BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-28-2012, 10:55 AM   #309
Wolfinwolfsclothing
Major
13
Rep
1,195
Posts

 
Drives: E92 ///M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: B-roads

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
That sounds like a nice engine, but by no means does it represent the highest practical specific output for a turbocharged six cylinder application. Just look at the latest iteration of the VR38DETT in the Nissan GTR making 545hp, for example. That is just over 143hp/L, which would mean 430hp in a theoretical 3.0L application.

The S65 has a higher specific output than the outgoing naturally aspirated Maserati V8. There's really no reason to doubt that the upcoming "S55" will continue this trend vs. the new V6. This all makes sense of course, when you consider that the M3/M4 are performance cars while the Quattroporte is an executive sedan.
I think the M3 will be around 140-150 hp per liter.

Just look at the 911 GT2 RS, makes over 172 hp per liter and you know Porsche could have easily pushed beyond that even. Granted, Porsche makes prob the best turbo engines in the world but regardless there is surely a good amount of power to be had beyond the Maserati output.
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2012, 11:42 AM   #310
Levi
Brigadier General
Levi's Avatar
Czech_Republic
124
Rep
3,453
Posts

 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

iTrader: (0)

I think the Maserati (Ferrari) 3.0l V6 making 410 PS is a very good measuring stick. This engine is meant for GTs, not sportscars like BMW M. So if the M3/M4 engine is not making at least 450 PS from its 3.0l I6, I say it is weak. The new Audi S3 makes 300 PS from its 2.0l I4 (150 PS/l).
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2013, 12:34 PM   #311
bing240sx
Lieutenant
6
Rep
405
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3 Sedan
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

it may have been discussed here already but i couldnt scour through all of the posts. i had lunch last week with the owner of two BMW dealerships and he told me the next M3 will have 3 turbos and some other stuff that i already forgot.

not sure if it was confirmed elsewhere in this thread already.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2013, 01:07 PM   #312
firechicken99
Major
13
Rep
1,032
Posts

 
Drives: Black '07 335i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bing240sx View Post
it may have been discussed here already but i couldnt scour through all of the posts. i had lunch last week with the owner of two BMW dealerships and he told me the next M3 will have 3 turbos and some other stuff that i already forgot.

not sure if it was confirmed elsewhere in this thread already.
the docs at BMW ///M have been going snail crazy over the past few years!
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2013, 01:16 PM   #313
chriscecc914
Second Lieutenant
16
Rep
247
Posts

 
Drives: 1 series
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bing240sx View Post
it may have been discussed here already but i couldnt scour through all of the posts. i had lunch last week with the owner of two BMW dealerships and he told me the next M3 will have 3 turbos and some other stuff that i already forgot.

not sure if it was confirmed elsewhere in this thread already.
Yea it's been speculated before here that there may be triple turbos in the F80 M3 - as far back as Oct. 2011. See http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=597327
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #314
Levi
Brigadier General
Levi's Avatar
Czech_Republic
124
Rep
3,453
Posts

 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

iTrader: (0)

So the latest rumors from Jason, are that the F8X's engine will have a 8.000 RPM redline? From an I6? That is just not possible on the base of the N54/N55. And 8.000 RPM would make alot more than the rumored 430 PS. It would be in the 470-500 PS ballpark.

We had the "spypic" of the "M3 F80"s engine bay. For sure this could pic not be taken by spy/paparazzi photographs. So it must have been taken by BMW themselves. What proves us that this car was an M3 F80 or that this M3 F80 was fitted with the engine that would go into production? They quite possibly gave that pic to silence all the V6 rumors. TT 3.3l V6 alot makes alot more sense now. And what about the 430 PS I6 and the engine bay pic? What if it was just the next generation I6 and of the BMW 440i?

I wouldn't bet on anything, because anything is possible. BMW is about cost saving, so they'll chose the engine that saves them more money.

And now and image about of the concurence:

Audi: They have the Supercharged 3.0l V6, to rival the Mx40i. Next RS4/RS5 will simply just get the Turbocharged 4.0l V8. That is cost effective. To make a more powerfull (~450 PS) Supercharged V6 will cost more than to fit in a Turbocharged 4.0l V8, when they sell this engine in all these following cars: S6/S7 (420 PS), S8 (520 PS) and RS6 (560 PS).

