BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-19-2012, 02:56 PM   #45
conradb
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 (ZCP/DCT/ZCV)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: GMT -8

Posts: 432
iTrader: (0)

lol at all these people about losing the feeling

You drive a power steering assisted car to begin with. Go pull the fuse on the power steering and then go get a real feel for the car's suspension.

I hope the power steering will be easily tunable, as I actually enjoy it being harder to turn. I turn on M mode in my car often just so I get that more rigid stability in the wheel at high speeds on the bendy highways around here in LA. Feels good.
conradb is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 03:18 PM   #46
SCOTT26
Brigadier General
 
SCOTT26's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Dark Silver 30 Jahre
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

Posts: 3,030
iTrader: (0)

To answer the question?
Yes....
__________________
XS
SCOTT26 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 04:04 PM   #47
Levi
Brigadier General
 
Levi's Avatar
 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Germany

Posts: 3,206
iTrader: (0)

EPS is good on the 991, and 981, but not as good as the EHPS in the 997 and 987. Also the GT86 EPS is good, but still not as the EHPS as in the MX-5. The best EPS to date is found in the LFA. So it is possible, if BMW can get the EPS right on the M3 F8X, it is ok.
Levi is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 06:37 PM   #48
BMWBoss
Lieutenant
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 466
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
The M3 is the icon of BMW...trust me, they will not do anything to screw it up...especially introduce a half-assed steering.
BMWBoss is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 07:02 PM   #49
xspeedy
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives:
Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 265
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWBoss View Post
The M3 is the icon of BMW...trust me, they will not do anything to screw it up...especially introduce a half-assed steering.
If BMW took the risk to bastardize the steering in the bread and butter 3er, they will have no problem ruining the M3. BMW has strayed so far from core values that even the M brand is no longer sacred.

X5M, seriously? The original M brand managers would have laughed it out of the office.

BMW - The relentless pursuit of profits.
__________________
xspeedy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 07:16 PM   #50
Kayani_1
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Kayani_1's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92/E60
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston

Posts: 1,551
iTrader: (1)

I am a bit apprehensive because I love the feel of BMW hydraulic steering setups.

I have driven multiple new generation 5 series and do not care for the EPS steering feel. Heard that BMW had tweaked them since for the all new F30 3 series. I have not driven the new F30 3 series. So I can't really comment on its EPS steering feel.

Anyways, from the reviews I have read over the Porsche EPS system. It is claimed to be one of the best. However, the reviewers still thought it was not as great as the hydraulic setup found in Porsches.

I hope if BMW is planing on using EPS steering rack in the next M3. Then they really work on the feel and feed back of the EPS steering system. Because as of right now they are sub-par in feel and feed back in my opinion.
__________________
nick named "BAD 3"
Cobb tune, RennArt catback non resonated exhaust, M-sport steering (racing alcantara & retrofit M3 paddle shifters.), Alpina B3 transmission flash, AFE powered sealed CAI, LED angels, E93 M3 Front Swaybar, 235/35/19x9 front & 275/30/19x9.5 rear. When in doubt...flat out
Kayani_1 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 07:20 PM   #51
Kayani_1
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Kayani_1's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92/E60
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston

Posts: 1,551
iTrader: (1)

Yes, up to this point F10 M5 and all new M6 are Hydraulic setups for the sake of better road feel and feed back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Meh, we heard it with hydraulic assisted steering, brakes and clutches, this was inevitable. Is the F10 M5 still hydro? As already stated, Porsche has made serious progress with EPS, and it's certainly possible to build a bad hydraulic rack, or a good electric one.
__________________
nick named "BAD 3"
Cobb tune, RennArt catback non resonated exhaust, M-sport steering (racing alcantara & retrofit M3 paddle shifters.), Alpina B3 transmission flash, AFE powered sealed CAI, LED angels, E93 M3 Front Swaybar, 235/35/19x9 front & 275/30/19x9.5 rear. When in doubt...flat out
Kayani_1 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 08:24 PM   #52
JulieDriving
Female driving enthusiast :P
 
JulieDriving's Avatar
 
Drives: Bimmer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 2,308
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I'm a little fearful.

