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      07-03-2012, 07:30 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I seriously doubt the veracity of some of this. What will be common with the n55, the block alone or a bored out version of the block with larger displacement?? Probably almost all internals would be different. It is terrible marketing and the car has a much poorer chance of success if it is called an revamped n55 or if that is actually what it is. There is simply no way they will lightly tweak the n55 change the boost and call it a day. As stated earlier the n55 share a ton with the n54 and that engine is too old to be reusing that much of it.
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If the rumor about an N55 engine in the M3/M4 is right, than thats are very bad news ... because that would be an decision only about cost issues ... and this meen the engine had to be as cheap as possible - that meen as much as common parts with the AG N55 as possible.

All you need to bring the N55 into the needed hp-numbers is to re-inforce the engine-block and crank-shaft-housing to withstand the higher pressure of an bigger turbossystem, that is needed to reach the hp-numbers. So they would simply put struts on the outstide of the crank-shaft-housing of the N55 to make it stronger ... and then add an turbo big enough to reach the 450hp margin ... this could be an single big TwinScroll-Turbo, two Standard-Turbos or an modified N57-S TriTurbosystem ... I would put my money on the first or the third alternative, because an BiTurbo on an I6 donīt allow the use of BMW favored TwinScroll-Turbosystem. And to reduce the big lag of such an big turbo BMW would use the patented eTurbo-System to drive the turbos at low rpm ... to create an N/A feeling.

This is simply the cheapest way to make an I6 turbo engine with ~450hp and probably the way BMW (not the M-GmbH!) decided to go ... if Scotts Infos are right ... and only marketing would quotes this as an heavily modified N55.

But for me ... "heavily modified" meens, that only the pure engine block layout comes from an standard AG-engine and all other parts are unique to the M-engine ... like it was the case with all M-GmbH engines before the totally unique S85/S65 engines.

Greets Uli_HH
P.S. ... but I have still some hope, that Scott isnīt right in this case and we get again an totally unique M engine in the F8x ... I know an new statement from an internal that we shouldnīt be afraid of the engine and that the current opinion in the internet and statements of an BMW US-official are not right.
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      07-03-2012, 07:31 AM   #68
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      07-03-2012, 08:01 AM   #69
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Actually, what you are looking at in terms of "reworked"
is a strengthened aluminium block with a heavily modified cylinder head , The Induction tech is completely all new as will be BMW's latest bi-vanos variable valve timing.
EfficientDynamics plays a huge part in not only lightweight chassis and body panel technology. Engine Stop-Start , on-demand ancillaries operation and Brake Energy regeneration will give the all-new M3 20-25% better efficiency than the current V8.

The First protypes of the BMW M4 Coupe will be seen later this summer.
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      07-03-2012, 08:36 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
If the rumor about an N55 engine in the M3/M4 is right, than thats are very bad news ... because that would be an decision only about cost issues ... and this meen the engine had to be as cheap as possible - that meen as much as common parts with the AG N55 as possible.

All you need to bring the N55 into the needed hp-numbers is to re-inforce the engine-block and crank-shaft-housing to withstand the higher pressure of an bigger turbossystem, that is needed to reach the hp-numbers. So they would simply put struts on the outstide of the crank-shaft-housing of the N55 to make it stronger ... and then add an turbo big enough to reach the 450hp margin ... this could be an single big TwinScroll-Turbo, two Standard-Turbos or an modified N57-S TriTurbosystem ... I would put my money on the first or the third alternative, because an BiTurbo on an I6 donīt allow the use of BMW favored TwinScroll-Turbosystem. And to reduce the big lag of such an big turbo BMW would use the patented eTurbo-System to drive the turbos at low rpm ... to create an N/A feeling.

This is simply the cheapest way to make an I6 turbo engine with ~450hp and probably the way BMW (not the M-GmbH!) decided to go ... if Scotts Infos are right ... and only marketing would quotes this as an heavily modified N55.

But for me ... "heavily modified" meens, that only the pure engine block layout comes from an standard AG-engine and all other parts are unique to the M-engine ... like it was the case with all M-GmbH engines before the totally unique S85/S65 engines.

Greets Uli_HH
P.S. ... but I have still some hope, that Scott isnīt right in this case and we get again an totally unique M engine in the F8x ... I know an new statement from an internal that we shouldnīt be afraid of the engine and that the current opinion in the internet and statements of an BMW US-official are not right.

I dont know what everyone is so suprised about, this is EXACTLY what BMW did with the new M5 and M6, so why is it a shock that they are using an existing block as the basis for the 'new' engine? If they did it for the top of the line M, no reason not to accept that the M3/M4 get to follow the same path, makes perfect sense in the new world of bmw
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      07-03-2012, 08:36 AM   #71
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      07-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #72
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Man, stop whining about the engine and focus on the good - the car will be LIGHTER than the current version. Now that is a step in the right direction regardless of engine choice. Lets hope its something substantial though and not just 5kg less.
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      07-03-2012, 09:00 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sward View Post
I'm confused. Why are they displaying the F82 and not the F80 when the F32 hasen't been presented yet.
Who said it was an F82? Sound money says it's an F80 under there.

SCOTT26 says 20-25% better fuel efficiency. Sounds good on paper, but still not great. If I get 14mpg right now in my E92 M3, that kind of improvement will only yield me 17-18mpg. I would think an F80 M3 with a revised N55 could get to within 1-2mpg of what the F30 335i can get for fuel economy.
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      07-03-2012, 09:04 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Who said it was an F82? Sound money says it's an F80 under there.

SCOTT26 says 20-25% better fuel efficiency. Sounds good on paper, but still not great. If I get 14mpg right now in my E92 M3, that kind of improvement will only yield me 17-18mpg. I would think an F80 M3 with a revised N55 could get to within 1-2mpg of what the F30 335i can get for fuel economy.
I get 19 mpg on the M3. ( 70% highway )
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      07-03-2012, 09:05 AM   #75
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nice! so where do i sign? im ready to buy now
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      07-03-2012, 09:12 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Agreed on the fact that in the past, M engines are based on "vanilla" engines. But historically they have always been extensively modified, with not much left in common with their vanilla counterpart. Hopefully BMW M will be doing the same thing here and not a carry over like they did in the 1M. IMO, an ///M engine should have the soul of Motorsport, that is what ///M stands for.
I think that we can absolutely bet on that.

Just the fact that power output will got from ~300hp-~320hp to roughly ~450hp suggests there is going to be some major modifications. In fact we already know that the engine will use at least two turbochargers vs. the single dual-scroll turbocharger employed by the N55.

There may yet be a displacement increase to 3.2L also, though that remains complete speculation.

We do know (or are virtually certain) that one M staple of the past - individual throttle bodies per cylinder will not be making a return. Like the new S63Tu, we can expect Valvetronic thorttle control instead.

I also think we will see some innovative induction system employed to reduce turbo lag. Perhaps, just for example, we could see tri-scoll turbochargers being fed from 3 cylinders each. The much rumored electric turbo system may also make an appearance. There are other possibilities such as variable geometry which also eliminates the wastegate.

Still plenty of time to speculate yet.
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      07-03-2012, 09:18 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by IamLegend View Post
This is beyond ridiculous. The entire BMW line will now consist of the N52 engine, the N55 (which is pretty much N54 from 6 years ago with a minor turbo modification), and the S63 engine, and that's it. All the 1,2,3,4,5,6, and 7 series will use a combination of these 3 engines. What happened to those days of actually DESIGNING special engines for the cars?
Off by quite a bit actually.

Here is the BMW engine lineup, circa late next year:

N13B16
N20B20
N55B30
N63B44
N74B60

"S55B3x"
S63B44Tu

The N52 is out of the picture when the E82/E88 die. In addition to what I say above there is the three cylinder in the i8 which will spread to other BMW models (and probably replace the N13 in the process). There is obviously the electric and hybrid drive systems in the "i" models and ActiveHybrid series models. Not to mention all of the great diesels. And finally, expect another new M engine (rumored to be N20-based) for sub-3 RWD M vehicles such as an M2.

Lots going on here. Certainly no less than other recent times for BMW, and in fact with the "i" brand, much, much more.
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      07-03-2012, 09:24 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Hence why he e9x and e60 will go down in history as to their uniqueness and awesomeness.

Never again to be duplicated. FTW.

Cheers,
e46e92
God, if those are the high points, I must not have been paying attention. Two cars that get 10 and 14 city mpg, weigh 3,600 and 4,000+ pounds, no thanks.
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      07-03-2012, 09:25 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Actually, what you are looking at in terms of "reworked" is a strengthened aluminium block with a heavily modified cylinder head , The Induction tech is completely all new as will be BMW's latest bi-vanos variable valve timing.
Thank you SCOTT.

Quote:
The First protypes of the BMW M4 Coupe will be seen later this summer.
Great news. When will we see an F32 with less clothes on?
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      07-03-2012, 09:45 AM   #80
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Hilarious! Only in Germany would a company trust that no one would break the rules and pull that thing off! ; )

The amount of crying in this thread, over a car that will outperform the e9x in every capacity, is so pathetic.
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      07-03-2012, 09:48 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I think that we can absolutely bet on that.
Are you sure(?) ... according to my informations an N55 based solution would be an first off all cheap solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
There may yet be a displacement increase to 3.2L also, though that remains complete speculation.
But ... if based on the N55 ... that meens an heavily stroked engine ... couldnīt beleave if that works well on an high pressure and high reving turbo-engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I also think we will see some innovative induction system employed to reduce turbo lag.
I canīt see any "innovative" induction system, that could reduce turbo lag and fits on an long I6 ... only the TriTurbo-System of the N57-S

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Perhaps, just for example, we could see tri-scoll turbochargers being fed from 3 cylinders each.
Isnīt that not the case with every I6 BiTurbo ... 3 cylinders fed 1 Turbo ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Still plenty of time to speculate yet.
Thatīs right
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      07-03-2012, 09:55 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Thank you SCOTT.



