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      07-02-2012, 10:07 PM   #45
nez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703
no doubt this is the f80 or f82 prototype... the wheels, tires...
H/w that doesn't mean it's concept-ready or show-ready underneath, it could just be one of those preproduction mules with a little more engineering for those execs to scrutinize.
You're wasting your see through vision on these forums mate. I'd be camped outside a modeling agency if I had that ability.
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      07-02-2012, 10:47 PM   #46
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And I wonder who starts the rumor....lol
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      07-02-2012, 10:47 PM   #47
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BMW M has yet to let us down. Everyone needs to have some faith and trust that they will come through. This thing is going to be a beast!!
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      07-02-2012, 10:55 PM   #48
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BMW M has yet to let us down. Everyone needs to have some faith and trust that they will come through. This thing is going to be a beast!!
+1 Would be very surprised if it isn't awesome!
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      07-02-2012, 11:09 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nez View Post
You're wasting your see through vision on these forums mate. I'd be camped outside a modeling agency if I had that ability.
LOL.... good point bro..
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      07-02-2012, 11:29 PM   #50
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It was spotted with bigger/ better brakes already, the engine is in the "fine tuning" phase of development, so no worries for the moment that the next model will not keep its crown
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      07-02-2012, 11:37 PM   #51
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this is like the 1//M tease all over again.
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      07-02-2012, 11:38 PM   #52
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Talking

Have you seen the one at the back of the Museum!
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      07-02-2012, 11:46 PM   #53
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I've been told you can have 2 twin-scroll turbo on an Inline-6.
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      07-03-2012, 12:02 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTECaddict View Post
I don't know what planet you live on, but all M engines have been modified "vanilla" engines, other than the S85 V10 and S65 V8. So a ground up "M" engine is actually the exception rather than the rule.
Truth. People seem to have gotten so complacent with the S65 that anything less than 8 cylinders is deemed "week".
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      07-03-2012, 12:12 AM   #55
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but I love my E90!!! grrr
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      07-03-2012, 12:22 AM   #56
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BMW needs to take notes from Vishnu. A good tune with a big single should be putting down around 550 RWHP and around 500 foot pounds... Is anyone taking odds on n54 vs n55 for the new M3 considering BMW put the n54 in the 1M and the 335is over the n55? Unless they did some major upgrades to the n55 and if so, I doubt they would keep the n55 engine code. Any thoughts?
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      07-03-2012, 12:40 AM   #57
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I seriously doubt the veracity of some of this. What will be common with the n55, the block alone or a bored out version of the block with larger displacement?? Probably almost all internals would be different. It is terrible marketing and the car has a much poorer chance of success if it is called an revamped n55 or if that is actually what it is. There is simply no way they will lightly tweak the n55 change the boost and call it a day. As stated earlier the n55 share a ton with the n54 and that engine is too old to be reusing that much of it.

That being said the poster about 3 engines for the entire line up is correct. Well maybe the number is not 3 exactly but this is BMWs plan - massive reuse of common components for many more models. This is their road to much more profits. Pure and simple.

Now at the same time I fully accept the veracity of the rumors that the car will have a relatively low CF content. I've been strongly promoting that argument here in this thread.
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      07-03-2012, 12:43 AM   #58
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I can't wait till 2014!!
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      07-03-2012, 12:47 AM   #59
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hmm. i like my n55 but i dont want another 3 liter i6 even if its built. I was looking forward to V or a higher displacment
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      07-03-2012, 12:59 AM   #60
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IF they re-use the N55 in the new M3 I'd laugh - what a downgrade from the wonderful, purpose-built V8!
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      07-03-2012, 01:05 AM   #61
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I would ask some kids to sneak in and pull the tarp off. Can't get angry over some innocent kids right? Take some photos and rewards the kids with ice-cream. LOL but of course I'm no were near and have no idea which museum.

Revised N55? I hope it revs higher!

A little disappointed that we won't get light weight CFRP parts on the next M3.
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      07-03-2012, 03:23 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3alabama View Post
Everyone who keeps commenting on the fact in the PAST M engines were re-worked non-M engines is missing one HUGE factor-those re-worked engines were done in a manner that they made WAY more power than their non-m counterpart and their power was impossible to match with the non-m counterpart.

Basically if you wanted the performance of an M-engine, you had to buy an M engine. Nothing you could do at the time it came out could make the M54 come anywhere near the S54. This was essentially as good as a purpose built M engine since it was not able to be duplicated.

Now to the present, an N54/55 can already be simply tuned to make 100's of horsepower more than we know the new m3 will make (450ish). You can easily buy a car that is 4 years old already (335 with n54) and spend 500 bucks and have more than 450 crank horsepower.

Not only can you match the horsepower but you also will have very similar delivery of power given the M engine will now be turbo which will eliminate the advantages of the current V8 which can also be "out-tuned" by a n54" but the S65 offers benefits that no tune in the world or mods of the n54 can offer.

