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      07-24-2012, 09:53 AM   #89
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I hope the blue calipers make it to production
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      07-24-2012, 10:01 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by whats77inaname
I hope the blue calipers make it to production
It will. Blue brakes will be a signature M model feature going forward starting with the m5 f10.
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      07-24-2012, 10:28 AM   #91
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Here is another possibility.

It might just be my imagination, but except for the power dome, this F80 hood looks sleeker and flatter (less dolphin-like) than the F30 hood. If BMW made this change to the hood, the "power dome" could actually be functional (required just to fit the N55 engine with the flatter hood).

Just a theory....
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      07-24-2012, 10:42 AM   #92
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I guess they couldn't resist after seeing those great renders on here earlier they'll probably find some use for it though and if not, who cares, AMGS have 2 hoodlines as well, do they put cables in em or something?
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      07-24-2012, 11:32 AM   #93
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      07-24-2012, 11:37 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
Pal, seriously, how hypocrite can one be ?

Turbo M is not your formula ? Keeping the last NA M forever ?
But you're gonna save up for a Porsche TURBO ?

you totally misunderstood what I meant.
I said "TURBO M" is not in my formula. Yes the trend is changing, for more power, more torque, better efficiency.
But M should NOT have gone "turbo" like EVERY manufacturer is going, they made a big mistake.

It's sad to see these sports cars going for turbo, JUST for more power all the time, which isn't THE recipe for a true sports car but a "good" recipe for selling more cars.

Kinda funny to say this when i'm owning a 420 horsepower M car, I do think this is well more than enough power for me to enjoy the motor and the car itself both on the road and track. I do believe E46 M3 was a proper, well powered,perfectly engineerd sports car. Naturally aspirated with precise engineering of individual throttle body into mass production vehicle, this was the beauty of M. And this recipe of M continued until the E9xs...

Have you seen the geometry of the new M5 turbo? the turbines are right in the middle between the cylinders, it already smells trouble, over-heat (even with all the cooling they established), highly expected problems in the future.

Every sports car boasts something more than just hp number and look; it's a character.
STi, Evo boasts their awd traction and large amount of horsepower out of an ordinary 4 cylinder.
GTR also boasts its 4wd traction, but with a crazy amount of hp that matches supercar performance.
Mercedes has presented (through highly engineered sports cars and AMG lines) huge engine, stable ride control on motorways. That's why they did not advertise a porsche-collaborated built 500E as the fastest car on the track. Rather, they said it was the fastest car on the autobahn at the time, faster than any BMW or Porsche on highway cruising. Besides the 190E evo, they still boast this recipe for a sports car. Huge engine, rear wheel drive, crazy amount of hp and torque, stable at motorway cruise.
911 turbo has been the huge benchmark of supercar performance with everyday 911 look since the 993 days.
M3 has been a race car (quite literally a race engine...where else can you find a factory mass production engines with individual throttle bodies?) for everyday use. And this is well enough reason to say that 1M is never an M to my knowledge. It's just business marketed, tuned 135i.
Audi has been a turbo beast you take it on Autobahn for long cruise if not a race track (began with 100 and 200, but really with RS2 with porsche collaborated turbo engine and further RS lines until now).

Now, a turbo into M3? It is already losing its heritage. Sure it will be fast as hell, it will have all the torque we always wanted. But will it be a true M? don't take it too cheesy, I think i explained well enough to say that it is highly qestionable about the validity of M recipe in the future M3.

And people will start comparing as it shows on the floor. And honestly I would, too. If I were to choose a turbo car, I'd go used GTR or used 911 Turbo rather than a brand new M car with turbo.

Last edited by jaehshim; 07-24-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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      07-24-2012, 12:10 PM   #95
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I wonder how much longer till I start seeing the test mules state side by our dealership. Ill have to keep my eyes pilled and camera ready.
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      07-24-2012, 12:21 PM   #96
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I am curious to see if the M3 sedan uses the coupe's front end again.
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      07-24-2012, 12:57 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaehshim View Post
you totally misunderstood what I meant.
I said "TURBO M" is not in my formula. Yes the trend is changing, for more power, more torque, better efficiency.
But M should NOT have gone "turbo" like EVERY manufacturer is going, they made a big mistake.

It's sad to see these sports cars going for turbo, JUST for more power all the time, which isn't THE recipe for a true sports car but a "good" recipe for selling more cars.

Kinda funny to say this when i'm owning a 420 horsepower M car, I do think this is well more than enough power for me to enjoy the motor and the car itself both on the road and track. I do believe E46 M3 was a proper, well powered,perfectly engineerd sports car. Naturally aspirated with precise engineering of individual throttle body into mass production vehicle, this was the beauty of M. And this recipe of M continued until the E9xs...

Have you seen the geometry of the new M5 turbo? the turbines are right in the middle between the cylinders, it already smells trouble, over-heat (even with all the cooling they established), highly expected problems in the future.

Every sports car boasts something more than just hp number and look; it's a character.
STi, Evo boasts their awd traction and large amount of horsepower out of an ordinary 4 cylinder.
GTR also boasts its 4wd traction, but with a crazy amount of hp that matches supercar performance.
Mercedes has presented (through highly engineered sports cars and AMG lines) huge engine, stable ride control on motorways. That's why they did not advertise a porsche-collaborated built 500E as the fastest car on the track. Rather, they said it was the fastest car on the autobahn at the time, faster than any BMW or Porsche on highway cruising. Besides the 190E evo, they still boast this recipe for a sports car. Huge engine, rear wheel drive, crazy amount of hp and torque, stable at motorway cruise.
911 turbo has been the huge benchmark of supercar performance with everyday 911 look since the 993 days.
M3 has been a race car (quite literally a race engine...where else can you find a factory mass production engines with individual throttle bodies?) for everyday use. And this is well enough reason to say that 1M is never an M to my knowledge. It's just business marketed, tuned 135i.
Audi has been a turbo beast you take it on Autobahn for long cruise if not a race track (began with 100 and 200, but really with RS2 with porsche collaborated turbo engine and further RS lines until now).

Now, a turbo into M3? It is already losing its heritage. Sure it will be fast as hell, it will have all the torque we always wanted. But will it be a true M? don't take it too cheesy, I think i explained well enough to say that it is highly qestionable about the validity of M recipe in the future M3.

And people will start comparing as it shows on the floor. And honestly I would, too. If I were to choose a turbo car, I'd go used GTR or used 911 Turbo rather than a brand new M car with turbo.
M needs to hit a 20% efficiency gain or the BMW AG board will not approve anything- EFFICIENT DYNAMICS and going green are the way to the pockets of people with money. The new EPA stuff kicks in soon and every brand is working on turbos- even Ferrari, nothing will be immune.

They have tried with NA motors to get the efficiency but it is not possible at the price point of M cars- plain and simple. They didn't want to go turbo for the torque or any other reason it is getting cleaner and more efficient as per world wide regulations- there game has changed. And I hate to bring this all back to Brabham but M built that turbo..
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      07-24-2012, 12:58 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaehshim View Post
you totally misunderstood what I meant.
I said "TURBO M" is not in my formula. Yes the trend is changing, for more power, more torque, better efficiency.
But M should NOT have gone "turbo" like EVERY manufacturer is going, they made a big mistake.

It's sad to see these sports cars going for turbo, JUST for more power all the time, which isn't THE recipe for a true sports car but a "good" recipe for selling more cars.

Kinda funny to say this when i'm owning a 420 horsepower M car, I do think this is well more than enough power for me to enjoy the motor and the car itself both on the road and track. I do believe E46 M3 was a proper, well powered,perfectly engineerd sports car. Naturally aspirated with precise engineering of individual throttle body into mass production vehicle, this was the beauty of M. And this recipe of M continued until the E9xs...

Have you seen the geometry of the new M5 turbo? the turbines are right in the middle between the cylinders, it already smells trouble, over-heat (even with all the cooling they established), highly expected problems in the future.

Every sports car boasts something more than just hp number and look; it's a character.
STi, Evo boasts their awd traction and large amount of horsepower out of an ordinary 4 cylinder.
GTR also boasts its 4wd traction, but with a crazy amount of hp that matches supercar performance.
Mercedes has presented (through highly engineered sports cars and AMG lines) huge engine, stable ride control on motorways. That's why they did not advertise a porsche-collaborated built 500E as the fastest car on the track. Rather, they said it was the fastest car on the autobahn at the time, faster than any BMW or Porsche on highway cruising. Besides the 190E evo, they still boast this recipe for a sports car. Huge engine, rear wheel drive, crazy amount of hp and torque, stable at motorway cruise.
911 turbo has been the huge benchmark of supercar performance with everyday 911 look since the 993 days.
M3 has been a race car (quite literally a race engine...where else can you find a factory mass production engines with individual throttle bodies?) for everyday use. And this is well enough reason to say that 1M is never an M to my knowledge. It's just business marketed, tuned 135i.
Audi has been a turbo beast you take it on Autobahn for long cruise if not a race track (began with 100 and 200, but really with RS2 with porsche collaborated turbo engine and further RS lines until now).

Now, a turbo into M3? It is already losing its heritage. Sure it will be fast as hell, it will have all the torque we always wanted. But will it be a true M? don't take it too cheesy, I think i explained well enough to say that it is highly qestionable about the validity of M recipe in the future M3.

