BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-04-2012, 07:47 PM   #89
dlbrooks18
Brigadier General
 
dlbrooks18's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 3,489
iTrader: (2)

2014 is so far away.. gonna be sick tho!
__________________

2008 E90 335
dlbrooks18 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 07:52 PM   #90
CanAutM3
Colonel
 
CanAutM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3 SS2 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

Posts: 2,733
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335 View Post
335's were beating m3s in a straight line while making the same or less horsepower. They all accelerated much faster due to the torque difference.
This new m3 will be much faster, 100ft pounds of torque makes a huge difference. And we all know this car is going to be underrated just like any turbocharged bmw.


Power to weight is what counts, period. It is a question of physics. If the car is properly driven that is.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 10-04-2012 at 08:05 PM.
CanAutM3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 07:53 PM   #91
CanAutM3
Colonel
 
CanAutM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3 SS2 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

Posts: 2,733
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Folks have already took most of the the words out of my mouth...

As NISFAN pointed out in another post these specs do not look very plausible.
The new engine will very likely redline in the 7500 rpm range (just a bit higher than the F10 M5). Similarly it should make constant torque to about 6500 rpm (the F10 M5 does so until almost 6000 rpm). However, 395 ft lb will make 420 hp at around only 5500 rpm. To not exceed a peak of 420 hp would require the torque to drop off steadily after 5000 rpm to only 315 ft lb at 7000 rpm along with a redline of 7000 rpm. Those simply do not seem like reasonable figures. If the engine makes torque and power curves anything like the M5 395 ft lb should make closer to 460 hp.

In short I do not at all buy 395 ft lb AND 420 hp.

Power to weight is what matters, period. Torque is relatively meaningless since you have to know gear ratios to make the torque something physically meaningful. That being said more torque does appear to lazy drivers who do not want to use their gearbox. With an 8 speed DCT this thing should maintain as high of an rpm as possible and take advantage of the DCT.

Weight claims: I also doubt they can achieve low 3400 lb range. It will just be too expensive to do so. Something in the 3500 range is more reasonable. However, it all depends on what the F30 335i obtains and I just have not seen a certain and final figure for that.

Power to Weight: 420 hp at 3415 lb would place the car right at about the F10 M5 power to weight although impressive, the current M3 has typically exceeded the prior generation M5 in power to weight. Something closer to 3550 lb with 450 hp is more reasonable solely from a trend perspective. Similarly there is still a power war of sorts going on. Most folks will just pass on the M3 if its power is so close or the same as the current generation car.

LOL at the comparisons between a tuned 335i and the next gen M3/4. Talk about not even a contest, strip nor track... This is almost a tautology isn't it. This is basically the same debate at tuned 335i > E92 M3 which only was the case under an aggressively tuned 335i and only at the drag strip.
+1 Fully agree with the analysis.
CanAutM3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 08:10 PM   #92
swamp2
Major General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 9,594
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post


Horsepower is what counts, period. It is a question of physics. (If the car is properly driven that is.)
+1.

No 335i modded with less power but more torque were out accelerating M3s. Well if their power to weight ratio was better perhaps you would get an even/drivers race. I get so tired of telling folks that crank torque is utterly meaningless. It is torque to the wheels (per weight of course) that matters and thus when taking into account gearing, that basically just turns out to be a long cut to simply talking about the engines peak power in the first place. The only time high crank torque matters is if at a given speed the torquier car can put down more torque to the wheels (again more power...). That can happen in some cases, but typically only when the wrong gear is chosen, i.e. bad driver. Of course there is always the highly insightful test of the 30 or 50 mph top gear roll on, in which again the high crank torque car may shine. Again, wrong gear for the job means poor performance - any car, it just can hurt low crank torque/high hp cars more.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 08:23 PM   #93
swamp2
Major General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 9,594
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosiers View Post
This is the company that used to preach in their marketing brochures that NA engines are superior to FI. RWD is superior to FWD or AWD. 50/50 weight distribution is key. Each one slowly going away.
I hope 50/50 does go away it never was and never will be the best for a sports/sporty car. In the range of 45F/55R -> 40F/60R is superior from the perspective of many aspects of handling. Just more BMW marketing BS that many of us have accepted as gospel.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 08:37 PM   #94
JHAKIMI
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 11 335d | 12 X5d | 13 EvoX GSR
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Plano, TX

Posts: 45
iTrader: (2)

Used GT-R will be my next M3/M4 or w/e they call it. E93 M3 will also be a keeper! Im sure it will be amazing, but $80k is approaching used supercar territory!
__________________
2013 Mitsubishi Evo X GSR [Wicked White | BONE STOCK
2011 335d [LeMans Blue | Black | MSport | JBD@80%]

2012 X5 35d [Saphire Black | OEM 20"s | JBD @75% ]
JHAKIMI is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 08:44 PM   #95
FogCityM3
Major
 
FogCityM3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 (E90)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,116
iTrader: (0)

Nice analysis. some point to M3's historically putting ~80-83% of the hp of the like-for-like generation M5, but was during times when the weight gain on both cars was proportionally similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Folks have already took most of the the words out of my mouth...

