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      09-13-2012, 12:42 PM   #89
vasillalov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kardboard View Post
N55

^^^ That's an N54 engine.

THIS is N55:


The new M3/M4 is definitely designed from the N55: See the similarities:



I suspect that the two turbochargers are differently sized. You'll have a smaller turbo for the low range providing meaty torque and then a bigger turbo kicks in to maintain airflow and torque for the high end of the RPM range. Also, chances are, this will be a direct injection, which means it won't rev as high as the outgoing V8 in the current M3.

However, if BMW nail their software correctly, the new M3 engine will absolutely destroy the V8 in every parameter.

Me likey!
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      09-13-2012, 12:43 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lassiter View Post
Nicely written post, I have a few points of my own to add. The US spec E36 M3 got a bad rap as it was a poor relation to the Euro version, down 80 naturally horsepower no less. That will not be the case with this engine, like the E46 and E9x the power will be the same both sides of the Atlantic. Also, the 1M engine, if I remember correctly, is exactly the same as the 135iS engine (I could be wrong here, if so someone pls correct). The f8x engine will have a raft of hardware changes and make far bigger power.

On a different note, I for one think it's great that this car will be lighter than the E9x. Sure, it'll still be a heavy car relative to a GT3 or Miata but the 4-5seats, proper trunk and all mod-cons give it massive real world practicality advantages. The M3 has been heavily biased towards being jack-of-all-trades vehicle since 1992. What sets it apart is that it is able to hit higher heights of track and fun than its direct rivals. I don't this one will disappoint. For a bigger, stiffer car to weigh less than it's predecessor is a huge step in the right direction, whether it's 200 lbs or 2lbs.
I agree with all your points. Especially the "jack of all trades" part. To me this was the most frustrating part of M3 evolution. I personally feel that the M3 should have remained biased towards its motorsport roots. I feel it was a mistake for BMW to depart from the original formula. BMW was only successful in doing this due to the fact that they still managed to do it better than Audi or Merc.

However, if the rumors are true, we may see a mass produced M3/4 CSL/RS/GTS this time around. Much like the 911, the M3/4 may come in many different flavors.

Jason
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      09-13-2012, 12:45 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
^^^ That's an N54 engine.

THIS is N55:


The new M3/M4 is definitely designed from the N55: See the similarities:



I suspect that the two turbochargers are differently sized. You'll have a smaller turbo for the low range providing meaty torque and then a bigger turbo kicks in to maintain airflow and torque for the high end of the RPM range. Also, chances are, this will be a direct injection, which means it won't rev as high as the outgoing V8 in the current M3.

However, if BMW nail their software correctly, the new M3 engine will absolutely destroy the V8 in every parameter.

Me likey!
thanks for the correction, i'm going to change my previous post.
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      09-13-2012, 12:54 PM   #92
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Me like very many
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      09-13-2012, 12:54 PM   #93
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Bmw 2014 F80 M3 Engine (turbo Inline 6) Physically Exposed! Reply To Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Every M3 used the stock block up until the E9X cars.
Small correction...
The e30 M3 used a unique engine block that was a derivative of the M5/M6 of that time and both the 4 cyl and the 6 cyl were unique to the M cars.

There is no other BMW that used the S14 block from the e30 M3.
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      09-13-2012, 12:54 PM   #94
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1M has an N54, 135is has an N55 with PPK II.

The layout of the intake and the rear pipe into the intercooler continues to convince me there is a second blower and it is not an exhaust driven turbo, but rather an electric supercharger. It appears that the second unit is located too far down and back to be exhaust driven, given the layout of either the N54 or N55 exhaust driven turbochargers.
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      09-13-2012, 12:54 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
I agree with all your points. Especially the "jack of all trades" part. To me this was the most frustrating part of M3 evolution. I personally feel that the M3 should have remained biased towards its motorsport roots. I feel it was a mistake for BMW to depart from the original formula. BMW was only successful in doing this due to the fact that they still managed to do it better than Audi or Merc.

However, if the rumors are true, we may see a mass produced M3/4 CSL/RS/GTS this time around. Much like the 911, the M3/4 may come in many different flavors.

Jason
Well said.

Oh boy re your second paragraph, while good news that's going to be a nightmare when closing on purchase time. I was going to break with tradition and buy the first model year F82 (given BMWs experience with M tts and DCT plus the customer-testing on the F80) but the thought of them releasing a more focused model within 6-12 months would be a bitter pill to swallow.

I'm not saying it's not good news to have these options, but from a buyers perspective I'm not a fan. However, I DO appreciate the heads up.

For sure excited to see the F8x develop and get ready for production. I just wish I could get the crazy idea of buying a 2013 V8 and running it into the ground out of my mind....
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      09-13-2012, 12:57 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kardboard View Post
N54


N55


M3/M4 Engine




Does anyone think the engine looks the same? I don't. I believe they will give this engine a proper S designation.

Anyone think its larger than a 3.0L?

E46 M3
MAN!!! tHAT E46 M3 ENGINE IS SO BEAUTIFUL
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      09-13-2012, 12:57 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
1M has an N54, 135is has an N55 with PPK II.