And people will start comparing as it shows on the floor. And honestly I would, too. If I were to choose a turbo car, I'd go used GTR or used 911 Turbo rather than a brand new M car with turbo.
Exactly, and the sound of a V8 is unmatched. I had the e46 before my e92, and I didn't complain when the V8 was in the talks because it just improved upon the high reving, NA recipe. If a high revving NA V-10 was next, I'd be fine with that too. But this turbo is a different story. I'm sorry but Clarkson was right on his season 13 ending episode in the V12 Vantage when he said it's the end of an era. Ladies and Gentlemen, this same thing happened to the auto industry in the 70's when we left the power and sound of the V8's of the 60's. It's happening all over again.
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      07-24-2012, 01:02 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
M needs to hit a 20% efficiency gain or the BMW AG board will not approve anything- EFFICIENT DYNAMICS and going green are the way to the pockets of people with money. The new EPA stuff kicks in soon and every brand is working on turbos- even Ferrari, nothing will be immune.

They have tried with NA motors to get the efficiency but it is not possible at the price point of M cars- plain and simple. They didn't want to go turbo for the torque or any other reason it is getting cleaner and more efficient as per world wide regulations- there game has changed. And I hate to bring this all back to Brabham but M built that turbo..
I understand that the industry in now slaved to MPG and emissions, but GM gets 26mpg out of the huge Vette V8. The next C7 5.5L DI is said to improve even further on that, pushing highway MPG into the 30's. So no, turbo is not the only solution.
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      07-24-2012, 01:05 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosiers View Post
I understand that the industry in now slaved to MPG and emissions, but GM gets 26mpg out of the huge Vette V8. The next C7 5.5L DI is said to improve even further on that, pushing highway MPG into the 30's. So no, turbo is not the only solution.
I think that is through cylinder deactivation though.
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      07-24-2012, 01:21 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by WW335 View Post
I am curious to see if the M3 sedan uses the coupe's front end again.
As mentioned in the OP, the kidney grills are different.

I think it is most likely that the F80 and F82 will use different front ends. Probably the F82 will share with the F83 and F86 M4 Gran Coupe, the latter of which will surely not share the F80 M3 Sedan front end.
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      07-24-2012, 01:23 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosiers View Post
I understand that the industry in now slaved to MPG and emissions, but GM gets 26mpg out of the huge Vette V8. The next C7 5.5L DI is said to improve even further on that, pushing highway MPG into the 30's. So no, turbo is not the only solution.
That is through cylinder deactivation, direct injection and gearing but does not lower CO2 as much which doesn't matter in the US but sure does everywhere else. The Vette is also much smaller and lighter by its sparse nature- the build quality levels are night and day.
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      07-24-2012, 01:30 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosiers View Post
I understand that the industry in now slaved to MPG and emissions, but GM gets 26mpg out of the huge Vette V8. The next C7 5.5L DI is said to improve even further on that, pushing highway MPG into the 30's. So no, turbo is not the only solution.
That engine has a 6600 RPM redline. I think it is pretty safe to guess that a 6600 RPM N/A V8 from M Division would get lambasted just like the 7200 RPM turbo V8 has.
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      07-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #104
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It does look like the "dome" has become a vent BUT... if it was a vent wouldn't there be openings in the camo to test the function of the vent itself and its effects on the engines performance/temperature.
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      07-24-2012, 02:36 PM   #105
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I know it's little too late now but it would have been a much better place for the M division if they just followed the numbers.
I4 -> I6 -> V8 -> V10 -> V12 M3s!!!
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      07-24-2012, 04:32 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
That engine has a 6600 RPM redline. I think it is pretty safe to guess that a 6600 RPM N/A V8 from M Division would get lambasted just like the 7200 RPM turbo V8 has.
If Porsche can do it, 991 & 981, BMW M also can do it, but they just don't want.

However I know that in future all NA H6 will be replaced by FI H4. Only the GT3 will retain a NA H6. BMW/BMW M could do the same, stick the shitty turbos everywhere, like they already have done, but keep just one bespoke engine for only one focused M car.
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      07-24-2012, 05:05 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaehshim View Post
And this is well enough reason to say that 1M is never an M to my knowledge. It's just business marketed, tuned 135i.


Quote:
Now, a turbo into M3? It is already losing its heritage. Sure it will be fast as hell, it will have all the torque we always wanted. But will it be a true M? don't take it too cheesy, I think i explained well enough to say that it is highly qestionable about the validity of M recipe in the future M3.
Why are you referencing "heritage" when the original M3 was a 2 door coupe and you drive an E90??

Last edited by DiavelM3; 07-24-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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      07-24-2012, 05:38 PM   #108
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Why are you referencing "heritage" when the original M3 was a 2 door coupe and you drive an E90??
I'm sorry, but the heritage and M3 "COUPE" really do not correlate.
In fact, a true mass produced M car was an M5, which was a sedan.
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      07-24-2012, 06:36 PM   #109
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a car can't resist...we are waiting!
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      07-24-2012, 08:15 PM   #110
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Build quality? Such as the "Chevrolet" interior? That's been beat over and over, and I would guess most people who complain about the c6 interior have never been in one.
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