Mercedes: They have a new Turbocharged V6 that replaces the old Naturally Aspirated V6. But that is no performance engine. Are they going to build a special V6 for the C AMG only? No. They'll do as they always did. But now the new C AMG will get a newly developed Turbocharged 4.0l V8 (two A 45 AMG engines put together in V) that is also to power the SLC AMG, likely the successor of the SLS AMG.

So both the next RS4/RS5 and C AMG are probably getting a Turbocharged 4.0l V8.

What about BMW? Could also be a possibility. There were initial rumors of a turbocharged S65, this give as a Turbocharged 4.0l V8. Same displacement and configuration for all the three german premium mid-class sedans/coupés. Sounds ready for DTM battle.

Until any offcial, not "official", info release, I wouldn't be to sure about anything.

All BMW decisions depend on the costs and long-term considerations.

I'd continue expecting the follwoing possibilities:

1. TC 3.0l I6 based on next generation engine, S54/S55 successor, in various output configurations for x35i, x40i, to M3/M4/X3 M/X4 M/Z5 M (?).

2. TC 3.3l V6 based on TC 4.4l V8, only for mid M cars.

3. TC 4.0l V8 based on S65, to with various outputs to power the whole range of M cars: M3, M4, M5, M6, M7 (?), X3 M, X4 M, X5 M, X6 M, and Z5 M (?), with the exception of M2, which in this case could get an I6, and not an I4.


Specualtions can continue.


Disclaimer: Sound of spy vids. Not clear.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 10:48 AM   #315
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
Uli_HH's Avatar
Germany
33
Rep
572
Posts

 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
So the latest rumors from Jason, are that the F8X's engine will have a 8.000 RPM redline? From an I6? That is just not possible on the base of the N54/N55. And 8.000 RPM would make alot more than the rumored 430 PS. It would be in the 470-500 PS ballpark.

We had the "spypic" of the "M3 F80"s engine bay. For sure this could pic not be taken by spy/paparazzi photographs. So it must have been taken by BMW themselves. What proves us that this car was an M3 F80 or that this M3 F80 was fitted with the engine that would go into production? They quite possibly gave that pic to silence all the V6 rumors. TT 3.3l V6 alot makes alot more sense now. And what about the 430 PS I6 and the engine bay pic? What if it was just the next generation I6 and of the BMW 440i?

I wouldn't bet on anything, because anything is possible. BMW is about cost saving, so they'll chose the engine that saves them more money.

And now and image about of the concurence:

Audi: They have the Supercharged 3.0l V6, to rival the Mx40i. Next RS4/RS5 will simply just get the Turbocharged 4.0l V8. That is cost effective. To make a more powerfull (~450 PS) Supercharged V6 will cost more than to fit in a Turbocharged 4.0l V8, when they sell this engine in all these following cars: S6/S7 (420 PS), S8 (520 PS) and RS6 (560 PS).

Mercedes: They have a new Turbocharged V6 that replaces the old Naturally Aspirated V6. But that is no performance engine. Are they going to build a special V6 for the C AMG only? No. They'll do as they always did. But now the new C AMG will get a newly developed Turbocharged 4.0l V8 (two A 45 AMG engines put together in V) that is also to power the SLC AMG, likely the successor of the SLS AMG.

So both the next RS4/RS5 and C AMG are probably getting a Turbocharged 4.0l V8.

What about BMW? Could also be a possibility. There were initial rumors of a turbocharged S65, this give as a Turbocharged 4.0l V8. Same displacement and configuration for all the three german premium mid-class sedans/coupés. Sounds ready for DTM battle.

Until any offcial, not "official", info release, I wouldn't be to sure about anything.

All BMW decisions depend on the costs and long-term considerations.

I'd continue expecting the follwoing possibilities:

1. TC 3.0l I6 based on next generation engine, S54/S55 successor, in various output configurations for x35i, x40i, to M3/M4/X3 M/X4 M/Z5 M (?).

2. TC 3.3l V6 based on TC 4.4l V8, only for mid M cars.

3. TC 4.0l V8 based on S65, to with various outputs to power the whole range of M cars: M3, M4, M5, M6, M7 (?), X3 M, X4 M, X5 M, X6 M, and Z5 M (?), with the exception of M2, which in this case could get an I6, and not an I4.


Specualtions can continue.


Disclaimer: Sound of spy vids. Not clear.
Nice speculation ... and possible very near the truth, because it could be the reason for these conflicting rumors ... an I6-Turbo with 8.000rpm is simply nearly impossible.

