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      06-01-2012, 08:36 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar
Please get over it people.
Stop acting like a V8 belongs in an M3. There have been multiple M3 generations, and only one generation had a V8.
Agreed. Who cares really. As long as the new m3 performs and lives up to its expectations that's all that matters. If all you want is v8 symphony go buy an American muscle car

And for those that will refuse to buy the new m3 due to it being badged as an m4, wake up it's only a badge to keep all the models separated and in line with each other. I'm sure it's for a good reason, a company like BMW know what they're doing.
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      06-01-2012, 08:46 AM   #266
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It is here not about the V8. The principle is already history, and not a V8 in the M3 is more likely, probably be clear to everyone.
The only question is how the six-cylinder engine could be built ...

This time is an interesting statement from an engine developer of that manufacturer:
"So, watch out: BMW has always placed on the R6, because the smoothness was at the forefront as an engineer for engine technology, I can you but say the following. The biggest problem of R6 is that with ever-increasing power, the load block increase and crankshaft exorbitant. This is simply the length. biggest problem is the crankshaft. by their length, they must be condemned designed to be massively and so it is very difficult! and what is the greatest enemy of a sports engine? right weight! the heavier the crankshaft, the more sluggish revs up the engine! This might be for a silky AG-engine is a great feeling, but not for a sporty M-engine! Therefore, the F80, the crankshaft to about half of those of, for example 335i truncated and still housed six cylinders are! the engine is indeed a tad wider, but much shorter ... and winds up like hell!
And if you have not understood what I want now to say to you, then I can help you even more ... "
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      06-01-2012, 12:27 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPWR View Post
Agreed. Who cares really. As long as the new m3 performs and lives up to its expectations that's all that matters. If all you want is v8 symphony go buy an American muscle car

And for those that will refuse to buy the new m3 due to it being badged as an m4, wake up it's only a badge to keep all the models separated and in line with each other. I'm sure it's for a good reason, a company like BMW know what they're doing.
In that sense also turbo charger never excited in m3 as well it was always an NA- regarding buying an american muscle y don't u go and buy a japanese evo where its all about small engines and huge turbos,
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      06-05-2012, 04:55 PM   #268
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I too feel a little pinch thinking that the M3 will be going turbo. But I cannot find any rational argument for it. Looking back at motor-sport history, there is a huge heritage of great turbo cars: F-1, Sport prototype, Champ car, WRC, etc.. so there goes the argument about turbos not being pure in terms of tracking or motor sport.

I think what disturbs the most, is the thought of BMW simply adapting a "standard" engine to an ///M application (like on X5M, X6M, 1M and F10 M5). Historically, the ///M division have built their own engines. And what great engine they were , winning awards year after year. While I understand that previous ///M engines have started somewhere from a "standard" baseline, the transformations were extensive.

So if ///M builds their own engine (mostly) from the ground-up for the new M3/M4, I guess I'll be OK with it, turbo or not.

If it is simply an adapted N54 or N55, then meh ... it leaves me a little cold.
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      06-06-2012, 03:39 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I too feel a little pinch thinking that the M3 will be going turbo. But I cannot find any rational argument for it. Looking back at motor-sport history, there is a huge heritage of great turbo cars: F-1, Sport prototype, Champ car, WRC, etc.. so there goes the argument about turbos not being pure in terms of tracking or motor sport.

I think what disturbs the most, is the thought of BMW simply adapting a "standard" engine to an ///M application (like on X5M, X6M, 1M and F10 M5). Historically, the ///M division have built their own engines. And what great engine they were , winning awards year after year. While I understand that previous ///M engines have started somewhere from a "standard" baseline, the transformations were extensive.

So if ///M builds their own engine (mostly) from the ground-up for the new M3/M4, I guess I'll be OK with it, turbo or not.