The regular 5 series steering is pretty criticized.

While I didn't think the new F30's steering was bad or anything (I thought it was fine), I definitely prefer my E92's.

The current m3 has already received criticism for its steering (too light, not as much feel as the Porsches, etc.)

While I do have a lot of confidence in the M Division, I don't have a lot of confidence in the face of limited time for them to perfect it... especially since the gap they have to bridge appears larger than what Porsche had.
__________________
2013 M3 coupe (Azurite Black, Black, Piano Black)
+ miata nut (2 miatas) + Mk6 GTI 5-door hatch (our mini-SUV )
JulieDriving is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 10:36 PM   #53
Fraggy
Brigadier General
 
Fraggy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 e90
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Diego

Posts: 3,310
iTrader: (11)

I drove an F30 Modern Line for 4 days as a loaner. Even in sport mode, the steering sucks compared to previous BMWs. I've owned an E36, two E46s, and just purchased my 3rd E90, so I think I've got a good frame of reference on how BMWs drive.

I wish you a lot of luck and pray they don't fuck it up for a 1/10 of a gallon better fuel economy.
__________________
Step--Premium--Sport--Nav--20% Tint--Blacklines--18" Beyern Mesh--Michelin Super Sports--Bastuck Exhaust--M3 Steering Wheel--BMW Performance Springs--Koni--M3 Front/Rear Sways--
Fraggy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 11:00 PM   #54
Kayani_1
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Kayani_1's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW E92/E60
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston

Posts: 1,551
iTrader: (1)

Yes, meaning you are aware that they are going with EPS steering.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
To answer the question?
Yes....
__________________
nick named "BAD 3"
Cobb tune, RennArt catback non resonated exhaust, M-sport steering (racing alcantara & retrofit M3 paddle shifters.), Alpina B3 transmission flash, AFE powered sealed CAI, LED angels, E93 M3 Front Swaybar, 235/35/19x9 front & 275/30/19x9.5 rear. When in doubt...flat out
Kayani_1 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 11:05 PM   #55
raffyg2388
Private
 
Drives: e90 328i I6
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: socal.

Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)

:-(
raffyg2388 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-19-2012, 11:23 PM   #56
WillInDenver
Lieutenant
 
WillInDenver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F10 535 xDrive MSport
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Denver

Posts: 558
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated ///M
You have no idea what the wheels are doing in a EPS equipped car. Steering is vague and uncommunicative. I hope the BMW engineers fine tune it properly, or this may very well be the end. Then again, the M3 is BMW's bread and butter. My brain keeps telling me that there is absolutely no way that BMW will mess this up.
The M3 is not BMW's bread and butter. The 328 is.
__________________
-Will
2013 535i xDrive M-Sport | 2005 545i Sport (Retired and missed) | 2001 X5 3.0 Sport (Retired)
WillInDenver is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 12:59 AM   #57
M3 Adjuster
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 1988 M3 gone .. 1M HERE!!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

Posts: 3,413
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance
If they can do it well... then do it.

BMW won't half ass this and if it is not 100% perfect by the time the car launches, it won't be in the M3.
:Word:
__________________
Lone Star BMW CCA Chapter president, Chief Driving Instructor
M3 Adjuster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 01:00 AM   #58
M3 Adjuster
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 1988 M3 gone .. 1M HERE!!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx

Posts: 3,413
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy
I drove an F30 Modern Line for 4 days as a loaner. Even in sport mode, the steering sucks compared to previous BMWs. I've owned an E36, two E46s, and just purchased my 3rd E90, so I think I've got a good frame of reference on how BMWs drive.

