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      02-01-2013, 06:02 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
My point is that turbo engines inherently have high heat loads and are much more sensitive to heat.

I had an N54 and even in hot days in Canada she was blazing. I added the huge Dinan oil cooler and it still was hot.

BMW now is going to extract the most power they ever had out of that poor 3.0l I6. It is a risky recipe. I wish they had a better idea than an S55.

M3 drivers are not M5 drivers, its a totally diff crowd.
Again, I hope BMW's engineers read your thorough analysis of the differences in heating/cooling issues regarding turbo charged engines versus NA. This is probably news to them.
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      02-02-2013, 02:44 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
I am not necessarily disappointed in the lack of an increase of power. I am concerned about the massive increase in torque with no increase in power. I am afraid this might have a weird torque curve, or that it will have a super low redline (I was hoping for at least 7.5k). But who knows. There is a reason the engineers work for bmw and I don't....yet.
Check out GTR curve, 7k redline is fine and reasonable. Just imagine M3/S55 as a detuned version, nothing close to weird.
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      02-02-2013, 02:53 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Huh, No.

Max torque by itself is a meaningless number. Max HP is more representative of the accelerative capabilities of the engine. In general, same HP = same acceleration for a given weight.

However I do suspect that BMW will underrate this engine as it seems they have been doing so a lot recently.
What BWM'd been doing before FI is overrate its engine. i dont like the numbers they give to NA 3ers when they're actually slower than Reiz and Lexus IS, and rather say it was MCT that lose V8 420hp to only 340hp on wheel, i perfer to doubting 420 number itself.
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      02-02-2013, 02:56 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
+1

yet time and time again, lesser-powered ///M's have beaten amg's on all tracks, all drivers, all car mags.....
but not with you and me normal people driving in the street...
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      02-02-2013, 03:02 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post
Let's be realistic people, BMW is not going to release the next M3/M4 with the same amount of horse power as the current gen.

I'm guessing a minimum of +25hp a long with the torque increase
3.0L engine delivering 414 hp is a remarkable achievement, it's more or less a retrofited version of N54 with electric turbo for low end responsivness (no help on max hp). As we do all the mod we can to N54 only make it 450hp and we dont know if that engine durability can be ensured as a normal stock car.

So i say if you guys are looking at 450 or more, BMW can make it but will just leave the job to aftermarkets for warranty trouble.
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      02-02-2013, 03:10 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
My guess is that BMW, being a mass car producer (before anyone starts comparing with Ferrari and the likes), is aiming for benchmarks not in HP numbers, but in HP per liter, and in emissions per liter.
Sure BMW can aim all per liter things on 3er 5er 7ers, my guess is Mer is not made for being good at per things.
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      02-02-2013, 03:14 AM   #183
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Honest question...how is this different from a tuned N54 engine? And please note, I'm currently in an M3 and will probably get this one in a few years once the kinks are worked out. I'm just asking this because I came from a tuned 335i back in 2007 and loved the torque....but think this will feel pretty much the same. The weight advantage will be awesome though.
Dont know structural difference, but new engine is featuring an eletric turbo to keep other 2 normal turbos consistantly working even on low rpm.
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      02-02-2013, 08:39 AM   #184
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Dont know structural difference, but new engine is featuring an eletric turbo to keep other 2 normal turbos consistantly working even on low rpm.
This is still very speculative. We don't know what the induction setup will look like yet other than that it will feature more than one turbocharger.
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      02-02-2013, 11:59 AM   #185
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3.0L sounds weak. I am all for innovation and evolution, but give us something that can be worked with. I'm sure it can be modded, but how much more power can you get out of that little 3.0L without changing turbos and building the block. HPF s54 seems more appealing than this, power wise.
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      02-02-2013, 01:05 PM   #186
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not good enough for me will have to move up to 500 plus hp somewhere
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      02-02-2013, 03:41 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanwillnotreturn View Post
Check out GTR curve, 7k redline is fine and reasonable. Just imagine M3/S55 as a detuned version, nothing close to weird.
Your right. I have been thinking about it, and I think I was still imagining it with a 8.4k redline. That would make sense not having a higher hp number, but lots more torque, and a lower red line.
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      02-02-2013, 04:31 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by zenderm3 View Post
And maybe make it a NA V8 Frankly.. makes the decision tough to move from the current model for me (because as much as the specs are good, they aren't great and won't make a massive difference when driving on Roads... how many of us really Drag Hondas off at every set of lights....)

On the flip side, I am very interested to see how this looks... keen to perhaps own the M3 and keep her older sister the E92 M3 in the garage!
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      02-02-2013, 04:47 PM   #189
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I sincerely believe that the best recent M car since long time was 1M and that was the reason why I chose it over every other thing despite admiring the E9X M3. In fact, I was closer to buy a Boxster Spyder if 1M wouldn't be available. If BMW M division were able to rush up a "parts bin" car to this point of brilliance and fun I think we have all the reasons to be optimistic about the next M3 since it is benefiting from a much longer and thorough development process compared to the 1M which I consider as its principal test mule anyway.

But you never know, it may not succeed to go far beyond the mule or it may simply miss something essential while trying to please everyone everywhere. We have to wait and see if BMW will make the right calls about its "It Car". I have no doubt that it will be the most controversial and much debated M3 to date merely because of its engine vs. its predecessor's.
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      02-02-2013, 11:53 PM   #190
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Everything nowadays is bigger, heavier and more powerful.. but do the math and not much speed been gained. Power to weight is everything. I'd take an E30 M3 over many new "fast cars" the weight to power was a key there. BMW targeting the weight of E46 in the F8x is brilliant, I don't care about the horsepower being the same, the car will be considerably faster.
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      02-03-2013, 12:25 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
I sincerely believe that the best recent M car since long time was 1M and that was the reason why I chose it over every other thing despite admiring the E9X M3. In fact, I was closer to buy a Boxster Spyder if 1M wouldn't be available. If BMW M division were able to rush up a "parts bin" car to this point of brilliance and fun I think we have all the reasons to be optimistic about the next M3 since it is benefiting from a much longer and thorough development process compared to the 1M which I consider as its principal test mule anyway.

But you never know, it may not succeed to go far beyond the mule or it may simply miss something essential while trying to please everyone everywhere. We have to wait and see if BMW will make the right calls about its "It Car". I have no doubt that it will be the most controversial and much debated M3 to date merely because of its engine vs. its predecessor's.

+1

If the new M car is a lighter, more fuel-efficient, better looking and more powerful version of the stock 1M, then it will be a very VERY fun car to drive. It will be an improved 1M for the masses. And yes, as someone else said, alot of people will be unhappy about that - fortunately they can buy something NA from Ferrari instead.

But it begs another question. What will power the M2 then? Ie the successor to the 1M. A de-tuned version of the S55? If so, it will be the first time that the only major improvement we see moving into a new M is better fuel-efficiency. At least on paper.

Oh, and by the way, how can someone fully appreciate the fun qualities of the 1M, and in the same sentence say they were close to buying something as clinical as a Boxter?
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      02-03-2013, 03:49 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
I sincerely believe that the best recent M car since long time was 1M and that was the reason why I chose it over every other thing despite admiring the E9X M3. In fact, I was closer to buy a Boxster Spyder if 1M wouldn't be available. If BMW M division were able to rush up a "parts bin" car to this point of brilliance and fun I think we have all the reasons to be optimistic about the next M3 since it is benefiting from a much longer and thorough development process compared to the 1M which I consider as its principal test mule anyway.

But you never know, it may not succeed to go far beyond the mule or it may simply miss something essential while trying to please everyone everywhere. We have to wait and see if BMW will make the right calls about its "It Car". I have no doubt that it will be the most controversial and much debated M3 to date merely because of its engine vs. its predecessor's.
+1.

Lazy @ lower revs, bad brakes stock on trackdays , and minimal 300 pounds too heavy....my former E90 M3 was quite a bit of fun but doesn't come close to the 1M in many many many fun/sporty/hooliganic areas. I hope the next M3 will be more of a grown up 1M than a E9x M3 revival or a mini F10 M5...

Boxster and Caymans are more than great cars but I still prefer the 991. I think(?)

We'll see.


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      02-03-2013, 05:35 AM   #193
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      02-03-2013, 03:45 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Asbjørn View Post
+1

Oh, and by the way, how can someone fully appreciate the fun qualities of the 1M, and in the same sentence say they were close to buying something as clinical as a Boxter?
Well I like brunettes as well as blondes, never thought that was a problem. So, something like that
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      02-04-2013, 02:39 PM   #195
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New M3 is more suitable for people comming from a very big 5 series ///M5. Then the M3 and M4 slots nicely in.

But the new M3 will be far from a E30 or E36 and even the E46 M3. You need the 1M or maybe in the future the M2 for that.

The wheelbase of the new 3 series coupe is large. Too large if youre going to compare it to the E36 and E46 models for nice agile driving!

I also have owned an E90 M3. Nice engine but the car is to heavy and to big for agile handling.

New M3 will be even bigger. You do the math.

If youre in search of a smaller M5 then the new m3 is yours. If youre in search for a E36 and E46 ///M you need to wait for the M2.
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      02-04-2013, 04:51 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
New M3 is more suitable for people comming from a very big 5 series ///M5. Then the M3 and M4 slots nicely in.

But the new M3 will be far from a E30 or E36 and even the E46 M3. You need the 1M or maybe in the future the M2 for that.

The wheelbase of the new 3 series coupe is large. Too large if youre going to compare it to the E36 and E46 models for nice agile driving!

I also have owned an E90 M3. Nice engine but the car is to heavy and to big for agile handling.

New M3 will be even bigger. You do the math.

If youre in search of a smaller M5 then the new m3 is yours. If youre in search for a E36 and E46 ///M you need to wait for the M2.
It's a while I havn't seen you post. What would be you personal preference for the coming M2, a tuned N55 or an new lighter I4 M engine?
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      02-04-2013, 05:19 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
New M3 is more suitable for people comming from a very big 5 series ///M5. Then the M3 and M4 slots nicely in.

But the new M3 will be far from a E30 or E36 and even the E46 M3. You need the 1M or maybe in the future the M2 for that.

The current M3 (E92/E93) is "far from a E30 or E36". Fast and sounds good, sure. But certainly overweight, and not agile.

The F80 will probably just continue this trend. But that is what the market obviously wants.

Hey, there's still making Miatas
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      02-04-2013, 06:42 PM   #198
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Sam go test drive a 1M Coupe. Then we talk again.

Levi an i4 Turbo could be nice if they can get the numbers HP and NM of what an 1M coupe has atm. And even less turbo lag please. For agilily this will be better.

But i think it s better to go for a tuned down N55 from the M3. A 4 cil the turbo need do to more work so could be more lag. That s also not what you want.

You need a nice 6 cil engine which does al the hard work and let a little turbo help out from low down.
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