F80 M3 rumor - no Manual?

[mhabs]

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...NEWS/120809892

[Red Bread]

Mein Got.

[bmwmmm]

"The M3 needs to have a stick shift. It will always have a stick shift,"
This is what a BMW official said last moth after giving the news that the next M5 will not be offered a manual option.

[JRV]

its possible in other places aside from the US, manual will not be offered. US will/should be getting it.

[discoboy1]

They offer a manual on the new M5, I don t see why it would not be available on the M3...

[FOACAD]

Originally Posted by JRV

its possible in other places aside from the US, manual will not be offered. US will/should be getting it.

I would believe the US not getting a manual before id believe Europe not getting one.

That said, there is no way the M3/M4 will be offered in only an auto.

[JRV]

Originally Posted by FOACAD

I would believe the US not getting a manual before id believe Europe not getting one.

That said, there is no way the M3/M4 will be offered in only an auto.

I did not specificially point out Europe. I just know the demand here for it is something BMW still considers...for now as I hear the next gen will not have it. Also, the F10 M5 manual is only offered in the US, no? The M3 is still offered manual everywhere but it seems if BMW only considers the F10 M5 to have manual here, then it doesnt support your claim.

[Jason]

Yes, there will be a manual transmission option for the F80 M3 / F82 M4 (not just based on the sighting of it - posted below).


Autoweek must have missed these photos:

From: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602401

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by Jason

Yes, there will be a manual transmission option for the F80 M3 / F82 M4 (not just based on the sighting of it - posted below).

BUT ... like you says only as "(no-costs) option" and I am not shure if this option would be available worldwide ... the base M3/M4 would come as M-DCT only car.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

BUT ... like you says only as "(no-costs) option" and I am not shure if this option would be available worldwide ... the base M3/M4 would come as M-DCT only car.

That's unlikely. Why would BMW forego the premium for M-DCT?

Also, the article is wrong on several other points.


Best regards,
south

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by southlight

That's unlikely. Why would BMW forego the premium for M-DCT?

Also, the article is wrong on several other points.


Best regards,
south

Unlikly? Really?

For me it make more sence than not doing so!

So they could achieve an higher realistic base price for the M3 / M4 and all freaks/fans who couldn´t live without an MT also have to pay this price even they get less!?

Thats modern BMW economics ... like the M Performance Automobiles - where the buyers get realistic very less more (mostly image!) for an much, much higher price.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

Unlikly? Really?

For me it make more sence than not doing so!

So they could achieve an higher realistic base price for the M3 / M4 and all freaks/fans who couldn´t live without an MT also have to pay this price even they get less!?

Thats modern BMW economics ... like the M Performance Automobiles - where the buyers get realistic very less more (mostly image!) for an much, much higher price.

You know, with an overall take rate of the M-DCT of some 70 percent you make more money with 70 percent paying the DCT premium than with 30 percent (MT buyers) not paying less.

It's also a hypothetical question as we're fairly sure there will be an MT for the next M3/4.


Best regards,
south

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by southlight

You know, with an overall take rate of the M-DCT of some 70 percent you make more money with 70 percent paying the DCT premium than with 30 percent (MT buyers) not paying less.

It's also a hypothetical question as we're fairly sure there will be an MT for the next M3/4.


Best regards,
south

NO ... you misunderstood me ... I don´t says that the base price of the M3 / M4 than would be calculated without putting the M-DCT price ontop.

SO they would make more money because the few Cars without DCT won´t be cheaper ... and all must pay the price of an car with M-DCT. Simple logic.

[Snig]

Originally Posted by Jason

Yes, there will be a manual transmission option for the F80 M3 / F82 M4 (not just based on the sighting of it - posted below).


Autoweek must have missed these photos:

From: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602401

Thanks Jason! Butt cheeks, unclenched.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

NO ... you misunderstood me ... I don´t says that the base price of the M3 / M4 than would be calculated without putting the M-DCT price ontop.

SO they would make more money because the few Cars without DCT won´t be cheaper ... and all must pay the price of an car with M-DCT. Simple logic.

