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      01-23-2013, 04:26 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gjm127 View Post
Horrible... Almost everything is wrong in these renders. So amateur....
Look at the exhaust tips, they just copy pasted it off the M5... and no hood buldge? We can say the same for the mirrors too. These guys think they can fool us haha...
Move on people, NOTHING to see here...
There apparently will be no hood bulge, but a hood 'vent'.

Last edited by IS3andME; 01-23-2013 at 04:33 AM.
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      01-23-2013, 06:18 AM   #90
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An attempt to push magazine sales?
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      01-23-2013, 10:57 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
There apparently will be no hood bulge, but a hood 'vent'.
Where did you hear this? I'd venture that your "info" is wrong. GJM already said he made a typo and meant to type "vent" not hood. Clearly there is a hood bulge in these pics and the latest test cars have it too.

As re the article, the written portion is pretty worthless but thanks hugely for posting the pics. Looks good, I'll be getting one.

Scott- can you confirm a CFRP roof for the sedan?
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      01-23-2013, 11:32 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arvid
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Originally Posted by steve79 View Post
I always read CAR on my Ipad, so i made some screenshots of the article about the new M3!



Thanks!!
I couldn't find car magazine on iPad, it was the South African version only.
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      01-23-2013, 02:23 PM   #93
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That vertical line for the hood and the front bump still bothers me on the 3 series... anyone else? It just doesn't fit.
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      01-23-2013, 02:32 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattgfx View Post
That vertical line for the hood and the front bump still bothers me on the 3 series... anyone else? It just doesn't fit.
You mean horizontal line near the roundel? Doesn't bother me in the least. It's a more-than-acceptable trade to get the sharper lines and move past the sickly yellow angel eyes on the E90s.
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      01-23-2013, 04:39 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattgfx View Post
That vertical line for the hood and the front bump still bothers me on the 3 series... anyone else? It just doesn't fit.
3 series?
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      01-23-2013, 05:14 PM   #96
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2011 BMW 1M  [5.00]
as we see now, very close to the concept m4!
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      01-23-2013, 07:10 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
That probably an misunderstanding ... the meen B38
Well that would make even less sense since the B38 is the three cylinder. the B68 (I accidentally typed B58 in my previous post) is the next I6 with which the B38 and B48 I4 will share 60% or more of its parts.

It is possible the new M engine will be a member of this family too but as I say, I am a bit skeptical.
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      01-23-2013, 08:42 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverDriven View Post
3 series?
Yup, he said 3-Series. What's your issue?

One thing though, the line is horizontal not vertical (unless your stood aside the front fender).

Still hoping for unique displacement, any word on this mkoesel, Scott?
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      01-24-2013, 01:35 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
m6 has that badge too i believe. I would like to see the double slat grill too.

render looks good but you can tell its just mirrored. and RHD?

Those side vents look fugly.
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      01-24-2013, 10:47 AM   #100
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Sucks cause there's nomore M3's! There gonna be called M4's now and keep the 3 series body but up the M's to number 4.. I think that BS
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      01-24-2013, 11:45 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limerockpark1of50 View Post
Sucks cause there's nomore M3's! There gonna be called M4's now and keep the 3 series body but up the M's to number 4.. I think that BS
Yes there is. The sedan will retain the M3 moniker.
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      01-24-2013, 04:08 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Well that would make even less sense since the B38 is the three cylinder. the B68 (I accidentally typed B58 in my previous post) is the next I6 with which the B38 and B48 I4 will share 60% or more of its parts.

It is possible the new M engine will be a member of this family too but as I say, I am a bit skeptical.
If the M3/M4 really gets an I6 engine, this be 100% for sure an member of the B68 family ... and if you unterstand the B68 simply as two B38 put together back to front, than you see that 450hp are posible, because the B38 in i8 form produces 226hp.

I see no chance that BMW/M-GmbH develops two different I6 engines ... and an "S68" based on the B68 would never reach 8.000rpm redline ... but there is an small possibility that two B38 blocks could also put together in V-form to use an S63T style turbo-system.
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      01-24-2013, 04:24 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Car Magazine claims these are real, but that's dubious considering their misrepresentation before about having the official E92 M3 photos, which turned out to be just a photoshop. The F80 M3 image even just uses the mirrors from the E90 M3 in the render.

Car's E92 M3 render which turned out to be inaccurate:






Current issue's F80 M3 renderings:

Attachment 810383

Attachment 810384

Attachment 810385


Recent spy photo:

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      01-24-2013, 05:22 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
If the M3/M4 really gets an I6 engine, this be 100% for sure an member of the B68 family...
I disagree. In the past there have been a number of M engines that were not based upon a current generation series engine. In fact, if the M I6 is indeed based upon the the B68, it will be the first ever M engine to my knowledge that debuts essentially right along side of a brand new series engine on which it is based. And actually, we don't even know if the B68 will debut this year with the F32 or not - this is still only speculation. If that does not happen then there is almost zero chance in my opinion that the new family will be introduced with the M3.
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      01-24-2013, 05:53 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
If the M3/M4 really gets an I6 engine, this be 100% for sure an member of the B68 family ... and if you unterstand the B68 simply as two B38 put together back to front, than you see that 450hp are posible, because the B38 in i8 form produces 226hp.

I see no chance that BMW/M-GmbH develops two different I6 engines ... and an "S68" based on the B68 would never reach 8.000rpm redline ... but there is an small possibility that two B38 blocks could also put together in V-form to use an S63T style turbo-system.
I'm not an expert in engine building. We use a relatively simple way of describing derivatives, like for example "the S65 is a S85 with two cylinders chopped off". It is not that simple as it sounds.

