M3 vs RS5 (Turbo 6 vs Turbo 8)

[M Pulse]

Anyone think that BMW will surprise us with a slightly detuned version of the turbo-V8 found in the F10 M5 for the upcoming F82? The reason I ask is that M3’s immediate competition is still producing V8’s (RS5, C63, IS-F, CTS-V).

As an example here is how I compare Audi vs BMW:
Audi A4 = BMW 328i/320i
Audi A4 S-Line = BMW 328i Sport Line
Audi S4/S5 = BMW 335is or M335i or 335i with M Sport Package or whatever they end-up calling it
Audi RS5 = BMW M3

Since the RS5 is a turbo V8 do you think BMW will stick a turbo V8 in the F82 M4? Do you think it’s possible that the M3 Sedan will come with a turbo V6 to compete with the S4 and the M4 will come with a turbo V8 to compete against the RS5?

I for one would love to see the next gen M3 with a turbo V8 instead of V6. Audi has decided to go with a turbo V8 in the RS5, S6, S7 & S8 so why can’t BMW share a slightly different turbo V8 across M3, M5 & M6? I don’t think that just because the M5/M6 already come with turbo V8's that the next gen M3 has to drop down to a turbo V6.

What do you guys think?

[chriscecc914]

Not gonna happen. The engine has already been spied and its clearly inline 6 turbo

See the F80/F82 engine pics here http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=744293

[Boostin FD]

Originally Posted by M Pulse

Anyone think that BMW will surprise us with a slightly detuned version of the turbo-V8 found in the F10 M5 for the upcoming F82? The reason I ask is that M3’s immediate competition is still producing V8’s (RS5, C63, IS-F, CTS-V).

As an example here is how I compare Audi vs BMW:
Audi A4 = BMW 328i/320i
Audi A4 S-Line = BMW 328i Sport Line
Audi S4/S5 = BMW 335is or M335i or 335i with M Sport Package or whatever they end-up calling it
Audi RS5 = BMW M3

Since the RS5 is a turbo V8 do you think BMW will stick a turbo V8 in the F82 M4? Do you think it’s possible that the M3 Sedan will come with a turbo V6 to compete with the S4 and the M4 will come with a turbo V8 to compete against the RS5?

I for one would love to see the next gen M3 with a turbo V8 instead of V6. Audi has decided to go with a turbo V8 in the RS5, S6, S7 & S8 so why can’t BMW share a slightly different turbo V8 across M3, M5 & M6? I don’t think that just because the M5/M6 already come with turbo V8's that the next gen M3 has to drop down to a turbo V6.

What do you guys think?

RS5 is not a turbo v8 dude... do a research first. it's a High reving V8 like M3 has now.

[M Pulse]

Originally Posted by Boostin FD

RS5 is not a turbo v8 dude... do a research first. it's a High reving V8 like M3 has now.

Sorry, typo. But my point is that the RS5 is still a V8, along with other competitors. So either BMW is leading the pack in this segment by switching to a turbo V6 or they're going to miss the boat.

I guess time will tell... if sales for the next-gen M3 don't live up to expectations and Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, Caddy all continue to have success against the M3 then I wonder if BMW will bring the V8 back?

[Red Bread]

Just curious how you'd explain the 911 Turbo or the GTR, both of which are faster than well, just about every naturally aspirated V8. Looking at only the straight line speed differential between the E60 and F10 M5's, I think any fear of the F8x cars being slow misplaced.

[PGT]

Audi is putting the 4.0T in the new S6 and S8.

edit - just read Audi's specs on the S8; 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and "top track speed" of 130mph. LOL. So, as soon as you pass through the 1/4 mile, you'll hit the governor. That's got to be a misprint.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by PGT

Audi is putting the 4.0T in the new S6 and S8.

edit - just read Audi's specs on the S8; 0-60 in 3.9 seconds and "top track speed" of 130mph. LOL. So, as soon as you pass through the 1/4 mile, you'll hit the governor. That's got to be a misprint.

It's a common governed speed, as it's the approved vMax for H rated tires, which many German sedans are fitted with for comfort, S-Class included. Plus it lets them upcharge for a "performance" package that bumps the governor to 155, the gentlemen's agreement for Autobahn speed limits (250kph).

Many non-sport package BMW's are governed to 130 too. It is odd that an Audi S is governed that low, but I bet it's due to the US tire choice.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by M Pulse

Sorry, typo. But my point is that the RS5 is still a V8, along with other competitors. So either BMW is leading the pack in this segment by switching to a turbo V6 or they're going to miss the boat.

I guess time will tell... if sales for the next-gen M3 don't live up to expectations and Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, Caddy all continue to have success against the M3 then I wonder if BMW will bring the V8 back?