As NISFAN pointed out in another post these specs do not look very plausible.
The new engine will very likely redline in the 7500 rpm range (just a bit higher than the F10 M5). Similarly it should make constant torque to about 6500 rpm (the F10 M5 does so until almost 6000 rpm). However, 395 ft lb will make 420 hp at around only 5500 rpm. To not exceed a peak of 420 hp would require the torque to drop off steadily after 5000 rpm to only 315 ft lb at 7000 rpm along with a redline of 7000 rpm. Those simply do not seem like reasonable figures. If the engine makes torque and power curves anything like the M5 395 ft lb should make closer to 460 hp.

In short I do not at all buy 395 ft lb AND 420 hp.

Power to weight is what matters, period. Torque is relatively meaningless since you have to know gear ratios to make the torque something physically meaningful. That being said more torque does appear to lazy drivers who do not want to use their gearbox. With an 8 speed DCT this thing should maintain as high of an rpm as possible and take advantage of the DCT.

Weight claims: I also doubt they can achieve low 3400 lb range. It will just be too expensive to do so. Something in the 3500 range is more reasonable. However, it all depends on what the F30 335i obtains and I just have not seen a certain and final figure for that.

Power to Weight: 420 hp at 3415 lb would place the car right at about the F10 M5 power to weight although impressive, the current M3 has typically exceeded the prior generation M5 in power to weight. Something closer to 3550 lb with 450 hp is more reasonable solely from a trend perspective. Similarly there is still a power war of sorts going on. Most folks will just pass on the M3 if its power is so close or the same as the current generation car.

LOL at the comparisons between a tuned 335i and the next gen M3/4. Talk about not even a contest, strip nor track... This is almost a tautology isn't it. This is basically the same debate at tuned 335i > E92 M3 which only was the case under an aggressively tuned 335i and only at the drag strip.
FogCityM3 is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 08:45 PM   #96
Berardi3
Private
 
Drives: Mustang cobra 1993
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New jersey

Posts: 54
iTrader: (0)

Wow looks mean
Berardi3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 08:46 PM   #97
spiike32
Major
 
spiike32's Avatar
 
Drives: Monaco Blue E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: shy-town

Posts: 1,050
iTrader: (8)

I was thinking the same thing about the price. Rather pay a lil more and get this purely from a pricing perspective (unless the m4 really is truly awesome.)

Lamborghini gallardo sale
spiike32 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 08:51 PM   #98
jmunro
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ

Posts: 338
iTrader: (0)

This makes no sense. How can the new generation M3 have only a slight power bump over the 1M. The 1M will definitely weigh less, and is a "lower tier" M car as well as being an "older generation." I don't believe the 420/395 numbers for a second.

Unfortunately the "whole package" arguement only sells so many cars in the era of hp wars. The Mustang GT surely sends shivers down the spine of most M3 drivers these days, especially when the Mustang GT has near M3 handling....
jmunro is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 08:59 PM   #99
Eric335
Colonel
 
Eric335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 E92 SG 335i 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SW Florida

Posts: 2,485
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [3.83]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmunro
This makes no sense. How can the new generation M3 have only a slight power bump over the 1M. The 1M will definitely weigh less, and is a "lower tier" M car as well as being an "older generation." I don't believe the 420/395 numbers for a second.

Unfortunately the "whole package" arguement only sells so many cars in the era of hp wars. The Mustang GT surely sends shivers down the spine of most M3 drivers these days, especially when the Mustang GT has near M3 handling....
+1

i agree.

i love the direction the M4 is taking, but at that price point, it will be Gallardos all day
Eric335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 09:11 PM   #100
flanast
Private First Class
 
flanast's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Virginia

Posts: 151
iTrader: (0)

Don't get this. I'm not excited at all.
flanast is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 09:25 PM   #101
desertfox73
Newbie
 
Drives: 2010 E93 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas

Posts: 262
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbennettksu View Post
when are they finally going to show us what this monster looks like?
Hopefully soon...the more I see renders like this, the less interested I am. That front end is a mess...
__________________
2010 Jet Black/Fox Red E93 M3
2008 K1200S (2-wheel)
desertfox73 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #102
gblansten
Beandoc
 
gblansten's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 BMW M3 SSII/Black
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Thick ascending limb

Posts: 1,935
iTrader: (0)

I applaud BMW for getting the curb weight down. But, I hope they don't cheapen the stereo system to save weight. That could really impact how good the engine sounds.
gblansten is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 09:41 PM   #103
fuddman
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 528-maybe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California

Posts: 549
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
The new engine will very likely redline in the 7500 rpm range (just a bit higher than the F10 M5). Similarly it should make constant torque to about 6500 rpm (the F10 M5 does so until almost 6000 rpm). However, 395 ft lb will make 420 hp at around only 5500 rpm. To not exceed a peak of 420 hp would require the torque to drop off steadily after 5000 rpm to only 315 ft lb at 7000 rpm along with a redline of 7000 rpm. Those simply do not seem like reasonable figures. If the engine makes torque and power curves anything like the M5 395 ft lb should make closer to 460 hp.
Where are you coming up with all this stuff? Are you pulling it out of your hat?