BUT you forgot one important engine layout:

The 3.0ltr.V6 (HDZ)BiTurbo based on the 4.0ltr.V8 BiTurbo ... both engines are originally well provided for the M1-sucessor ... and are really Highend/Hightech-Engines.

Greats Uli_HH
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2013, 03:10 PM   #316
Levi
Brigadier General
Levi's Avatar
Czech_Republic
124
Rep
3,453
Posts

 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
Nice speculation ... and possible very near the truth, because it could be the reason for these conflicting rumors ... an I6-Turbo with 8.000rpm is simply nearly impossible.

BUT you forgot one important engine layout:

The 3.0ltr.V6 (HDZ)BiTurbo based on the 4.0ltr.V8 BiTurbo ... both engines are originally well provided for the M1-sucessor ... and are really Highend/Hightech-Engines.

Greats Uli_HH
I'm not sure there is a need for both the 3.0l V6 if the S65 is used. Also we do not know what BMW's supercar will be like. According to the lastest rumors by SCOTT, BMW doens't want an R8 rival, but rather a McLaren P1, Ferrari F70 rival, what would make it the same car as the Lexus LFA, but with worse sound, or like the 918 Spyder, which in BMW version is the i8. We don't know what is BMW's M range strategy, if if there are to be two or only one model, mid-front or mid-rear engine. For a mid-rear configuration an I6 would not make alot of sense, so a V6 would be better. But I doubt there will be two engines options for a stand alone M car.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2013, 05:46 AM   #317
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
Uli_HH's Avatar
Germany
33
Rep
572
Posts

 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I'm not sure there is a need for both the 3.0l V6 if the S65 is used. Also we do not know what BMW's supercar will be like. According to the lastest rumors by SCOTT, BMW doens't want an R8 rival, but rather a McLaren P1, Ferrari F70 rival, what would make it the same car as the Lexus LFA, but with worse sound, or like the 918 Spyder, which in BMW version is the i8. We don't know what is BMW's M range strategy, if if there are to be two or only one model, mid-front or mid-rear engine. For a mid-rear configuration an I6 would not make alot of sense, so a V6 would be better. But I doubt there will be two engines options for a stand alone M car.
If I take an look at zhe spezifications of the S65 and the S63Tü than we could also speculate if BMW would also go the MB way and use the B38 and N20 engine blocks to create an complete new 4.0ltr.V8 BiTurbo and an 3.0ltr.V6 BiTurbo ... so they could use in the future many common parts through the complete engine range.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 11:16 AM   #318
rumbleman82
Registered
0
Rep
3
Posts

 
Drives: M3 E92 Alpine Edition
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_TRADER View Post
happy to know the S65 is now one of a kind and probably will have demand for it once its off production...first and only M3 ever to have a V8.
100% agree, no M car has been bad, they are all great but the E92 (just my fav version) will be a classic in 20years time and is a beast right now. Just can't imagine the same for the 36/46 and even the F series -
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2013, 01:01 PM   #319
Mike Benvo
www.bpmsport.com
Mike Benvo's Avatar
United_States
98
Rep
4,814
Posts

 
Drives: Harrop SC M3 / E46 M3 / 7Turbo
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [5.00]
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Benvo
If anyone is interested, here are some pics I snapped of the new M3 sedan about a block from my house:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=824854

__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2013, 04:14 PM   #320
BMWinGE
Captain
10
Rep
649
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

great job man! lucky you!!
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2013, 06:27 PM   #321
Stev3
Enlisted Member
United_States
0
Rep
35
Posts

 
Drives: A Silver Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by malter2.0 View Post
Great news! Now waiting for the following news.

-300lb diet
-elimination of turbos
-9000rpm redline
-440hp N/A


And we are set!
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 01:20 AM   #322
cstavaru
Brigadier General
cstavaru's Avatar
94
Rep
3,237
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bucharest, Romania

iTrader: (0)

I keep hearing how "unique" the current S65 V8 is. My opinion is that this engine is a torque-less, heavy, old-technology (doesn't even have direct injection), inefficient engine that sounds much worse and faint than any competitor's V8, take AMG for example. With a turbocharged engine you can have fun all the time, while the S65 V8 is gutless in daily traffic and is only good on the track where you spend 10% of your time.

BMW used "unique" engines because the production ones did not satisfy their goals no matter how heavily modified. This isn't the case anymore, the BMW standard engines are becoming light, efficient and powerful and it would be stupid for M not to use them as a base.