I wish you a lot of luck and pray they don't fuck it up for a 1/10 of a gallon better fuel economy.
I guess all those MINIs being sold must be horrible too?
__________________
Lone Star BMW CCA Chapter president, Chief Driving Instructor
M3 Adjuster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 01:27 AM   #59
boostaholic786
Lieutenant
 
boostaholic786's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 JB4 G5 ISO RB's FBO+40%E85
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: irving tx

Posts: 557
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Yes.

On the surface, this sounds like bad news for the next M3. But BMW M spends millions of $$ to track and test these models to live up to (and hopefully surpass) enthusiasts' expectations. I'll give them benefit of the doubt, and looking forward to driving one myself.

I like my M3 steering, but I have always felt that BMWs have a bit too much weight in the steering at times. Maybe a finely tuned EPS system can be even better than the best we have today?


I think your right on the point that BMW spends million of bucks testing not only the track but real world driving in probably every possible scenerio. BMW's are known for being tight and heavy and a more "feel the road" experience and the M department knows that all the people want to have that heavy "grip" so to say. That is what driving a BMW is about. I do however think that they are going to come up with the perfect balance because that is what the M3 is about... If its electric, it better be very very good otherwise there will be issues I have enough trust in M that they will def have it sorted out, one way or another.
__________________
A/W E92 335i M-sport with JB4 G5 ISO/ E40 WEDGE PERFORMANCE BACKEND FLASH, Alpina TCU flash for AT/Switch-tronic +AR Downpipes, Stett gen 1 intake, Wagner-Tuning FMIC+RB Turbo setup/ RB PCV Valve+ Akro exhaust+60% E85/93 mix,+ HRE P40S wheels, KW coilovers, M3 sways,+BMW performance CF Mirrors, BMW Performance CF deck lid spoiler,+ CF interior trim, p3 vent boost gauge,+ LUX angel eyes (11.73@119mph on street tires) NO METH!
boostaholic786 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 02:45 AM   #60
ptt127
Private
 
Drives: 2011 335i
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posts: 55
iTrader: (0)

While it's obvious that personal taste plays a big role in one's definition of good steering feel, there are some great observations here.

My definition of steering feel can be broken into 4 components:

1) Precision: It should go where you point it
2) Loading characteristics: As cornering forces build, it should give you some feedback by way of increasing effort. Then, as the limit approaches and the front ties start to slide, it should go light again. Anyone who remembers driving a car with unassisted steering knows this sensation- it can feel very light when going straight but loads the harder you corner.
3) Road feedback: Some call it kickback and hate it. I personally like a little bit over bumps and bots dots just to give a sense of connection between man and machine.
4) Effort: it shouldn't be so light that you can't sense any of 2) or 3).

Of all the cars I've owned or spent a lot of time driving, my benchmarks are a pair of BMWs- an E30 325iX and an E90 328i. They had better feel than the two unassisted cars, a '93 MR2 and an '89 Civic Si.

The biggest disappointment is my '04 S2000, precise but completely lacking 2) and 3)- effort is always the same. As another poster mentioned this car is so visceral in every other way that it deserves better steering feel.

Most pleasant surprise is my 2009 Fit Sport. Light effort but surprisingly good 1), 2), and 3), especially since it is EPS. Really adds some unexpected joy to the daily commute in this cheap sh!tbox

My '99 Z3 Coupe and '88 Prelude were pretty good but not standouts.

That leaves the F30 which I have only test driven. It's extremely light and first impressions of 2) and 3) were not good, but I'd have to give it time. I just wish they hadn't changed it so much from the E90.
ptt127 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 02:56 AM   #61
BMWPWR
Second Lieutenant
 
BMWPWR's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ///M

Posts: 223
iTrader: (0)

Lots of debating going on here. People don't forget it's an m3. It will only get better
BMWPWR is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 08:53 AM   #62
US///M3
Major
 
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China

Posts: 1,266
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xspeedy View Post
If BMW took the risk to bastardize the steering in the bread and butter 3er, they will have no problem ruining the M3. BMW has strayed so far from core values that even the M brand is no longer sacred.

X5M, seriously? The original M brand managers would have laughed it out of the office.

BMW - The relentless pursuit of profits.


+1
When the 335i came out, a lot of E46 M3 owners traded their M cars for the turbocharged 6.
I'm not seeing a lot of E9X M3 owners getting the boring F30.
__________________
BMW R1200RT
All purpose, No pretense.

I'm back.
US///M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 09:41 AM   #63
ES_TRADER
Colonel
 
Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC

Posts: 2,474
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [5.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [4.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [5.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
many people say that Porsche got their EPS right on the new cars but fail to remember that BMW is not Porsche so i dont think its really comparing apples to apples. even the porsche 6mt is far better than bmw ever was..theyre just 2 different cars companies and 2 different classes of cars
ES_TRADER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 09:53 AM   #64
ATS
Captain
 
ATS's Avatar
 
Drives: TTRS - APR Stage I
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Miami, FL

Posts: 846
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance View Post
If they can do it well... then do it.

BMW won't half ass this and if it is not 100% perfect by the time the car launches, it won't be in the M3.


Just like they didn't half-ass the new M6 spoiler???
ATS is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 10:05 AM   #65
Rich@GTBPerformance
Bimmerpost Sponsor and BMW Performance Guru
 
Rich@GTBPerformance's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 JZB M3, 2000 750iL
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NJ, Right outside of NYC

Posts: 4,228
iTrader: (19)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATS View Post


Just like they didn't half-ass the new M6 spoiler???
Okay, I'll bite.

Why don't you enlighten me on what you think is half assed about the M6 spoiler?
__________________

Your Home For Premium BMW Aftermarket Parts
www.gtbperformance.com | sales@gtbperformance.com | Facebook | 973 429 2839
Rich@GTBPerformance is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-20-2012, 10:27 AM   #66
Fraggy
Brigadier General
 
Fraggy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 e90
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Diego

Posts: 3,310
iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy
I drove an F30 Modern Line for 4 days as a loaner. Even in sport mode, the steering sucks compared to previous BMWs. I've owned an E36, two E46s, and just purchased my 3rd E90, so I think I've got a good frame of reference on how BMWs drive.

I wish you a lot of luck and pray they don't fuck it up for a 1/10 of a gallon better fuel economy.
I guess all those MINIs being sold must be horrible too?
I have never driven a mini, so I really can't say. But after six BMWs I think I have a general idea and most of them felt pretty similar overall. The F30 does not drive like any other BMW. While it has great mechanical prowess, it lacks the connection and feedback to the driver. The steering does make it feel like a cheaper car than it really deserves to feel.

I am sure that one of these years, they will get this all sorted out, or we will all just get used to that new feeling and forget about what cars used to drive like.

It's funny, on the fourth day of the loaner car, the F 30, started to smoke out of the trunk, apparently something was shorting out. So I called the dealership and they sent me a new loaner car, an E90. neither car had sports package, but the E 90 immediately felt like a familiar BMW.
__________________
Step--Premium--Sport--Nav--20% Tint--Blacklines--18" Beyern Mesh--Michelin Super Sports--Bastuck Exhaust--M3 Steering Wheel--BMW Performance Springs--Koni--M3 Front/Rear Sways--
Fraggy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2013 bmw m3, 2013 bmw m4, 2013 m3, 2013 m4, 2014 bmw m3, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 electric power steering, 2014 m3 forum, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, f80, f80 forum, f80 forums, f80 m3, f80 m3 electric power steering, f80 m3 eps, f80 m3 forum, f80 m3 forums, f80 m3 sedan, f82, f82 coupe, f82 forum, f82 forums, f82 m3, f82 m3 coupe, f82 m3 forum, f82 m4, f82 m4 coupe, f82 m4 forum, f82 m4 forums, f83 m3, f83 m4, m forum, m forums, m3 f80, m3 f80 forum, m3 f80 forums, m4 forum, m4 forums

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:17 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST