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      09-15-2012, 08:56 PM   #221
fatpanda
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JC is paid to talk shop. He's a comedian that's all
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      09-15-2012, 09:21 PM   #222
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>= 150hp/liter

That's c-x75 and veyronSS territory and half way to F1 territory.

Now...

Could still be lighter than s65 and makes way more power per liter. It is sad to talk about hp/l on boosted car though still impressive nontheless.

Case 1. it has dual twin/single scrolls and a third larger single/twin scroll for top end (this could be airbox on left feeder)....

Case 2. Electric super is only for instant bottom end (stil could have it). And then two larger twin scrolls.

Case 3. Could be n54 turbo setup and best practices applied to n55 w.n20 tech thus having dual twin/single scroll turbos, one small, one bigger for bottom and middle with a third larger turbo for top end.

Case 4. Triple scroll single turbo and combo of previous.

Case 5. BMW petrol version of triple turbo diesel.

Case 6. The third turbo is feeding the input brought through the a2a intercooler and then through the a2w for the dual twin/single scrolls.

So if it's a heavily modified n55 block of aluminum w HDE injection and improved valvetronic for better top end this truly could be an amazing engine. It defintely is pushing fatter tires.

Last edited by m balla; 09-15-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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      09-15-2012, 09:55 PM   #223
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      09-15-2012, 10:50 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
Yeah right. So that must be why Top Gear, and notably Jermey Clarkson who is not known for being a BMW lover, has chosen a BMW 1M (with a twin turbo in-line six) to be the ultimate fun car of 2011.
There's no doubt the 1M is a great bang for buck proposition. I would expect that to continue with the M2. However, the current M3 is an entirely different experience. From its grumbling at start up, to it's growl at WOT, I've never had a car like this. Had they taken the s65, bored it out and thrown it into the F M3/4, I'd be on the wait list. Instead, they decided to modify a N55, which is fine provided they drop the price, but they won't. I hate to say it, but after owning an e36, 46, and 90, the F just looks boring. it's the kind of engine I'd expect in a 1/2 series M. I guess I am just old fashioned, and I'm only 35.

Like I said in a previous post, taking stock engines and going to town in the NA era was fucking impressive. Producing moderately more power and charging a premium for it in a turbo era is just silly. If porsche, who was in my estimation on par with M division, can do it, why can't BMW?

PPS. Fuck CAFE right in the ear
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      09-15-2012, 11:43 PM   #225
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I don't know about you, but doesn't this (the engine bay) look like a complicated way of making 450+ hp? Are the marketing guys responsible for wanting to cram a lot of tech (also possibly untried with the supposed electric supercharger) in a car that peaople will want to drive the hell out of, which may result in reliability problems?

Although, it seems that with all this 'tech" it is making it harder for 'tuners' (oh boy, tuners) to go into the vehicle and make big changes---all they have to do now is have a laptop.
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      09-16-2012, 02:58 AM   #226
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Looks impressive and complex. I am sure it will live up to it heritage and be awesome.
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      09-16-2012, 03:20 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatpanda View Post
JC is paid to talk shop. He's a comedian that's all
Lol, So BMW pay him to big up the 1M, but a few shows later he slags off another BM product? What happenend, BMW run out of Clarkson funding?

Hmmmm. Personally I think he gets paid enough by BBC, and if he has any kind of bias it will be towards Mercedes, as he always owns a few of those personally.

Last edited by NISFAN; 09-16-2012 at 03:30 AM.
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      09-16-2012, 03:56 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US///M3 View Post
Regardless of what engines the M3 cars used in the past,there's no arguing the NA high revving V8 is more fun than a twin turbo in line six.
The S65 is being replaced by a twin turbo reworked N55 for costs reasons.
You only come to that conclusion, because you are a V8 guy.....speak to all the 2JZ or RB26DETT owners, and they will applaud the BMW blown inline 6 route.

Anyway, if BMW had gone a bigger NA V8 as the powerplant for the new M3, it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight....the C63, RS4 would have caned the M3.
Turbo charging was the only option.
Bit surprised they didn't turbo the V8, but this is probably due to packaging reasons. Whereas Mercedes are OK with a non 50/50 balanced car...BMW would never be so crude.

Horsepower like in the playground is the headline figure I see. I would bet the new M3 engine is torque limited and produces a huge flat torque band that would see it blow a higher horsepower NA into the weeds.

One thing for sure, the gearbox is the critical technology update. No doubt BMW will offer an MT version for the die hards, but the big performance version will only have two pedals.......oh the horror.
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      09-16-2012, 04:36 AM   #229
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Can't wait to turn up the volume button to hear the exhaust sounds on this M3/4. Go........Mpower!!!!!
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      09-16-2012, 05:13 AM   #230
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If the new M3 had an ultra light NA 3.8l I6 making 450PS and 450 Nm, with 8.5 RPM redline, then it would be a good substitute for the S65. But not an N55. Hey, its an M3, not some JDM turbo monster.
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      09-16-2012, 06:09 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblack4083 View Post
It's no secret that the S engines were "derived" from their non-M counterparts. That doesn't mean the same exact materials have to be used.
Yes, but for example S5X-series engines has larger diameter crankshaft bearings and connection rod bearings and higher block than M5x-series. Cylinder head is also special M-parts and totally differend than M5x-series, bolt holes are different, cooling holes are different places. Because standard M5x engine cannot rev 8000rpm.