Great news. When will we see an F32 with less clothes on?
Some F32/F33 are now with full electricals meaning standard lights etc but
We should see the FEP F32 around August/September , The 3er GT is now in FEP so Bimmerpost photographers look out!

I was at the manufacturing facility in Munich where they build the prototypes
of new models on a seperate production line away from the production line.

They are about to roll out the X4 and the BMW City Compactive now that the MINI is testing and the discombobulated-MINI ( the internal joke for the 5dr MINI ) which the entire side from the B-Pillar to the C-Pillar (including the rear wheelarch is the rear access door.
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      07-03-2012, 10:06 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
Are you sure(?) ... according to my informations an N55 based solution would be an first off all cheap solution.
I am not sure of anything other than what is stated in the OP. However, common sense suggests that they are not just going to slap a chip tune on an N55 and call it an "S55".

Quote:
But ... if based on the N55 ... that meens an heavily stroked engine ... couldnīt beleave if that works well on an high pressure and high reving turbo-engine.
I strongly doubt an increase from the N55 stroke of 89.6mm. There is still the possibility of a bore increase, though it may not be likely.

Quote:
I canīt see any "innovative" induction system, that could reduce turbo lag and fits on an long I6 ... only the TriTurbo-System of the N57-S
I suspect the great minds working inside the walls of BMW AG have a number of innovative ideas that none of us would have any inkling of.

Quote:
Isnīt that not the case with every I6 BiTurbo ... 3 cylinders fed 1 Turbo ?
But not with specific cylinders feeding individual scrolls. Think of an S63-style charged-pulse system adapted to an I6. It is but one possibility I threw out. You can bet BMW has plenty of others.
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      07-03-2012, 10:25 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I am not sure of anything other than what is stated in the OP. However, common sense suggests that they are not just going to slap a chip tune on an N55 and call it an "S55".
None speaks about an chip tune ... but an re-inforced crank-shaft-house and an new (other) Turbosystem could easily be quoted by the BMW marketing as an heavily redesigned engine and an lightly modified valvetronic as an comlete new (heavily modified) cylinder head ... remember also the 1M engine was quoted as "modified" by BMW ... its only an matter of the point of view!



Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
But not with specific cylinders feeding individual scrolls. Think of an S63-style charged-pulse system adapted to an I6. It is but one possibility I threw out. You can bet BMW has plenty of others.
This very innovative charged-pulse system of the S63Tü only works on V engines, because it needs the cylinder outlets to be close together, so that the way for the energetic exhaust gases are relativ short before the reached the turbo scroll ... totaly impossible in any way to be adopted to an I6, where the distance between the first and the last cylinder is very long !!!
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      07-03-2012, 10:32 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Who said it was an F82? Sound money says it's an F80 under there.

SCOTT26 says 20-25% better fuel efficiency. Sounds good on paper, but still not great. If I get 14mpg right now in my E92 M3, that kind of improvement will only yield me 17-18mpg. I would think an F80 M3 with a revised N55 could get to within 1-2mpg of what the F30 335i can get for fuel economy.
One of the pictures show a handwritten sign that starts with F and ends with 2. My guess i eather F32 or F82 but the logical would be F80
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      07-03-2012, 10:45 AM   #86
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I think its an F32 under there. After a quick round of photoshop forensics, here is what I found. Judge for yourself.

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      07-03-2012, 10:50 AM   #87
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I think its an F32 under there. After a quick round of photoshop forensics, here is what I found. Judge for yourself.

Okay ... but the wheels says clearly F8x !!! For my the roofline looks more than an limo ... sad that the pics ends where the roofline would be interesting.
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      07-03-2012, 10:58 AM   #88
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Okay ... but the wheels says clearly F8x !!! For my the roofline looks more than an limo ... sad that the pics ends where the roofline would be interesting.
I don't doubt that the wheels match the F8X spy car photos. Keep in mind though, that the original concept E90 M3 was presented with CSL style wheels and not final production wheels. Perhaps they are showing this car with sportier wheels - or they haven't decided on final wheels for the F32 yet? Who knows, I'm just as curious as everyone else!

A complete image of the car would certainly help out!
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