Look at what they are doing with the M5.... And there will be a manual- M has gone on the record numerous times that the M cars under the M5 will have manuals going forward, not to mention Jason's spy shots. There was a LOT of BS in that article.

[as7920]

Originally Posted by Snig

Thanks Jason! Butt cheeks, unclenched.

Not so fast. The Autoweek article has made it onto Jalopnik!

[Red Bread]

The wording of the article, and the probable reality is that there will simply no longer be a discount for a manual car, just as they've done with the F30. Raise the base price to include the automatic pricing, and offer a manual at no savings. Clever, really. Just more expensive for those of us in the minority who want all three pedals.

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

Look at what they are doing with the M5.... And there will be a manual- M has gone on the record numerous times that the M cars under the M5 will have manuals going forward, not to mention Jason's spy shots. There was a LOT of BS in that article.

With the LOT of BS in that article you are totally right ... specially what they say about the V6.

But for me, as I told earlier, is clear that an manual would come only as an no-cost-saving option and the base price M3 / M4 would include the M-DCT tranny.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The wording of the article, and the probable reality is that there will simply no longer be a discount for a manual car, just as they've done with the F30. Raise the base price to include the automatic pricing, and offer a manual at no savings. Clever, really. Just more expensive for those of us in the minority who want all three pedals.

That is true but on the other hand the problem is that because there are less buyers the transmission is not cheaper than the DCT- less economies of scale to decrease price per unit and the cost of development not to mention the EPA testing costs make the price not as much as a discount as it could be.

I'll be the first to admit I always felt BMW jacked up the price of the autos to make more money on an option the vast majority of people would be buying and making the base model (manual) a bit less than it should be to get people in the door, but those days are long gone and the "Super Size" mentality is now in car land- package more and make it seem like a "value".

But in no way shape or form is the M3 ditching the manual- it will be a "no cost" option.

BTW- What German or American ever uses the term "Utter rubbish"? None I have ever met, that is a UK term and last I checked the UK didn't have any high ranking officials at M, but ....

[SD Z4MR]

That article has been changed since the link was posted yesterday. One of the things that struck me immediately and raised my skepticism level was that the car was initially revered to as the "F30 M3". That has been since been changed to refer to it as the F80. Maybe that was a typo or just force of habit, but that's what it originally said.

Most of it was a rehash of old rumors with the mention of no manual as the only new revelation. I'm surprised that they didn't mention the triple turbo rumor.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by southlight

You know, with an overall take rate of the M-DCT of some 70 percent you make more money with 70 percent paying the DCT premium than with 30 percent (MT buyers) not paying less.

What you appear to be saying is to bump up the MSRP by adding M-DCT as standard feature and that way you make more money. However, I think MSRP is set/fixed by marketing, by factoring in cost, competition, etc. and so whatever MSRP they decide on, should be the optimum they think will maximize sales in that country and so you just can't bump up MSRP like that.

So, I agree with southlight that at whatever fixed MSRP that BMW decides on as the optimum, all else being equal, your margin will be greater if you offer M-DCT as an extra cost optional feature.

But I guess all else is not always equal. One exception that I can think of is where by economies of scale it costs more to install the lower demand manual tranny, and so they want to make the M-DCT the standard tranny to discourage people from ordering the manual.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

What you appear to be saying is to bump up the MSRP by adding M-DCT as standard feature and that way you make more money. However, I think MSRP is set/fixed by marketing, by factoring in cost, competition, etc. and so whatever MSRP they decide on, should be the optimum they think will maximize sales in that country and so you just can't bump up MSRP like that.

So, I agree with southlight that at whatever fixed MSRP that BMW decides on as the optimum, all else being equal, your margin will be greater if you offer M-DCT as an extra cost optional feature.

But I guess all else is not always equal. One exception that I can think of is where by economies of scale it costs more to install the lower demand manual tranny, and so they want to make the M-DCT the standard tranny to discourage people from ordering the manual.

Your latter commentary is what BMW has been doing in the US, making the Auto/DCT as standard and "charging" for the manual- The E92 M3 being the counter to that but the M5 make the DCT standard as far as M cars (manual a no cost option) go and it seems like the F80 will follow in its footsteps.