If it is simply an adapted N54 or N55, then meh ... it leaves me a little cold.
+1

Thatīs it ... and why I prefer the M-GmbH developed V6 BiTurbo so much over an simple adapted AG N55 as engine for the coming F80/F82.
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      06-07-2012, 09:06 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I too feel a little pinch thinking that the M3 will be going turbo. But I cannot find any rational argument for it. Looking back at motor-sport history, there is a huge heritage of great turbo cars: F-1, Sport prototype, Champ car, WRC, etc.. so there goes the argument about turbos not being pure in terms of tracking or motor sport.

I think what disturbs the most, is the thought of BMW simply adapting a "standard" engine to an ///M application (like on X5M, X6M, 1M and F10 M5). Historically, the ///M division have built their own engines. And what great engine they were , winning awards year after year. While I understand that previous ///M engines have started somewhere from a "standard" baseline, the transformations were extensive.

So if ///M builds their own engine (mostly) from the ground-up for the new M3/M4, I guess I'll be OK with it, turbo or not.

If it is simply an adapted N54 or N55, then meh ... it leaves me a little cold.
If I recall, a majority of their engines have been based on mainstream engine blocks. The S54B32, one of the most award winning engines in BMW/M's history was based on the M54. I don't understand why people like to skew M's history based on a few recent engines.
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      06-07-2012, 11:49 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelloss View Post
If I recall, a majority of their engines have been based on mainstream engine blocks. The S54B32, one of the most award winning engines in BMW/M's history was based on the M54. I don't understand why people like to skew M's history based on a few recent engines.
Read my post again. I did say that older ///M engines were based from standard engine but were extensively transformed. The S54 might be based on the M54 series, but the block was iron rather than aluminum, bored and stroked to 3.2L, new head and valve train with double vanos, individual throttles, etc... that to me that is an extensive tranformation.

However, the engine in the 1M is almost a straight carry over from the Z4 sdrive35is.

That is my point.

PS, don't quote the engine in the US spec E36 M3 as it wasn't a real M engine either...

Last edited by CanAutM3; 06-08-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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      06-13-2012, 08:46 AM   #272
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...I think V8 is the best engine of the world...any sounds like that around?!?!??!
NOOOO!! :-)
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      06-21-2012, 06:07 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Marry View Post
The biggest problem of R6 is that with ever-increasing power, the load block increase and crankshaft exorbitant. This is simply the length. biggest problem is the crankshaft.
Didn't think of that. It could be a possible reason, but what about the new +700 PS V12 engines ? An not to forget the Toyota Supra with its TT I6 making monster numbers.
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      06-21-2012, 06:50 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Read my post again. I did say that older ///M engines were based from standard engine but were extensively transformed. The S54 might be based on the M54 series, but the block was iron rather than aluminum, bored and stroked to 3.2L, new head and valve train with double vanos, individual throttles, etc... that to me that is an extensive tranformation.

However, the engine in the 1M is almost a straight carry over from the Z4 sdrive35is.

That is my point.

PS, don't quote the engine in the US spec E36 M3 as it wasn't a real M engine either...
+1
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      06-21-2012, 12:33 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Didn't think of that. It could be a possible reason, but what about the new +700 PS V12 engines ? An not to forget the Toyota Supra with its TT I6 making monster numbers.
Yes thats right, the problem could be solved be reinforcing the crankshaft and its housing ... but thats meen increasing the engine weight ... and an heavy and long I6 isnīt the best option for an front engine sportscar, because it creates understeer or must put weight at the back of the car to improve the balance ... and so you get even more weight.
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      06-21-2012, 01:17 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
Yes thats right, the problem could be solved be reinforcing the crankshaft and its housing ... but thats meen increasing the engine weight ... and an heavy and long I6 isnīt the best option for an front engine sportscar, because it creates understeer or must put weight at the back of the car to improve the balance ... and so you get even more weight.
A reinforced crankshaft is forged, it does not increase weight, it increases cost. On the other hand who knows ? There must also be a reason why the new GT-R switched from I6 to V6. The GT-R community also did not approve that move, but now the GT-R is Prosche benchmark.
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      06-21-2012, 01:34 PM   #277
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I still think they should have modify and stick with the V8 unit, I dont think the I6 will be able to cope with the power required to make the M3 stand out in todays market.

Just look under the bonnet of the Porsche, and Nissan gt. The M3 as its work cut out and to win it will lots of power and good aerodynimic.


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      07-16-2012, 11:03 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPWR View Post
Agreed. Who cares really. As long as the new m3 performs and lives up to its expectations that's all that matters.
You can't please all the people all the time. Some people just aren't happy unless they are complaining.

The next M3 is going to be more expensive, have a smaller engine, and probably be rebadge to a new name.... and it'll probably sell better than any previous generation ever did.... so what, as long as it performs better, is comfortable, and reliable.....
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      07-16-2012, 12:17 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leyton2 View Post
I still think they should have modify and stick with the V8 unit, I dont think the I6 will be able to cope with the power required to make the M3 stand out in todays market.

Just look under the bonnet of the Porsche
...and you'll find a small displacement flat 6. I assume we're talking about the 911, right? Or are you comparing the M3 to a Panamera?
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      07-17-2012, 04:22 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer
...and you'll find a small displacement flat 6. I assume we're talking about the 911, right? Or are you comparing the M3 to a Panamera?
I was thinking the same thing.
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      07-17-2012, 04:38 AM   #281
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Yes both the 911 and GTR are quite happy with just 6 cylinders, performance wise they are quite close as well for flat vs V.
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      07-18-2012, 02:44 AM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
A reinforced crankshaft is forged, it does not increase weight, it increases cost. On the other hand who knows ? There must also be a reason why the new GT-R switched from I6 to V6. The GT-R community also did not approve that move, but now the GT-R is Prosche benchmark.
Quite possibly it could be that getting the RB26DETT to pass emissions was geting harder, just like it was for Toyota's 2jzgte and their Lexus Division's 2jzge in the IS300---each were phased out due to harder to pass emissions tests.
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      07-18-2012, 06:50 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Quite possibly it could be that getting the RB26DETT to pass emissions was geting harder, just like it was for Toyota's 2jzgte and their Lexus Division's 2jzge in the IS300---each were phased out due to harder to pass emissions tests.
Emissions are in any case the main reason why good engines and good cars are disappearing. If not the Honda K20 and BMW S54 would still be on the market, and the M3/M4 would have kept its S65.

I don't care about emissions, just don't cut down the forests, but the problem is that fuel price rises.
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      07-18-2012, 10:57 AM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Quite possibly it could be that getting the RB26DETT to pass emissions was geting harder, just like it was for Toyota's 2jzgte and their Lexus Division's 2jzge in the IS300---each were phased out due to harder to pass emissions tests.
It was probably easier to simply modify the VQ engine rathern then put further R&D into an engine for *one* low-production model (sound familiar?).

If the N55-->S55 is equivalent to VQ35-->VR38, I'll be ok with this.
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      07-19-2012, 02:03 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Emissions are in any case the main reason why good engines and good cars are disappearing. If not the Honda K20 and BMW S54 would still be on the market, and the M3/M4 would have kept its S65.

I don't care about emissions, just don't cut down the forests, but the problem is that fuel price rises.
I wish that they continued development of the 2jzge---and that is the reason why I'm keeping my IS300. It was basically the last application of the engine, and the first gen IS.
Quote:
It was probably easier to simply modify the VQ engine rathern then put further R&D into an engine for *one* low-production model (sound familiar?).

If the N55-->S55 is equivalent to VQ35-->VR38, I'll be ok with this.
I agree
And apparently, Nissan will be using Mercedes V6's as the Nissan's are notoriously rough runners
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      07-19-2012, 06:09 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
I wish that they continued development of the 2jzge---and that is the reason why I'm keeping my IS300. It was basically the last application of the engine, and the first gen IS.
I had first generation IS200 with NA 2.0l I6. Not a 2JZ, but I loved it.
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