Inline 6....Inline 6..........NOT a V6

I think you are missing the point of the M3. The C63 for example has had more power than an M3 since it came out a number of years ago (4 years?) 6.2 litre engine vs a 4litre. C63 is such a tail happy car, not fast round a track, too much power.
Unless the new M3/4 goes xDrive it doesn't need a Turbo V8 pushing out 500+ hp. A well sorted inline 6 Turbo will be fine

[tiltmode43]

Originally Posted by M Pulse

Sorry, typo. But my point is that the RS5 is still a V8, along with other competitors. So either BMW is leading the pack in this segment by switching to a turbo V6 or they're going to miss the boat.

I guess time will tell... if sales for the next-gen M3 don't live up to expectations and Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, Caddy all continue to have success against the M3 then I wonder if BMW will bring the V8 back?

Consider the E90 328i & F30 328i. BMW went from NA 6cyl to FI 4cyl but performance/potential was dramatically improved. Don't worry, have faith in the new M3

[M Pulse]

I've owned the E92 335i & E92 M3 and there is just something about the V8 that puts a smile on my face every morning. Don't get me wrong, I loved the low-end torque of the 335i but after taking the M3 for a test drive I couldn't leave the showroom without purchasing it. Everyday when I get behind the wheels of the M3 I feel like it's xmas morning. I guess I'm just sad to see the V8 go.

Might have to seriously consider the RS5 when the time comes to trade the M3. I'm such a huge fan of BMW and have never been into the IS-F (fake tailpipes) or C63 (Merc still considered an old man's car), so the closest thing I can see to the M3 is the RS5. I've never owned a Detroit built car so the CTS-V is out of the question for me.

But then all the alternatives (IS-F, RS5, C63) don't come in a traditional manual. Call me old fashion but I still prefer three pedals.

Who am I kidding, I'm not going anywhere BMW somehow I have the feeling I'm going to love the F82 just as much, if not even more than the E92. All I ask is please don't take away my beloved 3rd pedal!!!

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

C63 is such a tail happy car, not fast round a track, too much power.

Although I only have a little wheel time behind the C63 AMG it received quite good press coverage for its very good handling. Its problem is not too much power nor being particularly prone to oversteer. It is just heavy and perhaps a bit under tired. It is generally within 1-2 seconds per minute around a variety of tracks compared to the M3. In most cases that is more of a drivers race than a race among the cars themselves. So yes the M3 is generally faster on a track with less power but more importantly it has a better power to weight. And just like in a straight line, power to weight is the single best simple (one number) predictor of lap times.

Have a look here for some lap time comparisons.

[PGT]

there's 200lbs difference between an M3 and C63 Coupe. Not much when you're talking about 400+ hp. The Benz needs bigger rubber in the rear...it's only got 255's on 9" wheels. My E550 Coupe had a 5.5L V8 and also had 255's in the rear and it needed more. 275's fit great on both cars on the stock 19x9's

[ynotony]

If the production numbers of the M3 were was small as the RS5 and C63, maybe. I think BMW can't support another super high volume gas guzzler with the new EPA regulations. The RS5 and C63 are not as popular so they are free to be outliers.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Although I only have a little wheel time behind the C63 AMG it received quite good press coverage for its very good handling. Its problem is not too much power nor being particularly prone to oversteer. It is just heavy and perhaps a bit under tired. It is generally within 1-2 seconds per minute around a variety of tracks compared to the M3. In most cases that is more of a drivers race than a race among the cars themselves. So yes the M3 is generally faster on a track with less power but more importantly it has a better power to weight. And just like in a straight line, power to weight is the single best simple (one number) predictor of lap times.

Have a look here for some lap time comparisons.

No you are right about the C63 power.....afterall.......you CAN NEVER have too much power.

The C63 is nose heavy and tail light, which makes it understeer on turn in, and wildy oversteer under power. With a good driver behind the wheel, the C63 can hustle.

Put an average driver on track in a C63 and an M3 and you will get better times on M3. The M3's balance and idiot proof handling is much better than the C63. The M3 inspires confidence.

C63 is a hoot to drive, shares in a tyre company help, and the raw V8 soundtrack is soooo much better than M3 (IMO of course)

[Gjm127]

But that amazing V8 high-reving scream... You'll never get that from an I6. Yes, I consider sound as a highly important factor when I'll buy my next car.

And that just about does it for me... I'm going with the E92 V8 for my next car for a couple years and switch to the F82 when it'll be in its 3rd year od production.

I have to experience the V8 while it still looks good on the streets!

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Put an average driver on track in a C63 and an M3 and you will get better times on M3. The M3's balance and idiot proof handling is much better than the C63. The M3 inspires confidence.

C63 is a hoot to drive, shares in a tyre company help, and the raw V8 soundtrack is soooo much better than M3 (IMO of course)

Although I've never seen any such data it sounds very reasonable and likely.

Fully agree on the second point as well.

Cheers.