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      10-04-2012, 02:57 PM   #45
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Looking good!
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      10-04-2012, 03:02 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl L View Post
Totally agreed, M4 sounds stupid.

The styling looks good and the weight reduction is welcome but i am losing interest in this car. Offering the same hp is ridiculous, myself and the majority (this board is a small and avid % of drivers) of M3 buyers don't spend 80grand to have to invalidate a warranty through aftermarket tuners to make the car move like it should.

The M3 is about more than just hp, but this still seems like a curious decision at this price point. An newer M3 down 140hp from an M5- can't remember that before. (american E36 doesn't count)

A fresh 2013 nat asp E92 is looking like an increasing possibility for me. It never feels down on torque due to flat band and gearing, plus impeccable reliability, heat management on track, no lag and great sound

Jason- any word on whether this engine will have a unique displacement like being bored to 3.2? Basically, something that justifies the cost compared to the E46 and E92.
Remember all the imbeciles that thought the S65 was wayyyyyyy too weak to compete? Right around 2007, the same idiots were saying that the car "needs" at least 450 to compete against the C63 and RS4 (which all had more power AND torque than the M3).

Then the M3 started dominating all comparison tests.

May I also mention that:
1) The new V8TT "only" has 53hp more than old V10 but weighs significantly more. Anyone seen how the V8TT annihalates the V10? Let's not underestimate what 100 ft-lbs more torque and a couple of 100 lbs less weight can do.
2) How ridiculously underrated BMW turboed engines are from factory.

My point is, we should be applauding that they are using the E46 M3 as the weight benchmark, and hope to god that there are no heat and HFPF issues.
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      10-04-2012, 03:11 PM   #47
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Over a year??! The anticipation of this car is going to kill me. I have no doubt that its going to blow our minds away once its complete and in production form. None of the M3's has disappointed, yet.....
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      10-04-2012, 03:13 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblack4083 View Post
There's a lot of cooling components, suspension, limited slip differential, carbon fiber roof, seats with bigger bolsters, and a lot more stuff that you would need to make a 335 match an m3.

Unless of course you want a go fast machine to beat soccer moms with from stop lights...
Oh I 100% agree. The question you need to answer is if it's worth adding $60,000 more to an '07 335i which weighs as future M3 and tuned will have almost same power output.

Difference between E46 330i and E46 M3 was staggering in terms of everything. E90 a bit less difference and now F30 vs F80...ehhh.

At some point you find an optimal "price/smile per mile" ratio. For us non-millioners, $60k extra to go from '07 335i simply isn't worth the jump. That money will buy certified 997. Just sayin'...
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      10-04-2012, 03:22 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanson View Post
All sounds good. Now, just dump that 6 cyl and put a V8 in it.
+1000000
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      10-04-2012, 03:38 PM   #50
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No excuses - Lighter and powerful M3/M4

Guys, no excuses like (technology required nowadays for new cars may increase wheigh - look at PORSCHE new cars... lighter AND powerful... engineers should work like it at BMW...
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      10-04-2012, 03:42 PM   #51
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now that is one boss render, dayum
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      10-04-2012, 03:46 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Lahoz View Post
Guys, no excuses like (technology required nowadays for new cars may increase wheigh - look at PORSCHE new cars... lighter AND powerful... engineers should work like it at BMW...
The 911 base car is much smaller. It's not built on a family sedan. Also it is much more expensive so they can use fancier and more exotic materials. Realistically 400+hp is enough for this car but I am going to guess it will have around the 450 we originally thought of. As for weight this car is going to not be 3400lbs. I would hope so but I just don't see that happening. Maybe 3500lbs but that will be on the very low end of my guess.

Here are some random numbers and guesses I am pulling out my ass. I do think these are reasonable though

450 hp
380 lb ft
7500 rpm red line from a turbo 3.2l I6
3550 lbs
Active diff like on the M5/6
65k base in the US and fully loaded a bit over 80k (no ceramics if this car even is offered it)
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      10-04-2012, 03:48 PM   #53
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Oh and can we get that render in AW with those wheels and a contoured M6 style roof. And in a good resolution too. I need a new background lol. That render is sexy
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      10-04-2012, 03:52 PM   #54
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ATTN BMW: I'm hoping the actual M4 looks like the render in this post. that is an AMAZING looking vehicle. Oh and i'd buy one.
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      10-04-2012, 03:52 PM   #55
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The weight drop sounds Great!! Anything under 450 HP would be very sad. And 395 lb-ft is nothing to get impressed by IMO. My N55 with a Dinan Stage Two tune has 401 lb-ft...