But we can´t know is F80 M3 engine real s-engine. I think it can´t be just slightly modified N55 ..
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      09-16-2012, 06:17 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
If the new M3 had an ultra light NA 3.8l I6 making 450PS and 450 Nm, with 8.5 RPM redline, then it would be a good substitute for the S65. But not an N55. Hey, its an M3, not some JDM turbo monster.
Actually they make just that like engine on 1979. Allready tested engine just but it under F30 hood.

Sounds good? 350.5 kw / 470.0 bhp @ 9000 rpm
Read more at http://www.supercars.net/cars/194.ht...ZEoLhyisCPF.99
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      09-16-2012, 06:30 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
If the new M3 had an ultra light NA 3.8l I6 making 450PS and 450 Nm, with 8.5 RPM redline, then it would be a good substitute for the S65. But not an N55. Hey, its an M3, not some JDM turbo monster.
That would be lame....and a financial disaster, mildly tuned 335's would be faster
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      09-16-2012, 08:52 AM   #234
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I cant believe some here are bringing up JC, just another buffoons like Chris Harris who thinks one of the most successful car in grassroot racing the Miata is a terrible car.
The 1M is the ulimate fun car of 2011.hahaha
Is that like BMW saying "we dont build cars,we build the ultimate driving machine" on an X5 commercial?
Both must be using the word "ultimate" loosely.
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      09-16-2012, 09:03 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
That would be lame....and a financial disaster, mildly tuned 335's would be faster
Are you rolling your eyes at your own post there?
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      09-16-2012, 10:06 AM   #236
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Bottom line is that M3 no longer has a unique engine.
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      09-16-2012, 11:06 AM   #237
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Bottom line is that M3 no longer has a unique engine.
All previous M3 engines have been based on a lower spec production version. Not many high volume car companies can afford to make a one off engine for a single model line, BMW included.

The only companies that do are the likes of Lamborghini and Ferrari that use the same engine for decades.
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      09-16-2012, 11:41 AM   #238
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All previous M3 engines have been based on a lower spec production version. Not many high volume car companies can afford to make a one off engine for a single model line, BMW included.

The only companies that do are the likes of Lamborghini and Ferrari that use the same engine for decades.
So that makes the S65,S85 even more special. No turbo lag like the F10 M5's engine,no need to play engine sound through the stereo.
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      09-16-2012, 12:15 PM   #239
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Just keep your V8 and pay it off if not already paid for... and if you want a new one get it while you can. There will be nice pre-owned examples to find. And supercharge it while your at it! I would still like to buy a pristine low mileage e46 m3.

Now, if you are an I6 fan and love the bottom more than the top this next car just may be the one for you. I can't think of a sweeter combo to get the manual transmission in: low end torque + manual + lsd. Hopefully it has a higher redline. Not sure how vtronic and the valvetrain play into that. I am sure lag will be mitigated as much as possible in this one. And think the engineering prowess BMW will be able to gloat because they were able to bring a 6 up to or exceed what the competition can do with an 8. It is kinda like the tiny yet massive engine and F1 going to 6 then 4 and the XJ220 with its savage turbo V6. BMW has already done the 8/10 quite well.

Or have both. I just hope the F8x has some lungs up top. No matter what and no matter how much this or that or comparison is done, the S65 is and always will be a mechanical masterpiece and symphony.

Like Scott said, not everyone is going to like the F8x. And I thought I read somewhere that the N54 was originally designed by the M division for use in future M cars or something like but they brought the 8 instead.

I do wish the F8x was a P derived design.
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      09-16-2012, 12:38 PM   #240
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I'm sure it will be fast as shit, but I'm not impressed with the look at that engine bay or the sound of the engine.

Still loving the E9x M...
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      09-16-2012, 01:42 PM   #241
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Not really. There are some slight hardware changes...

The 335is/Z4is/1M do have different (primary)cats. They are more free flowing than regular N54 ones. These cars also have the PPK(extra radiator in the passenger fender, higher wattage radiator fan, sound generator and SW tune from BMW) already installed along with a different flywheel and clutch - which the normal x35i cars did not get.

The 335is/Z4is/1M cars do have a special SW tune that also allows for over boost in the low to mid range for short periods.
I have the extra radiator in the fender of my factory 2007 335i coupe E92 (w/ N54 (2-turbos)) with sport package ~Frost
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      09-16-2012, 02:07 PM   #242
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So that makes the S65,S85 even more special. No turbo lag like the F10 M5's engine,no need to play engine sound through the stereo.
Only the S85 is a one off engine, the S65 was derived from the S85 so it is like any other M engine. The only special engine from BMW was the S85 as it was the only V10 ever put into a BMW while the are a lot of different BMW V8s around.
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