But what you say about two 3-cylinder put in V is quite possible. There were those engine specs of 3.2l I6 and 3.0l V6. We thought the V6 displacement was wrong because it would rather have been 3.3l, then we came to the conclussion that it could be based off the S65, the as you say, 1.5l I3 226 PS(B38) + 1.5l I3 226 PS (B38) = 3.0l V6 452 PS (B68) sounds just like it. Having seen the acceleration and sound vid of the 3 cylinder 1 series, it was amazingly fast. This could really be the engine. It means it would be lighter than a 3.3l V6 based on the S63.

The M3/M4 is the greatest engine enigma in car history.
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      01-25-2013, 03:26 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I disagree. In the past there have been a number of M engines that were not based upon a current generation series engine. In fact, if the M I6 is indeed based upon the the B68, it will be the first ever M engine to my knowledge that debuts essentially right along side of a brand new series engine on which it is based. And actually, we don't even know if the B68 will debut this year with the F32 or not - this is still only speculation. If that does not happen then there is almost zero chance in my opinion that the new family will be introduced with the M3.
BUT its real simple ... do you think BMW/M-GmbH would spend the money to develop (and produce) two totally different I6 engines of the same or nearly the same displacement side by side ... I would bet the simple answer is NO ... never!

SO ... if the M3/M4 gets an I6 the only logical conclusion is that it was based on the B38/48/68 engine platform ... and its also possible that an new engine debuts in m form ... look at the N63T which debuts in the M5 as S63T ... and also the other infos made sence ... that they would use the latest valvetronic system (like in the B38?).

FOR me there is only one reason for two totally different 6-cylinder-engines, build side by side and with the same displacement, ... an 3.0ltr.R6 BiTurbo for all .35i/.40i and M.35i/M.40i and an unique and stand alone 3.0ltr.V6 BiTurbo for the M3/M4 ... both based on the B38 platform with many common or common produced parts.

BUT we are already sure, that the new M3/M4 engine could only be an I6 !!!
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      01-25-2013, 08:34 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
BUT its real simple ... do you think BMW/M-GmbH would spend the money to develop (and produce) two totally different I6 engines of the same or nearly the same displacement side by side ... I would bet the simple answer is NO ... never!
As I said in my last post they have done it in the past. I'll point you toward the M52B30 and S50B32 for further reading. A similar (though not quite the same since M did very little work on the engine) situation happened more recently with the 1M which used the older N54 instead of the N55.

So, yes, I think a similar scenario is very possible today. All we know for sure is that the M engine will be based (however loosely) on an existing series engine. In theory, it could be the N54, N55 or B68. You are putting all of you eggs in one basket and committing yourself to latter as the only possibility. I am allowing for any of them, while suggesting the the N55 seems the most probable to me at this point.

Clearly the M engine could not have be based upon the new engine family if its development was not progressed far enough along yet when M started their work. The N54 and N55 on the other hand we know for certain are available and have been for years. We don't know exact development timelines for the newer engines (at least I don't, and I doubt you do either), so for now we cannot (at least I can't) make a conclusion yet.


Quote:
FOR me there is only one reason for two totally different 6-cylinder-engines, build side by side and with the same displacement, ... an 3.0ltr.R6 BiTurbo for all .35i/.40i and M.35i/M.40i and an unique and stand alone 3.0ltr.V6 BiTurbo for the M3/M4 ...
"Just to be different" does not provide a sound basis for a good business case, so I disagree with you on that particular point. The only justification I have ever been able to come up with for an M V6 is if there were a series V6 planned (which there is not - hence the M engine will be an I6).
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      01-25-2013, 08:56 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
As I said in my last post they have done it in the past. I'll point you toward the M52B30 and S50B32 for further reading. A similar (though not quite the same since M did very little work on the engine) situation happened more recently with the 1M which used the older N54 instead of the N55.

So, yes, I think a similar scenario is very possible today. All we know for sure is that the M engine will be based (however loosely) on an existing series engine. In theory, it could be the N54, N55 or B68. You are putting all of you eggs in one basket and committing yourself to latter as the only possibility. I am allowing for any of them, while suggesting the the N55 seems the most probable to me at this point.

Clearly the M engine could not have be based upon the new engine family if its development was not progressed far enough along yet when M started their work. The N54 and N55 on the other hand we know for certain are available and have been for years. We don't know exact development timelines for the newer engines (at least I don't, and I doubt you do either), so for now we cannot (at least I can't) make a conclusion yet.




"Just to be different" does not provide a sound basis for a good business case, so I disagree with you on that particular point. The only justification I have ever been able to come up with for an M V6 is if there were a series V6 planned (which there is not - hence the M engine will be an I6).
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      01-25-2013, 09:38 AM   #109
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But still, it is quite tempting to think about a mid-front mounted V6 in the M4.

It is also hard to understand how Mercedes AMG can build specific engines for different models; TC 2.0l I4 for the A AMG, TC 4.0l V8 for the C AMG, TC 6.0l V12 for S AMG, TC 5.5l V8 for E AMG, NA 5.5l V8 for SLK AMG.

M5/M6 engine is "ok". M3/M4 engine might be ok. But if M2 engine will be a tuned N55, that will be an EPIC fail for the second time (1M first EPIC fail). The M2 better get a special I4 or a detuned M3/M4 engine.
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      01-25-2013, 02:05 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
BUT its real simple ... do you think BMW/M-GmbH would spend the money to develop (and produce) two totally different I6 engines of the same or nearly the same displacement side by side ... I would bet the simple answer is NO ... never!
Infact S5X series engines are totally different, block are bored and longer than std. M5X series and its made on castiron, Crank got bigger main bearings, rods are totally differend, all engine parts are forged and cylinder head is special too, you cant bolt S5X cylinder head on M5X engine etc... Everything in engine is totally differend than standart M5x engine, so how can you say that they are only little modifed?
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