racing purpose and a limited edtion for homologation puprose. Some special engine like the P54, based on the S54 and used on the 320i WTCC or the P60 used in the M3 GT-R. We could see the same thing happening again.
Exactly ... ^^^ .... that is what my hunch is based upon let's keep our fingers crossed.

Cheers, Rolf-Dieter
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      04-03-2012, 07:47 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • There will be a brand new engine in the new ///M3 Generation when finally released.
I also think they would bring an totally new engine and something BMW never had until now ... only because it would make sense and its the technical best solution for an real lightweight sports car like the F80 M3 seems to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • If this engine will be Inline-6 or a V6 is yet unclear, however I think it will be a Inline-6 Turbocharged.
Here I disagree with you ... I dont think they are developing an complete new I6 ... thats meen high cost for nil performence advantage ... if they decides for an I6, than only because of further cost reductions and that could only meen an N55 derivate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • My hunch is this engine will be M-DCT as a standard and a MT as an option.
Since most sold E9x are M-DCT car this would make much sense ... M-DCT standard and the 6MT as "no costs"-option for the few MT-fans, which would buy this inferior car for the same price they could also get the much better DCT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • I have another hunch and that is that a team of the ///M Division is also working on a V8 to be offered as a option for the Fellows that like to take there toy to the track.
As Levi said ... could be possible but only for racing issues not for street use ... only (very little!) chance for an V8 in an F80 street car could be an interim-engine to bring the F80M3 into the market earlier than expected and hold the complete new engine back until the F82M4 debuts and than switch also the M3 to the new engine.

Greets Uli_HH
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      04-03-2012, 08:13 AM   #95
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definitely sounds more like an I6 than a V6
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      04-03-2012, 08:18 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and 1 View Post
definitely sounds more like an I6 than a V6
Ask 10 people and 5 will say V6, and the other 5 tend to I6.
From the video that is not clearly hear out.
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      04-03-2012, 08:22 AM   #97
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hmmmm...poll!
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      04-03-2012, 08:35 AM   #98
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ok poll is posted! let the voting begin

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671267
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      04-03-2012, 11:59 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • There will be a brand new engine in the new ///M3 Generation when finally released.
I also think they would bring an totally new engine and something BMW never had until now ... only because it would make sense and its the technical best solution for an real lightweight sports car like the F80 M3 seems to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • If this engine will be Inline-6 or a V6 is yet unclear, however I think it will be a Inline-6 Turbocharged.
Here I disagree with you ... I don´t think they are developing an complete new I6 ... thats meen high cost for nil performence advantage ... if they decides for an I6, than only because of further cost reductions and that could only meen an N55 derivate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • My hunch is this engine will be M-DCT as a standard and a MT as an option.
Since most sold E9x are M-DCT car this would make much sense ... M-DCT standard and the 6MT as "no costs"-option for the few MT-fans, which would buy this inferior car for the same price they could also get the much better DCT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • I have another hunch and that is that a team of the ///M Division is also working on a V8 to be offered as a option for the Fellows that like to take there toy to the track.
As Levi said ... could be possible but only for racing issues not for street use ... only (very little!) chance for an V8 in an F80 street car could be an interim-engine to bring the F80M3 into the market earlier than expected and hold the complete new engine back until the F82M4 debuts and than switch also the M3 to the new engine.

Greets Uli_HH
Remember the N55 is near end of life. It is not the newest generation engine family AND M introduced the 63tü before AG did. M5/M6 before 7 LCI. The M3 will feature an engine we have not seen yet based on the cylinder scalable architecture- same family as in the i8. What you are hearing will in base form will be in BMWs sooner than later.
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      04-03-2012, 12:03 PM   #100
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If 7DCT is standard and 6MT is free cost option, I'll be disapointed, because it will mean they did make the MT good enough. Porsche is the only EU brand that offers good MT, japanese makers are the best at it, S2000, MX-5, BRZ, are some of the best manual transmissions on the market. I hope the MT will be good, like in 1M, and have short-shifter kit standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Remember the N55 is near end of life. It is not the newest generation engine family AND M introduced the 63tü before AG did. M5/M6 before 7 LCI. The M3 will feature an engine we have not seen yet based on the cylinder scalable architecture- same family as in the i8. What you are hearing will in base form will be in BMWs sooner than later.
The N54 is really close to the end, 7 Series F01/F02 LCI is coming where the N54 will be replaced by the N55, 1 Series M E82 will stop production and we'll have the M135i F20/F21 with N55, and the Z4 E89 is also soon getting facelift, and the Z4 sDrive35is will be replaced by the Z4 M35i also powered by the N55. So the N55 is not that close to its end unlike the N54. But we may see the new N56 have its premiere in the 435i F32 that we'll see at Geneva 2013.

Last edited by Levi; 04-03-2012 at 12:08 PM.
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      04-03-2012, 12:07 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter Peter View Post
  • I have another hunch and that is that a team of the ///M Division is also working on a V8 to be offered as a option for the Fellows that like to take there toy to the track.
The M4 is surely going to participate in GT4 and GT2. I don't know what the regulations are, but BMW Motorsport can make engines seperately for racing purpose and a limited edtion for homologation puprose. Some special engine like the P54, based on the S54 and used on the 320i WTCC or the P60 used in the M3 GT-R. We could see the same thing happening again.
You sound sure BMW will be competing in GT racing.... I wouldn't bet on it. Unless there are significant rule changes they won't be. I recently explored this topic elsewhere. They have automatic bids for the intercontinental cup this year and they are not entering any races. With the M card going forced induction it changes homologation and many other variables. It is extremely cost prohibitive.

This is BMWNAs last year running in the ALMS with the current cars and there is no future development program.

BMW will run in VLN (anything goes) and DTM. BMW is building customer cars for GT3/GT4/WTCC and that is basically it and DTM.

DTM is going to be stateside and there are rumors of endurance races as well. DTM is much more cost efficient and gets similar coverage.
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      04-03-2012, 12:11 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
1. Yes sound is REALLY important to a lot of folks. An aftermarket exhaust set up can help but it can't turn a FI sounding car into a NA high revving sound.
2. This car does not sound very good to me.
3. Yes the production car will sound different than this one, for sure.
4. I'd be willing to bet all of you posting that you can tell what the engine configuration (I vs. V) is by the sound could not actually do that in a blind aural test among Is and Vs.
Could not have said it better myself.
+1
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      04-03-2012, 12:11 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
You sound sure BMW will be competing in GT racing.... I wouldn't bet on it. Unless there are significant rule changes they won't be. I recently explored this topic elsewhere. They have automatic bids for the intercontinental cup this year and they are not entering any races. With the M card going forced induction it changes homologation and many other variables. It is extremely cost prohibitive.

This is BMWNAs last year running in the ALMS with the current cars and there is no future development program.

BMW will run in VLN (anything goes) and DTM. BMW is building customer cars for GT3/GT4/WTCC and that is basically it and DTM.

DTM is going to be stateside and there are rumors of endurance races as well. DTM is much more cost efficient and gets similar coverage.
No, I don't know anything about BMW Motorsport. But I can't believe they won't have any GT2, GT3 and GT4 cars anymore. To officially race only DTM and WTCC is just too little, especially BMW no more being in F1 or LMP.
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      04-03-2012, 12:15 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
I would put a cent at present to some concept.
Even employees of the M-GmbH tell everything-except the truth!
Thus speaks one half of the V6, the other half of the R6 ...

It is interesting but just a rumor that has surfaced:
Latest BMW insider info, 3 sources.

Here we go:
Dubbed "S54b42 '(e46 m3 had notice S54b32)
N / A 3.6l inline 6
~ 466hp @ 6700rpm-7700rpm
~ 434hp @ 8300rpm redline
~ 390tq from 4300rpm all the way up to 7500rpm
~ 350tq @ 8300rpm redline
performance exhaust

Fuel Economy
27mpg highway
20mpg city

M3 F80
3180lb dry
Carbon roof
Carbon hood and trunk
6 piston front 4 piston rear, drilled or slotted rotors
14:5:1 steering (same as e46 m3 csl and comp. Package)
Race tuned, adjustable suspension
19 inch BBS wheels, e46 csl wheels by inspried but "new / updated" look
Michelin PSS optional Pilot Cup tires Sprot


Whether it really is true, I can not say ....
...but as of the release-date I can tell you something:
It will not take more like 12 months!
I'm so confident that I will place a 80k bet saying this is TOTAL RUBBISH. Not even close to what the next ///M3 will be.

Cheers,
e46e92
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      04-03-2012, 12:19 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
I'm so confident that I will place a 80k bet saying this is TOTAL RUBBISH. Not even close to what the next ///M3 will be.

Cheers,
e46e92
That was 1st April fools.
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      04-03-2012, 01:51 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
No, I don't know anything about BMW Motorsport. But I can't believe they won't have any GT2, GT3 and GT4 cars anymore. To officially race only DTM and WTCC is just too little, especially BMW no more being in F1 or LMP.
Well get use it, mapezzul is correct. Rule changes will have to be made in order for BMW to participate in a series like ALMS. That won't happen, the next generation M3 will not be in ALMS. This was quite obvious some time ago, the ramp down in endurance racing is already happening. BMW have an automatic invite to 24 Hours Le Mans, but they are not showing up this year. They are focusing on DTM, which is a rather large undertaking.
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      04-03-2012, 04:28 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Well get use it, mapezzul is correct. Rule changes will have to be made in order for BMW to participate in a series like ALMS. That won't happen, the next generation M3 will not be in ALMS. This was quite obvious some time ago, the ramp down in endurance racing is already happening. BMW have an automatic invite to 24 Hours Le Mans, but they are not showing up this year. They are focusing on DTM, which is a rather large undertaking.
I know nothing about this so I have to believe Mapezzul. But if this is really true, then I can say to race only DTM is very weak. DTM is not known world wide, only in Germany and BMW's largest market is in America.
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      04-03-2012, 04:39 PM   #108
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I'm loving the way the front end is looking at the moment. More of an evolution from the E46 than the E9x was.
If the coupe is labelled "M4" I will debadge and replace it with the proper M3 badge.
Or just get a sedan.
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      04-03-2012, 05:26 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I know nothing about this so I have to believe Mapezzul. But if this is really true, then I can say to race only DTM is very weak. DTM is not known world wide, only in Germany and BMW's largest market is in America.
US DTM announcement coming as soon as negotiations end....

Backed by NASCAR, covered live on Speed. Offering endurance races and city races. Cheaper to run and more competitive than even ALMS.

2013 was the planned year for US but there is some rumblings that US based brands want in (Corvette/Mustang) and that is delaying things a bit. I'll find out more in two weeks...

ALMS continues to shoot themselves in the foot- I covered the series for two years and the politics is unbelievable. They make decisions then change them and leave the teams left to pick up the pieces. The reason why Speed dropped them and they are now being covered by ESPN ABC in parts and mostly online is because SPEED was loosing money on the production end and asked ALMS to pick up some of the tab- they said no. Hard series for people to follow when you can't watch it live or in its entirety.

Tell me how the racing series founder- PANOZ can ask for a rewrite of the rules to accommodate his cars and it be granted but other brands can't. How can a series that claims to be "Green" not allow turbo charging or direct injection in this day in age? Corvette for years raced itself in GT1, BMW built their cars for a class that never even came to fruition then had to change the entire setup for LeMans right before the race as they ACO changed its mind as well. Corvette can't run DI... the only brand making out is Ferrari and of course Porsche which has its own class (BMW builds GT3 and GT4 cars but ALMS says NO).

BMW will still race at the 24 hours of the 'Ring and other VLN races in Europe as well as privateers campaign in the Z4 GT3 throughout the world but unless something changes in terms of rules and cost structure BMW is done with ALMS/ACO. There is no market gain- MB is not selling any less cars without ALMS and not any more cars now with an F1 team... they bought into F1 to make a profit on the IPO.
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      04-03-2012, 05:34 PM   #110
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Alright, let's try to keep the discussion somewhat related to the thread topic, the F80 M3. Thanks everybody.


Best regards,
south
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