So with all that said, when going FI, it is no longer good enough to "re-work" one of their turbo engines which already is capable of over 500 hp. Internals are plenty strong and you really give up nothing over an M engine except for a warranty.

Just like people same times are changing and FI is the future, I feel bwm also has to change and stop re-working the engines into M-engines. The only way they could continue to stand out would be to continue the trend of a new M3 engine. At the very least it needs to be larger displacement of 3.2-3.3 L which will give back its advantage over any 3.0 in terms of offering something that cannot be bought with a 500 dollar tune.

Pure power numbers will always be able to be bought with a few hundred bucks on these turbo engines so bmw needs to give the new m3 engine something that cannot be bought by every man and his dog with a n55 engine.
+1


Look at the difference between BMW M rework and Mercedes AMG rework:

BMW N63
TT V8 90°
4.395
Bore 89.0 mm x Stoke 88.3 mm
450 PS @ 5.500-6.000 rpm
650 Nm @ 2.000-4.500 rpm

BMW S63
TT V8 90°
4.395
Bore 89.0 mm x Stoke 88.3 mm
560 PS @ 6.000-7.000 rpm
680 Nm @ 1.500-5.750 rpm

Mercedes M278
TT V8 90°
4.663 cc
Bore 92.9 mm x Stroke 86.0 mm
435 PS @ 5.250 rpm
700 Nm @ 1.800-3.500 rpm

Mercedes M157
TT V8 90°
5.461 cc
Bore 98.0 mm x Stroke 90.5 mm
571 PS @ 5.500 rpm
900 Nm @ 2.500-3.750 rpm

Mercedes M152
NA V8 90°
5.461 cc
Bore 98.0 mm x Stroke 90.5 mm
421 PS @ 6.800 rpm
540 Nm @ 4.500 rpm
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      07-03-2012, 03:50 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3alabama View Post
Everyone who keeps commenting on the fact in the PAST M engines were re-worked non-M engines is missing one HUGE factor-those re-worked engines were done in a manner that they made WAY more power than their non-m counterpart and their power was impossible to match with the non-m counterpart.

Basically if you wanted the performance of an M-engine, you had to buy an M engine. Nothing you could do at the time it came out could make the M54 come anywhere near the S54. This was essentially as good as a purpose built M engine since it was not able to be duplicated.

Now to the present, an N54/55 can already be simply tuned to make 100's of horsepower more than we know the new m3 will make (450ish). You can easily buy a car that is 4 years old already (335 with n54) and spend 500 bucks and have more than 450 crank horsepower.

Not only can you match the horsepower but you also will have very similar delivery of power given the M engine will now be turbo which will eliminate the advantages of the current V8 which can also be "out-tuned" by a n54" but the S65 offers benefits that no tune in the world or mods of the n54 can offer.

So with all that said, when going FI, it is no longer good enough to "re-work" one of their turbo engines which already is capable of over 500 hp. Internals are plenty strong and you really give up nothing over an M engine except for a warranty.

Just like people same times are changing and FI is the future, I feel bwm also has to change and stop re-working the engines into M-engines. The only way they could continue to stand out would be to continue the trend of a new M3 engine. At the very least it needs to be larger displacement of 3.2-3.3 L which will give back its advantage over any 3.0 in terms of offering something that cannot be bought with a 500 dollar tune.

Pure power numbers will always be able to be bought with a few hundred bucks on these turbo engines so bmw needs to give the new m3 engine something that cannot be bought by every man and his dog with a n55 engine.
I totally agree! Although I still want to see what it looks like - Although I like what the F30s look like - I'm not convinced that they've nailed the design... But am open minded about what BMW can do!
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      07-03-2012, 04:32 AM   #64
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I'm confused. Why are they displaying the F82 and not the F80 when the F32 hasen't been presented yet.
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      07-03-2012, 06:07 AM   #65
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idk why everybody is so upset about the N55 block being used for the f80. It's a fine engine and it will be different. Turbo is the game right now and they will heavily modify the entire turbo system (from intake to exhaust). It will prob have a linear power curve all the way to 7K to mimic a NA feel in the upper revs, yet still have the flat torque curve from 1500-5000 rpm. Remember, this is a production sports sedan/coupe, not a tuner. I guarantee it's not going to be running some crazy high boost number, which will allow the car to make repeated runs.
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      07-03-2012, 07:11 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTECaddict
Quote:
Originally Posted by xspeedy View Post
Another step in the downward spiraling staircase that is "M". Electric power steering and now a modified vanilla engine? Just put an IS label on it. It is not a proper M.
I don't know what planet you live on, but all M engines have been modified "vanilla" engines, other than the S85 V10 and S65 V8. So a ground up "M" engine is actually the exception rather than the rule.
Hence why he e9x and e60 will go down in history as to their uniqueness and awesomeness.

Never again to be duplicated. FTW.

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