I realise we will be able to go aftermarket for better tune, but I sure hope BMW bring some decent HP numbers to the plate considering whats out there today. We have lots of options...
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      10-04-2012, 04:01 PM   #56
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Looks so mean in Black.

Who's render is that Jason?
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      10-04-2012, 04:02 PM   #57
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450 ponies, less weight, more torque : that's enough for my pleasure

Last edited by pafpaf; 10-04-2012 at 04:21 PM.
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      10-04-2012, 04:07 PM   #58
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Looks so mean in Black.

Who's render is that Jason?
Ours (BIMMERPOST)
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      10-04-2012, 04:08 PM   #59
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awesome!
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      10-04-2012, 04:10 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardg View Post
The 911 base car is much smaller. It's not built on a family sedan. Also it is much more expensive so they can use fancier and more exotic materials. Realistically 400+hp is enough for this car but I am going to guess it will have around the 450 we originally thought of. As for weight this car is going to not be 3400lbs. I would hope so but I just don't see that happening. Maybe 3500lbs but that will be on the very low end of my guess.

Here are some random numbers and guesses I am pulling out my ass. I do think these are reasonable though

450 hp
380 lb ft
7500 rpm red line from a turbo 3.2l I6
3550 lbs
Active diff like on the M5/6
65k base in the US and fully loaded a bit over 80k (no ceramics if this car even is offered it)
+1 I think your guesstimates will be very close to reality.
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      10-04-2012, 04:11 PM   #61
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Very well done.

Any of the rear to really get us jazzed-up?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
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      10-04-2012, 04:12 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InterJon View Post
Sounding impressive. Now, if only they could do something about "M4".
agreed
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      10-04-2012, 04:18 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz View Post
Too little.
With n54 engines able to produce numbers in that range without a lot of work, this does not seem compelling. We are talking somewhere in the neighborhood of 65-70 large for one that isn't even maxed out with options.

Sorry, but the M5 got a real HP and torque bump.
This isn't anything to write home about. Not impressed......
Have you seen the power curve on the N54? They aren't just going to chip it for christsakes...

You all know BMW. This car will be engineered, balanced, tested and likely, superb. They told you it will have similar power to the old one but 100 MORE LB-FT of torque while weighing somewhere (reasonably) between 100-200lb+ LESS. This will be a fast car. As far as handling? Let's just remember that the E46 M3 did the same on the skidpad as the current 328i. I feel like I'm not the only one who is not concerned about holding his breath.
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      10-04-2012, 04:21 PM   #64
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That much more torque with no change in horsepower means it is going to have a very low (by m-car standards) redline.
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      10-04-2012, 04:23 PM   #65
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curb weight close to the E46 M3 my ass..
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      10-04-2012, 04:29 PM   #66
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Its funny all the people complaining about not getting 450hp. Don't forget that the E36 M3 had "only" 240hp, yet today, nearly 20yrs after its inception it is still lauded as one of the best handling cars ever made.

The E92 may have had 414hp, but its competition (C63, RS4/5) had more ponies and torque when the E92 was brand new. And it still beat them in performance.

Even now, 6yrs after the E92 has been introduced, the meager 414hp is STILL able to compete with (and in some instances beat) the current C63, Boss 302, and other cars in its segment that are way up on power.

An M car isn't only about power, its about feel, and the complete package that BMW delivers of perfection through sheer work of superior engineering.

Now don't get me wrong, 450hp would be pretty nice, and I would love to see a bump in power in the new one. However, it isn't really NECESSARY if the new M3/4 is gonna drop 300lbs and gain 100ftlbs.

In the face of all the complaints, just think about this: when has the M division disappointed us?
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