You need to put some substantive proof behind your "very likely" numbers because, if for no other reason, your conclusions conflict directly with what the moderator said and he has a direct line to the people who are making the car.
fuddman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 09:43 PM   #104
bimmerjph
Lieutenant Colonel
 
bimmerjph's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tennessee

Posts: 1,926
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
Using it as a benchmark doesn't necessarily mean it will achieve E46 numbers/specs. What we should take from it is that it will likely lose weight which is already a plus given how BMW likes to beef up their cars as of late.

The ATS benchmarked the E46 but did it make an E46? No but the end result is still a fantastic car and something close to it.
I think GM benchmarked the E90 for the ATS, not the E46 .
No it was the E46, but it was a benchmark for how the car should feel to drive. It wasn't their performance benchmark though.
bimmerjph is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 10:00 PM   #105
AbuArije5
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: Non
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New York

Posts: 293
iTrader: (0)

What's the price tag on this???
AbuArije5 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 10:04 PM   #106
Capt Slow
Private
 
Capt Slow's Avatar
 
Drives: E39 530i Sport Individual
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: "The merry old land of Aus"

Posts: 83
iTrader: (0)

If BMW had released the F10 M5 weighing 300lbs less that the E60, with an extra 100lbs ft but still "only" 500hp. I doubt there would be many haters.

The 1 M surprised us all, it wins a hell of a lot of comparisons against some pretty damn good cars. With these specs it's likely that it will basically be in the weight range of a 1 M with an "American" driver, 420hp and 400ft lbs of torque, a stiffer chassis and M-DCT. Speed won't be a problem.

Just look at the engine bay strut braces and the super flat cornering in the ring videos... I think the ace up the new m3's sleeve will be its handling dynamics, which is what it is supposed to be about. If you want to drag race people, wrong brand.
__________________
"Smoke me a kipper,
I'll be back for breakfast."
Capt Slow is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 10:17 PM   #107
Frosty
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Frosty's Avatar
 
Drives: Ordered my E92 (7/10/06)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northern NJ

Posts: 1,905
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosiers View Post
Exactly. BMW may be overextending itself. Same thing happened to Cadillac in the 70's, Sony, Kodak...lots of once great companies can fall. Obviously BMW will be fine $ wise in the immediate future, but I think it'll be more along the lines of Infiniti, Acura, etc. Fuel efficiency and appealing to the soccer moms over all else.

This is the company that used to preach in their marketing brochures that NA engines are superior to FI. RWD is superior to FWD or AWD. 50/50 weight distribution is key. Each one slowly going away.

..overextension fears me as well.... BMW is a Toyota / Apple philosophy now.. hopefully will be more Apple than Toyota
__________________
.................................................. ....................
335i Coupe (6MT) (2007: 9/06 build, pre ordered, only owner): Space Grey / Black Leatherette / Grey Poplar trim / ZCW / ZSP / BMW assist w/ bluetooth / power rear shade / navi with iDrive / comfort access keyless entry /+homelink mirror/ 154,885+miles (Nov-12-2013)
.................................................. ......................
Frosty is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 10:22 PM   #108
Frosty
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Frosty's Avatar
 
Drives: Ordered my E92 (7/10/06)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northern NJ

Posts: 1,905
iTrader: (0)

how much weight can be saved with CFRP hood and trunk?
__________________
.................................................. ....................
335i Coupe (6MT) (2007: 9/06 build, pre ordered, only owner): Space Grey / Black Leatherette / Grey Poplar trim / ZCW / ZSP / BMW assist w/ bluetooth / power rear shade / navi with iDrive / comfort access keyless entry /+homelink mirror/ 154,885+miles (Nov-12-2013)
.................................................. ......................
Frosty is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 10:29 PM   #109
ZRODDICK
Private First Class
 
ZRODDICK's Avatar
 
Drives: WHITE E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: BROOKVILLE,NY

Posts: 184
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
sounds great. But I love my S65B40 more. IT"S NA!
__________________

AW E92 M3 08 DCT RPI GTM&AFE Stg2 BBS
ZRODDICK is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-04-2012, 10:53 PM   #110
nez
Private First Class
 
nez's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 m3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Melbourne

Posts: 171
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten
I applaud BMW for getting the curb weight down. But, I hope they don't cheapen the stereo system to save weight. That could really impact how good the engine sounds.
Lol. I see what you did there !
nez is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2013 bmw m3, 2013 bmw m4, 2013 m3, 2013 m4, 2014 bmw m3, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 torque, 2014 m3 weight, 2014 m4 torque, 2014 m4 weight, 2015 m4 torque, 2015 m4 weight, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, f80, f80 forum, f80 forums, f80 m3, f80 m3 forum, f80 m3 forums, f80 m3 sedan, f80 m3 torque, f80 m3 weight, f80 m4 weight, f82, f82 coupe, f82 forum, f82 forums, f82 m3, f82 m3 coupe, f82 m3 forum, f82 m4, f82 m4 coupe, f82 m4 forum, f82 m4 forums, f82 m4 torque, f83 m3, f83 m4

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:43 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST