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      07-01-2012, 03:04 PM   #23
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There are plans to establish a further range of M Performance models with the 3er Sedan and Touring , The X3 and forthcoming X4 with a diesel that mirrors the more high end 5er and X5 and X6.

They are looking at four cylinder diesel for these models in order to have one chapter after the other. In early 2013 the BMW 6er will receive the M650d ,
allowing BMW to have a full line of M Performance vehicles. The 4er will surely follow after the initial M340d , X3M40d and X4M40d.

The lower range cars to begin with will be the M135i , which will be followed with the M235i and X1M35i , the latter two being the only M Performance cars coming to the USA.

In regards to the M3 it is not a diesel.

In some reports they go on about the next M3 being CFRP intensive when it actually will not be. The M4 Coupe will get a CFRP roof but the M3 Sedan is too late to take advantage of the CFRP developments after BMWi - The first BMW car will of course be the next generation 7er.
The M3 has been in development for around two years with still some time to go before the car is to the engineers- perfect.

Subsequent variants of the next M3 might follow through with more CFRP features but the standard car will not. It will be lighter than before but not CFRP lighter with many of the body panels being aluminium and reinforced plastic. The key secret is an all new aluminium chassis that goes a long way to reduce the weight of the car this gets bonded to the steel-structure which will use BMW's press-hardened steel production process.

The M3 will follow previous M3 models by being a pre-production Concept car at the next Geneva Autoshow in March 2013.
As stated previously , the power ceiling for the standard car is 450BHP with Precision being a higher priority than just numbers.
The ceiling gives BMW M room to manouvere in regards to progression , later.

The engine is an extensively reworked and re-inforced N55 Six Cylinder with the option of a six-speed manual and seven speed DCT from the M5 but with altered ratios to suit the more lighter and faster M3.
The M4 inherits the same in genetics but the standard CFRP roof will provide the M4 with a lower centre of gravity.

The talking point of the next M3 wil of course being the adoption of electro-mechanical steering which BMW M say is a key benefactor in the all-new M3's precision. The steering which has been completely reworked to be compatable with an M car such as an M3 is said to be more direct to live up to its repuation as an M3 with the EMS being a top focus for M's engineers.

The overall apperance of the M3 and M4 conforms to the M understated look which takes its cues from the latest M6. With unique kidney grilles and functional aerodynamic styling.

The Geneva 2013 M3 Concept car wil be just that a concept car, no concrete details will be given until launch in the Summer, with the World Premiere taking place at the IAA , Frankfurt in September 2013. European customers will take delivery in November , Asia in January , UK in February and the US in the Spring of 2014. With the M4 Coupe and M4 Cabrio launching at the 2014 Paris autoshow.

Another benefactor will of course be BMW's upcoming X4 which is almost destined to become an M car given the popularity of the X6M and of course demand for a smaller performance concept especially in markets where the X6M is BMW M's best selling product. The X4M will be the only mid-sized M offering with All-Wheel-Drive.

Although The M3 is currently the priority at M. The M4 which will be seen for the first time later this summer in both Coupe and Cabrio are moving forward too. With both expected to hit the Ring and BMW's specialist test tracks in Germany and France.

Although work has commenced on the "Downsized" M, The M2 or the replacement for the most admired 1er M Coupe.
It is known as the "Downsized" M because BMW M are investigating the concept of a completely reworked N20 based four cylinder in terms of the successor to the 1M offering the same recipe as before but with lower weight but still offering the entry to M ownership with the key of precision rather than outright power.
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      07-01-2012, 03:20 PM   #24
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Really interesting post Scott! Thanks.

Not sure what you meant regarding the M Performance diesels for 3/4 series, did you say they will be 4 cylinder? As the 330d is already out and retains 6 cylinders...
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      07-02-2012, 08:33 AM   #25
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Thanks for that post, SCOTT, so many juicy tidbits in there.

Good to hear that they are still looking at a pumped up N20 for the M2. Along with an F83 M4, I definitely have my sites on a F23 M2.
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      07-02-2012, 10:04 AM   #26
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Don't see a great deal of good news in that post Scott
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      07-02-2012, 12:03 PM   #27
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The more I read that the less it makes sense...

M135i top of the standard range = 6 cylinder
M550d & X5 and. X6 M50d all = 6 cylinder
330d and 335i current range toppers = 6 cylinder

Why or even how would the next one up sub-M range topping 3 series be a 4 cylinder diesel? Is it even possible to get 300+ bhp from a 4 cylinder diesel??

Have I misread/missed something, anybody?
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      07-02-2012, 05:25 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post

The engine is an extensively reworked and re-inforced N55 Six Cylinder with the option of a six-speed manual and seven speed DCT from the M5 but with altered ratios to suit the more lighter and faster M3.

The talking point of the next M3 wil of course being the adoption of electro-mechanical steering which BMW M say is a key benefactor in the all-new M3's precision. The steering which has been completely reworked to be compatable with an M car such as an M3 is said to be more direct to live up to its repuation as an M3 with the EMS being a top focus for M's engineers.
You must talk to the same people
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      04-10-2013, 06:34 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
The more I read that the less it makes sense...

