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      07-19-2012, 09:26 AM   #111
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I am actually interested to see what BMW does with the upcoming M3/4...it feels like there are so many directions they could take. As long as it performs well, and it most probably will, then it will be a great car in its own right, just like the ones that have come before it.

The only thing I wonder about, as has been mentioned previously, is how big these cars seem to be getting...I like the relative size of the E46 M3 or the 135/1M...just feels right. The E9X Ms were starting to push it for me, and I am guessing the F M3/4 will be even bigger. Perhaps BMW has made the decision to make the M3 just a smaller M6 (aka more luxury based) and leave the frills out of the 1M/M2 (more enthusiast based) to suit the aims of different customers...we shall see...

Personally, I am even more excited about the 1M/M2, if it actually happens. The M3/4 is likely to be priced into another world, like 60K+ just to start, which is fine, but makes it less "reachable" for people. I really wanted a 1M last year, but wasn't able to get one...hope BMW doesn't do that again with the production numbers...it almost seems as though the baby M is taking the philosophical place of the E30/36/46 M3s....
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      07-19-2012, 09:28 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant Man View Post
To the OPP,

I spoke to BMW UK's Product Manager a few weeks ago and the engine configuration had not been released. Have you got any proof to back up your claim or is it just an educated guess?

Additionally I hope you are wrong on the steering being electric. BMW have never really understood how to make the hydraulic system have great feel like Lotus for example. And having tried the new electric steering on X3 and F28 it provides absolutely zero feel. The new M5 still uses hydraulic btw.

What is clear and has been for a number of years is that BMW M need to focus on removing the weight for improving driving dynamics, performance and lowering CO2 and not follow AMG down the ridiculous road of massive weight, huge power and a multitude of electronics to control it.

It seems that BMW M is finally learning. If it achieves a good weight reduction, coupled with good steering feel and real engine noise, it will be a winner. The new M5 has failed miserably on engine noise and sounds awful compared to the previous V10. Playing artificial sound through the speakers should not be entertained and goes against 'function over form' which used to be an M value.
The list of details you read at the very bottom of the article are all confirmed via conversations with BMW officials. The 450hp is an educated guess.

Read through these following previous posts to see the various confirmations of the details listed at the bottom of the article:
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      07-19-2012, 10:04 AM   #113
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      07-19-2012, 10:09 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentm View Post
I bet you BMW will loose a lot of sale on the M4 unless they like the 4 door. It is stupid anyway that they changes the name.
Actually , BMW have done testing in China in regards to the 4er. Contrarary to popular opinion , it is practically a myth. Whilst older traditional Chinese might have concerns over the number four. Younger professional and afluent Chinese have no such qualms about it. Besides the M3 buyer in China currently is the young , professional enthusiast.
I do not see the M4 having a problem in China or anywhere else especially if the car raises the bar yet again.

Which it will...
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      07-19-2012, 02:01 PM   #115
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I bet you BMW will loose a lot of sale on the M4 unless they like the 4 door. It is stupid anyway that they changes the name.
You only lose something that is loose!
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      07-19-2012, 03:28 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MPower View Post
Do you post anything but complaints? Looking at your posts that's all you contribute here. Give it a rest already we get it you hate BMW's direction. Theres no need to repeat yourself multiple times in every thread about every new future car or news.

Just vote with your wallet and make your M3 the last BMW you buy. Easy.
Not to point out the obvious but you have been here for all of 16 posts, so to judge the posts of mine you have seen here over all of probably 3 months, rather than the 7 years I have been here.....well, that seems a bit short cited. But maybe its me.

Oh, and all I am doing and will continue to do (as some have realized and appreciated) is to pound down the marketing crap everyone is being fed. I have plenty of great things to say about a great many things. Feel free to check out my many posts about the N20, N54, smaller engines in 7-series, etc. etc., etc and the praise I heap on BMW for that.

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      07-19-2012, 04:52 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3alabama View Post
Ya exhaust is strange. It looks like to cans on top of another longish rectanglar thing hanging even lower. Like two layers of mufflers!! How muted will the sound be with this thing with turbo and a double stacked muffler! haha
+1

Seems to be an technical interesting muffler solution ... but the two parallel upper canisters says to me clearly V-engine ... couldn´t find any logical reason for such an exhaust solution in the case of an I6 engine!

Greets Uli_HH
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      07-19-2012, 10:15 PM   #118
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Let\'s talk about engines for a second...

Can someone please explain to me why BMW insists on the upgrade / rework of the E55 VERY OLD 3.0 engine instead of work on the new and lighter (at least this has been the speech so far...) 4.0 V8?????

Please do not say that the E55 has better mileage... It's a M3 not a 118...

The E46 3.2 M3 engine is by far more Efficient than the E55 3.0. Where is this engine???

Efficient dynamics??? Why don't use the Mini Cooper 1.6 engine with the 184HP in the 1series 118 and 120??? The 1series 2.0 engine really look INEFFICIENT with its 150HP output...

Just some thoughts...

I'm engineer, with a 2002 M3. I don't like the long and very, very heavy E92 M3. I don't like the idea of a turbo small size engine in the new M3/M4. Please forget a new reworked E55...

I do not like to by a Porsche with their fantastic 3.6 / 3.8 NO TURBO wonderful engines... If they improve weigh balance, BMW for sure will have problems.

LuĂ*s Lahoz.
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      07-19-2012, 11:05 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Lahoz View Post
Can someone please explain to me why BMW insists on the upgrade / rework of the E55 VERY OLD 3.0 engine instead of work on the new and lighter (at least this has been the speech so far...) 4.0 V8?????

Please do not say that the E55 has better mileage... It's a M3 not a 118...

The E46 3.2 M3 engine is by far more Efficient than the E55 3.0. Where is this engine???

Efficient dynamics??? Why don't use the Mini Cooper 1.6 engine with the 184HP in the 1series 118 and 120??? The 1series 2.0 engine really look INEFFICIENT with its 150HP output...

Just some thoughts...

I'm engineer, with a 2002 M3. I don't like the long and very, very heavy E92 M3. I don't like the idea of a turbo small size engine in the new M3/M4. Please forget a new reworked E55...

I do not like to by a Porsche with their fantastic 3.6 / 3.8 NO TURBO wonderful engines... If they improve weigh balance, BMW for sure will have problems.
The N55 isn't that old. It came out for the 2011 model year I believe.

There are a few reasons why they aren't using the S54 anymore. One is that the is literally nothing left to be done to that engine. BMW got nearly everything that engine has to offer. It was the ultimate iteration of the M52* (which came out in 94) based engines. And the second is that it isn't as efficient (fuel wise) as the N55.

But yeah I do agree with you BMW has taken this efficiency thing a bit too far IMHO.

*Yes I meant M52. The difference between the M52TU and the M54 consists of a slightly different intake manifold shape, a slightly tweaked exhaust manifold, and it switched to an electronic throttle control. So the M54 is very very very similar to the M52.

Last edited by bimmerjph; 07-19-2012 at 11:11 PM.
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      07-20-2012, 03:28 AM   #120
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If BMW doesn't want to give the M3 "only"/"at least" a NA aspirated engine, it is not becasue they can't, but becasue they don't want. Below the M3 we'll have an M340i sDrive and xDrive. Isn't that a good solution ? NA Motorsport engine for M3 and torque monster "redlight racer" for the M340i !
Again BMW doesn't want. Porsche could with the new 3.4 and 3.8 H6, and AMG als ocould with the new 5.5 V8 in the SLK AMG.


If the M3 gets a V6, it will be a good car. If it gets an I6 (which is not NA) it will be a "bad" M car. I think V6, so still good car.
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      07-20-2012, 06:14 AM   #121
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Name:  bmwf82m48a.jpg
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3.3l V6 ?

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      07-20-2012, 09:09 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
[img]http://www.**************.com/community/attachments/bmwf82m4-8a-jpg.12408/[/img]

3.3l V6 ?
Your image isn't showing up for those of us who don't have an account at that forum. Try uploading it to imgur.com or something.
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      07-20-2012, 10:24 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
The N55 isn't that old. It came out for the 2011 model year I believe.

There are a few reasons why they aren't using the S54 anymore. One is that the is literally nothing left to be done to that engine. BMW got nearly everything that engine has to offer. It was the ultimate iteration of the M52* (which came out in 94) based engines. And the second is that it isn't as efficient (fuel wise) as the N55.

But yeah I do agree with you BMW has taken this efficiency thing a bit too far IMHO.

*Yes I meant M52. The difference between the M52TU and the M54 consists of a slightly different intake manifold shape, a slightly tweaked exhaust manifold, and it switched to an electronic throttle control. So the M54 is very very very similar to the M52.
If BMW were to use the N55, I hope it is a helleva lot stronger than the one that I have in my 2011 135.

Coming from the N54 in my 2008 135, there is a noticeable difference in the pulling power of those two motors. honestly, the N54 just kept wanting to go...and the N55 just...doesn't.

Not saying they can't make it a beast for the new M3/M4, but in my mind there will have to be significant upgrades. It just doesn't seem to be on the same level as the N54...

This is all based on the presumption that there will not be a bespoked ///M engine, which would obviously eliminate those concerns...
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      07-20-2012, 10:51 AM   #124
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It has already been confirmed that it will have a turbo I6. It is what it is. V6 has been ruled out and would not go over well with most people.
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      07-20-2012, 11:42 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
If BMW were to use the N55, I hope it is a helleva lot stronger than the one that I have in my 2011 135.
From the OP:

"The F80 M3 and F82 M4 will be powered by an inline 6 cylinder engine with multiple turbochargers, pushing the engine's output to approximately 450 horsepowers. The engine is now rumored to be an extensively reworked and reinforced N55 6-cylinder engine with a strengthened aluminium block with a heavily modified cylinder head. The Induction technology is said to be completely new as will be the latest bi-vanos variable valve timing."

So, this engine will quite probably only bare a passing resemblence to an N55. There seems to be a lot of anxiety with respect to statements made by insiders of a "massaged" or "tweaked" N55. But I think folks are reading too much into that language. The point being made with those statements, in my opinion, is that the N55 architecture will form the basis of the new engine much like the S54 was based off the M50 architecture. So its not going to be some minor overhaul. A 50% power increase from an OEM motor is not going to be a chip tune. I think this next M I6 will be serious business. It probably won't be a high revving engine per se, no, but I suspect we'll see the best effort yet from any manufacturer to mimic an N/A engine with flat torque curve and smooth power delivery. And if they go with an auxilliary electric turbo, perhaps they will find a way to eliminate lag too.
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      07-20-2012, 11:49 AM   #126
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Quote:
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If the M3 gets a V6, it will be a good car. If it gets an I6 (which is not NA) it will be a "bad" M car. I think V6, so still good car.
We already know it will be an I6. I don't see a point in speculating that further. With regard to the picture you've posted an I6 can have inidivdual headers with split exhaust too.
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      07-20-2012, 12:24 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
The N55 isn't that old. It came out for the 2011 model year I believe.
N55 was launched Q1 2009. There may be a Tü for it or complete redesign in the not so distant future as this fall new techniques for getting more power and efficiency will be shown by BMW.
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      07-20-2012, 01:18 PM   #128
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Yes.@ Paris. BMW will show off the complete new range of EfficientDynamics engines including their revolutionary three cylinder in the first FWD BMW Concept Car.

Dont forget that @ Geneva 2006 BMW launched the N54 ahead of the 3er Coupe that April.
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      07-21-2012, 01:55 PM   #129
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[IMG]http://www.**************.com/community/attachments/m4-jpg.12520/[/IMG]
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      07-23-2012, 02:19 PM   #130
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....perhaps the timing of the M4 / 440i /is timing could not be better.. now everyone will be forgetting the loss of NA small M-coupes while the concern over badging

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      07-24-2012, 09:20 PM   #131
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It looks like a 2 door 3 series GT M.
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      07-25-2012, 11:44 AM   #132
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Looks like my old 330 CI (2001) except for front end
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