The layout of the intake and the rear pipe into the intercooler continues to convince me there is a second blower and it is not an exhaust driven turbo, but rather an electric supercharger. It appears that the second unit is located too far down and back to be exhaust driven, given the layout of either the N54 or N55 exhaust driven turbochargers.
Thanks for the info. Does the 335iS and Z4iS share the same N54, or does the 1M have changes?
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      09-13-2012, 12:58 PM   #98
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Can't wait to see what size turbos this has. The N54 puts down 430-450rwhp with less then 2K in mods on E85 with a good tune. This thing is going to be amazing.
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      09-13-2012, 01:03 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lassiter View Post
Thanks for the info. Does the 335iS and Z4iS share the same N54, or does the 1M have changes?
All the N54's have the same hardware. The only difference is the the 335is Z4is and 1M have a very mild tune from the factory.
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      09-13-2012, 01:11 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz View Post
Small correction...
The e30 M3 used a unique engine block that was a derivative of the M5/M6 of that time and both the 4 cyl and the 6 cyl were unique to the M cars.

There is no other BMW that used the S14 block from the e30 M3.
Sort of true, but the S14 is still an M10 block with M88 heads with two cylinders removed. Semantics really, but the block and 150% of the head was used in all sorts of BMW's.
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      09-13-2012, 01:16 PM   #101
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One thing is sure, this car better perform because 1, its sounds like complete shit. I hate the sound of anything less then a V8. Sounds like a kids car with a fart can. 2, its gonna weigh more then the V8 M3. All the newer M's weigh more then their replacements. They're just gonna say the extra weight doesnt matter because the car has more torque. If it does weigh less, you can bet its gonna be one expensive M3. Its too fcuking bad they'll be no V8. I just cant imagine listening to that 6 cyl everyday.
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      09-13-2012, 01:19 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Sort of true, but the S14 is still an M10 block with M88 heads with two cylinders removed. Semantics really, but the block and 150% of the head was used in all sorts of BMW's.
Exactly- thanks for keeping it real!

And people let's not kid ourselves here.... the N54 and its block have been sent out to pasture. Alpina is developing the N55 (maybe a future variant ) because "the N54 is no longer available". M is also in the business of advancing BMW designs- look at how M launched the "tü" of the N63 before even BMW did because M developed the new Valvtronic. The same should happen here.

And this car will definitely weigh LESS than the outgoing model as the F30 weighs less than the E90, and M is more efficient in weight use these days- it took less weight to go from F10 to F10M than E60 to E60M, same with the new M6.

Last edited by mapezzul; 09-13-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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      09-13-2012, 01:25 PM   #103
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yep, i want one hmmmm.
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      09-13-2012, 01:40 PM   #104
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Wow at 2:13 in the video you can hear the turbo spool and faintly hear compressor surge!
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      09-13-2012, 01:42 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrympower View Post
i miss a nice Mpower badge///, like the s14 engine had
you mean like this?

i love my S14, it's an animal

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      09-13-2012, 01:43 PM   #106
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I cant wait to see this motor has a lot of potential. But I would rather have an e92 m3
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      09-13-2012, 01:43 PM   #107
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Quote:
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My big fear was that this car would be a street queen given the turbo engine/resulting heat issues. A2L goes a long way to making this a trackable car.
I take it as a given that BMW will design an M3 that is trackable and in a different league overall than the other 3-series commutermobiles (my apologies for the reference; just keep repeating "useable torque" to yourself until you feel better).

My fear is that BMW may continue to have fits and starts with the motor engineering, like they've had on the N5X turbo motors and that Mini project, or that the things just won't run forever like the NAs have. I have an M20B motor from 1979 that still pounds it out in the original "fast" 3-series, the E21 Euro.

But the idea of having a 450HP motor with the turbos already on it, ready for whatever HP boost you can get out of reprogramming, is just nuts if you're only into the car for the short term, and that's the profile of the typical M3 owner these days. Right now it costs a fair whack to get a supercharger on the M3 -- though I am hopeful that the cost will drop as the car ages (as was the case with the E36 M3), since I am in the long-term owner category.
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      09-13-2012, 01:51 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
...
Based on the development schedule of the last two M models I still insist that this car will launch sooner than expected.
a little off topic but, speaking of launching, a little while back you wrote, and i'm paraphrasing: 'i can't believe that people think that the n55 will be the go-to engine in 2014'. i've been curious ever since to know what exactly you meant! can you share anything more about that?
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      09-13-2012, 01:57 PM   #109
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Quote:
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a little off topic but, speaking of launching, a little while back you wrote, and i'm paraphrasing: 'i can't believe that people think that the n55 will be the go-to engine in 2014'. i've been curious ever since to know what exactly you meant! can you share anything more about that?
Basically the engine will be long in the tooth at that point and BMW's development cycle for engines is a bit more rapid since they are producing more and trying to hit certain efficiencies as part of gov't mandates.

Look at the N63... look at when it was updated. Look at the N54, look at when it was beginning its phase out. There is a change coming
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      09-13-2012, 02:06 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Basically the engine will be long in the tooth at that point and BMW's development cycle for engines is a bit more rapid since they are producing more and trying to hit certain efficiencies as part of gov't mandates.

Look at the N63... look at when it was updated. Look at the N54, look at when it was beginning its phase out. There is a change coming
wow; thx. for the ultra-rapid response!! let me push my luck a little and ask this: if i'm in the market for a 4_ _ or 2_ _ when they're released in a year or so, is it likely that they will have the next-gen 6cyl. engines? feel free to tell me to shut up anytime, lol.

Last edited by hector; 09-13-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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