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      07-11-2012, 02:59 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by ///MML View Post
It might not be because buyers care about the fuel efficiency, but because the manufacturers care about the figures, whether to bring down the fleet average or for marketing/image/PR.
But the ratio of M3s sold to 3er or 5ers is so low even a major difference in the efficiency of the M3 up or down will not affect the fleet numbers in any significant fashion. PR/marketing/image are relevant, penalties for fleet average not.
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      07-11-2012, 03:01 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Peteypab2133 View Post
I will take a bump in HP over the drop in weight.
Really? Lower weight gives you better straight line speed, better handling and performance in the twisties and better fuel efficiency. Higher hp only gives you one of those and hurts another one. Lower weight makes so much more sense for a car like the M3.
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      07-11-2012, 03:21 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Really? Lower weight gives you better straight line speed, better handling and performance in the twisties and better fuel efficiency. Higher hp only gives you one of those and hurts another one. Lower weight makes so much more sense for a car like the M3.

His sig of a Lancer EVO tells everything about him.
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      07-13-2012, 08:42 AM   #70
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His sig of a Lancer EVO tells everything about him.
Sold that car sir. I also have a 3 series, and a 2013 GT500.

I am about performance. Not sniffing my own farts

And if you look at my other threads, I was in the process of buying a 2011.5 m3 vert and after a few test drives realized it was only a few ticks faster than my E90.. Which is pretty slow. I wanted a big boy car with big boy power.


Oh and my evo only weighed in at 2990 with 1/4 tank of gas making 710 awhp.
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      07-13-2012, 09:12 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peteypab2133 View Post
Sold that car sir. I also have a 3 series, and a 2013 GT500.

I am about performance. Not sniffing my own farts

And if you look at my other threads, I was in the process of buying a 2011.5 m3 vert and after a few test drives realized it was only a few ticks faster than my E90.. Which is pretty slow. I wanted a big boy car with big boy power.


Oh and my evo only weighed in at 2990 with 1/4 tank of gas making 710 awhp.
I'm not against it. Just saying you are not the type of guy that would drive a Miata. The first M3 E30 was in some way a practical MX-5. Now the M3 is becoming a sort of GT-R, because that is what most want, including you yourself. I have nothing against it, but that was not the main pupose of the original M3. Times are changing, today most judge cars by their 1/4 mile times. The drivers cars, including the current M3 E92, are disappearing.
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      07-13-2012, 09:16 AM   #72
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I'm still holding out hope that the M2 will be closer to the E36 and E46 M3's. Of course I've also been patiently waiting for a Z2 for, oh, about a decade now.
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      07-18-2012, 02:10 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
It would be a huge achievement to deliver this weight. But power to weight would not be surprising at all.

I don't generally think Automobile Magazine is a good reference for solid rumors, perhaps others can clarify that claim.

Some discussion:

1. The current EU spec 6MT E92 M3 has an unladen weight of 3649 lb (1655 kg) subtracting 220 lb from that is 3429 lb which is way over 3300 lb. Thus they have some basic facts incorrect here. The unladen weight of the F32 335i is 3329 lb. Either way sub 3300 lb seems very optimistic given the large number of components which must be heavier in "upgrading" from the base model to the M model. It would take some very expensive materials and technology to overcome the certain weight gains (engine, suspension, brakes, wheels, tires, subframes, differential, transmission, etc.) This thread has a variety of guesses and educated guesses on the cars weight and none get to (or sub) 3300.

2. Power to weight. Power to weight numbers would be reasonable with this very low weight and relatively lower power (than thus far rumored).
Current M3 Coupe: 8.81 lb/hp.
From article: 420 hp, 3300 lb: 7.86 lb/hp
11% improvement

Lets compare to the M5
F10 5: 7.66 lb/hp
E60 M5: 7.96 lb/hp
Only a 4% increase

Some reasonable F30 M3 power and weight guesses:

3500 lb, 450 hp
7.78 lb/hp
That is within 1% of the 7.86 lb/hp figure!

3600 lb, 450 hp
8.00 lb/hp

Thus the 7.86 figure of the article is definitely "in the ball park". I would certainly rather have the lighter, lower power solution as it would make it a much better car. I just don't see how they can achieve this without some really expensive (cost prohibitive) materials.
3. Power per liter. The current Porsche turbo has 500 hp from 3.8l. That is 132 hp/l. The GT-R has as 545 hp (stated, have not kept up as to how much if any the car is under rated. The initial GT-R was clearly under rated by about 50 hp) from the same 3.8l. That is 143 hp/l. 420 hp from 3.0l would be in between the two at 140 hp/l. Certainly not out of the realm of a production vehicle.

The great thing is that BMW absolutely can (and likely will, as the article mentions) wait to see where other competitors might be coming in in terms of power and weight and simply change a few lines of code, dialing in the desired (i.e. competition besting power level). Just like the M-DCT from the E92 M3 (and all subsequent DCTs...) the software is critically important.
BMW will probably have ~130 hp per liter from the M3/4 turbo engine.

Lets also not forget that what Porsche has in output from the turbo is far, far from what they can push. The GT2 RS is a 3.6 liter with 620 hp, or 172 hp per liter. They could easily make 600+ hp from that same 3.8 liter with conservative tuning. Their cars dont need all the hp though as they put power down far better than any other manuf. in the industry.
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      07-18-2012, 03:11 PM   #74
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That's lighter than an e46 if true. anything under 3500 will be a great advance.
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      07-19-2012, 09:01 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peteypab2133 View Post
I cannot imagine the car dropping 220+ pounds. That is A LOT of weight. I remember yanking my evo apart and cutting bolts shorter and removing crash beams and still only got about 95 pounds out of the car. With standards from the government, if the car loses weight I would be impressed.

Remember, with cheaper parts comes louder road noise, humming and other annoying things that the M3 currently does not have.

If they do manage to lose 220+ pounds, they would have to use MORE carbon fiber... More CF = more $$ I will take a bump in HP over the drop in weight.
I would rather have both. lol For the money though I would rather have a 75-80k m3 that is 3500lbs with 470+hp and one that is 90k-95k+ and 3300 lbs. I must admit money is a factor to me.
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      07-19-2012, 09:44 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardg View Post
I would rather have both. lol For the money though I would rather have a 75-80k m3 that is 3500lbs with 470+hp and one that is 90k-95k+ and 3300 lbs. I must admit money is a factor to me.
I would love both too! The GTR does just fine being a bit over weight.. I think with proper suspension (the M3 will have it) and a well tuned engine (the M3 will have it as well) I think it can overcome the weight issues.

The Zl1 does pretty good around the track and it weighs over 4000 pounds.

Money is a factor with these cars, and if they start hitting $90,000 you would be a fool to not get the GTR or a ZR1 or Viper.
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