As long as it handles exceptionally well, it feels well and it's substantially more powerful than a standard car, it can be an M.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 04:04 AM   #323
Levi
Brigadier General
Levi's Avatar
Czech_Republic
124
Rep
3,453
Posts

 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

iTrader: (0)

I'm hearing how unique the 3.0l V6 is, capable of reliable 620 PS.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 06:25 AM   #324
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
184
Rep
13,844
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
I keep hearing how "unique" the current S65 V8 is.
Well, it is in pretty rare company for non-supercars. The only other V8 outside that class of car capable of 100hp/L and 8000+ RPM is from Audi. Whether those engine traits appeal to you is another matter, but they do make the engine unique. Sure you could paint the valve covers of an engine pink and call it unique, but these features of the S65 represent significant engineer efforts and make it feel and behave more like a racing engine. And that's something that presents a lot of value for people still looking for the motorsport connection from M Division.

Quote:
My opinion is that this engine is a torque-less, heavy, old-technology (doesn't even have direct injection), inefficient engine
You are certainly entitled to that opinion.

The facts tell us that peak torque for this engine is nearly identical to BMW's own state-of-the art N55 (even with its latest and greatest direct injection and Valvetronic technology). It also has a flatter torque curve than that engine. Finally, the S65 weighs insignificantly more than an N55 - about 20 lbs.

As for power, which is what ultimately determines a car's performance (and which you did not address, but I will), the S65 makes much more power than an N55 and in fact even more than the N63 turbocharged V8. It was not until the arrival of the N63Tu late last year that the series turbocharged V8 eclipsed the S65 in power, and only by a few percent. Of course it weighs a lot more than an S65 as well. There is the S63 too, but it is available only in much more expensive and much larger, heavier vehicles unfortunately.

On the matter of efficiency, yes, the S65 definitely comes out on the bottom.

Quote:
that sounds much worse and faint than any competitor's V8, take AMG for example.
I'm not sure which AMG V8 you mean. M156? AMG has many V8s. Anyway, sound quality is a subjective trait, so there's not a whole lot to be gained from debating it. Suffice it to say though, there are plenty who'd disagree with you. And if we compare against the N55, or most every other turbocharged engine for that matter, then you will find few who prefer the latter (probably not even you).

Quote:
With a turbocharged engine you can have fun all the time, while the S65 V8 is gutless in daily traffic and is only good on the track where you spend 10% of your time.
This doesn't jibe with my experience. It is possible you are not making effective use of the gearbox, which helps get power from the engine when you need it. There has been a number of discussions about this topic in the past and the problem usually boils down not to torque (which is fairly constant across the RPM range) but power which is maximized by spinning the engine at a higher RPM. By the way, the DCT gearbox in particular is designed to match the V8s character since it allows you to shift very quickly and easily.

Quote:
BMW used "unique" engines because the production ones did not satisfy their goals no matter how heavily modified. This isn't the case anymore, the BMW standard engines are becoming light, efficient and powerful and it would be stupid for M not to use them as a base.
Until the S65 and S85, BMW had always used series engines as the basis for those from M Division. Even the S65 could have used the N62 V8 as a starting point, for example.

Quote:
As long as it handles exceptionally well, it feels well and it's substantially more powerful than a standard car, it can be an M.
Even with a gutless, inefficient, lousy sounding dinosaur of a V8, eh?
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2013, 01:41 AM   #325
Tåst
Second Lieutenant
Tåst's Avatar
2
Rep
220
Posts

 
Drives: BMW, I think.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: FIN

iTrader: (0)

Bmw will never but V6 engine on M- model. There is no reason.

There is talk that N55 hasn´t capacity to rev 8000rpm, it has, if they machined bigger crankshaft- and rodbearings, better flowing cylinder head, bigger valves and optimase vibration damber to handle revs. Like they heavily modified M54 engine to S54.
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2013, 06:09 AM   #326
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
Uli_HH's Avatar
Germany
33
Rep
572
Posts

 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holander View Post
Bmw will never but V6 engine on M- model. There is no reason.

There is talk that N55 hasn´t capacity to rev 8000rpm, it has, if they machined bigger crankshaft- and rodbearings, better flowing cylinder head, bigger valves and optimase vibration damber to handle revs. Like they heavily modified M54 engine to S54.

The only thing clear to me is that all new BMW AG and M GmbH engines will build on the modular platform of the B.8 engine family !!!