M135i top of the standard range = 6 cylinder
M550d & X5 and. X6 M50d all = 6 cylinder
330d and 335i current range toppers = 6 cylinder

Why or even how would the next one up sub-M range topping 3 series be a 4 cylinder diesel? Is it even possible to get 300+ bhp from a 4 cylinder diesel??

Have I misread/missed something, anybody?

Just read something saying the 335d has been confirmed for the summer as F30 and F31...

Exciting stuff. Still nothing concrete on the M Performance 3.
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      04-10-2013, 07:34 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Really interesting post Scott! Thanks.

Not sure what you meant regarding the M Performance diesels for 3/4 series, did you say they will be 4 cylinder? As the 330d is already out and retains 6 cylinders...
Nice inaccurate post, as March has been and gone along with any sign of the M3.
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      04-10-2013, 06:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbmw6
Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Really interesting post Scott! Thanks.

Not sure what you meant regarding the M Performance diesels for 3/4 series, did you say they will be 4 cylinder? As the 330d is already out and retains 6 cylinders...
Nice inaccurate post, as March has been and gone along with any sign of the M3.
Well let us hope some of it is right... M3 cannot be far away now so surely the rest of the 3 range will arrive not long afterwards. I still do not believe for a second the M performance 3, 4, x3 and x4 will be 4 pot diesels... I could see maybe a pumped up N20 engine if they went the petrol route. i expect it'll be an I6 diesel as we know diesel sells really well in eu and uk... Big diesels far outsell petrol models in other ranges e.g x5 and x6
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      04-11-2013, 08:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbmw6 View Post
Nice inaccurate post, as March has been and gone along with any sign of the M3.
Plans change. Sometimes multiple paths are discussed and explored, and what seemed likely at first becomes less likely as further developments occur. I don't necessarily think that your belittling sarcasm is appropriate.

We'll see M3 news sometime this year, probably more likely as the E9x M3 is officially wound down and sent off for good. Give it a few more months.
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      04-11-2013, 10:48 AM   #33
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I know, I know --- let the flame begin, but you'll see

Straight 6 Turbo Diesel

All I can say is -- it's an inside source and they are sure.

Personally, after driving some of BMW Diesels in Europe = I don't care .. I think it will be great.

450hp/450 lb.ft. torque:thumbsup2:
Translation, "My friend works at a BMW dealership cleaning the bird shit off of their used cars and he said this to me"
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      04-11-2013, 01:14 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ScarecrowBoat View Post
Translation, "My friend works at a BMW dealership cleaning the bird shit off of their used cars and he said this to me"
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      04-12-2013, 03:16 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Plans change. Sometimes multiple paths are discussed and explored, and what seemed likely at first becomes less likely as further developments occur. I don't necessarily think that your belittling sarcasm is appropriate.

We'll see M3 news sometime this year, probably more likely as the E9x M3 is officially wound down and sent off for good. Give it a few more months.
Point taken
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      04-14-2013, 01:56 AM   #36
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I can not even imagine why someone would want to buy a diesel M3... americans, it seems it's true that everyone want what doesn't have. I'm bored of listening diesel tractor noise everywhere here.

If you want to make a sports car it does not make sense to use a heavier, dirtier, less reliable, less revy, worse capable, worse refined and usable engine, does it? Huge turbolag, agricultural noise and totally ephemeral power for torque figures and fuel saving? Use your gearbox man and let the I6 petrol sound properly and be refined, for god sake. If you don't understand that using the car just between 1800 and 3200 rpm is not nice, it's simply that the M3 is not your car.

I also have a 6 cylinder diesel engine, but having one is not an intelligent reason for prefering it over a good petrol engine.

Last edited by Nando87; 04-14-2013 at 02:11 AM.
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      04-14-2013, 04:49 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nando87 View Post
I can not even imagine why someone would want to buy a diesel M3... americans, it seems it's true that everyone want what doesn't have. I'm bored of listening diesel tractor noise everywhere here.

If you want to make a sports car it does not make sense to use a heavier, dirtier, less reliable, less revy, worse capable, worse refined and usable engine, does it? Huge turbolag, agricultural noise and totally ephemeral power for torque figures and fuel saving? Use your gearbox man and let the I6 petrol sound properly and be refined, for god sake. If you don't understand that using the car just between 1800 and 3200 rpm is not nice, it's simply that the M3 is not your car.

I also have a 6 cylinder diesel engine, but having one is not an intelligent reason for prefering it over a good petrol engine.
Which 6 cylinder Diesel do you have?. I have had many and none are dirty/noisey and none have turbo lag as such to be a problem ( 6 pot BMW's anyway).
The 2013 M5 I had for 4 days had turbo lag
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      04-17-2013, 07:37 AM   #38
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First off Diesels are great for fuel consumption and even if it does have a little turdbro lag its still less moving parts in the engine to worry about and its a VERY solid foundation. I would buy a diesel without hesitation as long as performance was the same.

A friend of mine has a passat and he gets 40 MPG with driving 85 everywhere and upwards of 50 if he does 70...impressive I tell you with a good amount of HP from the TDI.
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      04-17-2013, 09:12 AM   #39
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First off Diesels are great for fuel consumption and even if it does have a little turdbro lag its still less moving parts in the engine to worry about and its a VERY solid foundation. I would buy a diesel without hesitation as long as performance was the same.

A friend of mine has a passat and he gets 40 MPG with driving 85 everywhere and upwards of 50 if he does 70...impressive I tell you with a good amount of HP from the TDI.
Your friends passat may be nice for mileage and decently quick under 60 mph, but much more than that and she'll fall flat due to having 140hp.

I would buy a diesel as well if performance was the same - but it won't be. There's a reason every performance car has a petrol motor.
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      04-17-2013, 09:29 AM   #40
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M Performance TwinPower Turbo Inline 6-Cylinder Diesel Engine w/three Turbochargers

I guess some of you guys have not heard of the M550d, a performance diesel version of the 5er. The same engine is also offered in the 750d.

I think IF BMW would offer this engine in a 3er(or 4er) - it would be killer. M350d anyone? Btw... most BMW's in Europe are diesels. More than 50% of BMW sold here are diesels


BMW M550d xDrive Sedan:

3.0L six diesel engine with three turbos
280 kW/381 hp at 4,000 – 4,400 rpm
Max. torque: 740 Nm (546 lb-ft) at 2,000 – 3 000 rpm,
Specific output: 93.6 kW/127.3 hp per litre of displacement.


Acceleration [0 – 100 km/h (62 mph)]: 4.7 seconds,
top speed: 250 km/h (155 mph), (V-Max limited)
average fuel consumption: 6.3 litres/100 kilometres (44.8 mpg imp), ~37 mpg (US)
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      04-17-2013, 09:41 AM   #41
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BMW will not put that engine into the F30. It would kill M3 sales. Even more if they put that engine into F80 chassis. Not going to happen, just like Porsche will never put Carrera S or GT3 engine into Cayman.
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      05-02-2013, 04:16 AM   #42
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I'm a little bothered by BMW's recent decision to throw the "M" moniker around onto everything - especially in FRONT of the model name. M550d, M135i, M650d, etc etc. Such a sell-out move. To me, the letter "M" should be reserved for true M cars - M3, M4, M5, M6. Call it a sport version, but not M. If anything, put the M at the END of the name. This is just BMW cashing in on its M reputation, at the expense of diluting it. Not even AMG throws around their moniker as much as BMW is doing now. I certainly hope the new M variants don't come with the traditional M logo and colors. That would just be too much.

The reality is that BMW M is transforming/succumbing thanks to market pressure from AMG whose model was to take the same engine and throw it into all their various cars and call it an AMG. BMW's model was to make bespoke M engines built from the ground up from each car - engines they would actually use (albeit slightly modified) in their proper race cars. Now, BMW M buckled to that pressure and has abandoned the bespoke engine model, and is doing what AMG did - taking the same engine and throwing it into everything (example - X5M, and X6M, M5, M6 - all sharing essentially the same engine). Not to mention throwing the M logo onto everything. It makes the M brand less prestigous - not to mention less identifiable with true motorsport. There's an argument to be made that BMW M's decision to turbo their M engines is also driven in part to compete with AMG.

It's a bit sad really.... to me at least.

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      05-02-2013, 04:39 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I'm a little bothered by BMW's recent decision to throw the "M" moniker around onto everything - especially in FRONT of the model name. M550d, M135i, M650d, etc etc. Such a sell-out move. To me, the letter "M" should be reserved for true M cars - M3, M4, M5, M6. Call it a sport version, but not M. If anything, put the M at the END of the name. This is just BMW cashing in on its M reputation, at the expense of diluting it. Not even AMG throws around their moniker as much as BMW is doing now. I certainly hope the new M variants don't come with the traditional M logo and colors. That would just be too much.

The reality is that BMW M is transforming/succumbing thanks to market pressure from AMG whose model was to take the same engine and throw it into all their various cars and call it an AMG. BMW's model was to make bespoke M engines built from the ground up from each car - engines they would actually use (albeit slightly modified) in their proper race cars. Now, BMW M buckled to that pressure and has abandoned the bespoke engine model, and is doing what AMG did - taking the same engine and throwing it into everything (example - X5M, and X6M, M5, M6 - all sharing essentially the same engine). Not to mention throwing the M logo onto everything. It makes the M brand less prestigous - not to mention less identifiable with true motorsport. There's an argument to be made that BMW M's decision to turbo their M engines is also driven in part to compete with AMG.

It's a bit sad really.... to me at least.

-esquire
Sympathise and agree, it's pressure from as you say the likes of AMG, but the whole "M Car" has been moved to "Grand Tourer" mode. This has been IMO "market driven".
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      05-30-2013, 02:43 AM   #44
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Well after a long test drive in the 2013 M5, I have decided that "life is too short" and I have Ordered one; LCI in MCB with extended Silverstone all extras for September?October time.
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