The first engine of this family is the B38 3-cylinder, which pretends the technical principles / conditions for all new engines. According to the last interview of the Dr.Nitschke this B38 is able to achieve performance up to 300 + hp ... what does mean, that an composite 6 cylinder of 2 B38 as Levi quotes, could easily achieve 600 + hp ... and this in both V6 and I6 form, from which the V6 for a sports car would of course bringing packaging benefits while allowing further the use of the revolutionary BiTurbo system of S63Tü.

And ultimately a F80 with a V6 would certainly most easily de-raised doubts over on the uniqueness of the M3 engine. Nevertheless, this 3.0ltr.V6 BiTurbo would fit easily in the new common parts engine kit / platform from BMW. And an V6 is in every way an better base to combine high revs with high pressure turbos ... the S54 is there no real criterion, since it is no turbo engine and thus a significant and non-negligible load characteristic is absent ... a more compact crankshaft-moderately build engine withstand the high loads better or more easily.

Greets Uli_HH

Last edited by Uli_HH; 05-15-2013 at 06:53 AM.
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2013, 07:40 AM   #327
Tåst
Second Lieutenant
Tåst's Avatar
2
Rep
220
Posts

 
Drives: BMW, I think.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: FIN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
The only thing clear to me is that all new BMW AG and M GmbH engines will build on the modular platform of the B.8 engine family !!!

The first engine of this family is the B38 3-cylinder, which pretends the technical principles / conditions for all new engines. According to the last interview of the Dr.Nitschke this B38 is able to achieve performance up to 300 + hp ... what does mean, that an composite 6 cylinder of 2 B38 as Levi quotes, could easily achieve 600 + hp ... and this in both V6 and I6 form, from which the V6 for a sports car would of course bringing packaging benefits while allowing further the use of the revolutionary BiTurbo system of S63Tü.

And ultimately a F80 with a V6 would certainly most easily de-raised doubts over on the uniqueness of the M3 engine. Nevertheless, this 3.0ltr.V6 BiTurbo would fit easily in the new common parts engine kit / platform from BMW. And an V6 is in every way an better base to combine high revs with high pressure turbos ... the S54 is there no real criterion, since it is no turbo engine and thus a significant and non-negligible load characteristic is absent ... a more compact crankshaft-moderately build engine withstand the high loads better or more easily.

Greets Uli_HH
Good points, but still I dont agree V6
Civil cars hp/l ratio is so low that it not make sense to move use V6, there are lots of S38,S50,S52,S54 even M52 whit turbocharger/supercharger and block is not weakest point. Good example M12 formula 1 engine weakest point are not a block, weakest part has a piston pin.

I think too that M3 power will be always under 500bhp, so I6 is ideal platform. Sound better than V6 even when talking TC engines, more econimically? I6 need only two camshaft and less rotation parts than V6, rev faster and I6 is naturally balanced. And what you said allready, I think that only better is that whit V6 layot you can put turbochargers inside on V.

So not make sense that Bmw do totally new V6 block. Long history for I6 engines, I6 make Bmw sound differend(better) than competors and only parts what engine can share whit B38 is pistons and cylinder head.
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2013, 08:47 AM   #328
Needsdecaf
Everything's Bigger in Texas!
42
Rep
2,066
Posts

 
Drives: Porsche Tractor
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Don't understand why you guys are discussing V6 engines when we've seen what it looks like..
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2013, 06:39 PM   #329
ibmike
What the Hell ?
ibmike's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
1,518
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3 e92 DCT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (6)

Being that its going to be at least a twin turbo, you can probably expect to be able to add 1.2x Hp with pretty much just software upgrades. So if its 450hp stock x 1.2=540hp with a Crap load of added torque.
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2013, 02:24 AM   #330
Ezio
Brigadier General
Ezio's Avatar
United_States
44
Rep
3,044
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post

So both the next RS4/RS5 and C AMG are probably getting a Turbocharged 4.0l V8.
If they are making turbo v8s and BMW are making turbo 6s....

looks like benz and audi are getting my money next !
__________________
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 engine, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m4, 2014 m4 coupe, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 m3, 2015 m3 engine, 2015 m4, 2015 m4 coupe, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 engine, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f82 m4 engine, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, f80, f80 forum, f80 forums, f80 m3, f80 m3 engine, f80 m3 forum, f80 m3 forums, f80 m3 motor, f80 m3 sedan, f82, f82 coupe, f82 forum, f82 forums, f82 m3, f82 m3 coupe, f82 m3 forum, f82 m4, f82 m4 coupe, f82 m4 engine, f82 m4 forum, f82 m4 forums, f82 m4 motor, f83 m3

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST