BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-19-2013, 10:56 AM   #1
Jason
Administrator
Jason's Avatar
United_States
6762
Rep
16,684
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Lightbulb BMW M Boss Talks AWD vs RWD, Manaul Transmission and Turbocharging for the Future

BIMMERPOST NEWS
BMW M Boss Talks AWD vs RWD, Manaul Transmission and Turbocharging for the Future
111
COMMENTS
Name:  bmw_m_logo_f01a.jpg
Views: 14289
Size:  27.9 KB

BMW M CEO Friedrich Nitschke gave some insight into certain aspects of future M models when speaking recently to Autocar.

AWD vs RWD

While current non-SUV M models all remain RWD, as horsepower numbers climb for each successive generation of models, the question has arisen whether future models would benefit from AWD xDrive offerings, to help with traction and getting all that power down to the ground effectively; especially considering the AWD offerings from competitors - such as the E63/CLS63 AMG 4Matic and upcoming RS6/RS7 Quattro models.

To this, Nitschke reaffirms M's stance on RWD: "Our philosophy in regards to steering feel and precision is that rear-wheel drive is the best solution," ... "xDrive brings an 80-90kg weight penalty and the M differential is the industry's best rear-drive set-up."

Manual Transmission

The M traditionalists/purists/self-rowers' fear is that as BMW M's dual clutch M-DCT transmission gets better by each generation, and as manual transmission take rates decrease, manual transmission will be eliminated as an option altogether. It hasn't happened yet, as the current M5, M6, M6 Gran Coupe, as well as the upcoming F80 M3 and F82 M4 all offer (or will offer) manual transmissions.

To this, Nitschke basically says it's on us (as customers). "From a production aspect, it would be much better to only offer the dual-clutch gearbox," said Nitschke. "But as long as there is demand, we'll offer the manual."

This does however, somewhat contradict with a report last year in which BMW M's head of engineering, Albert Biermann let on that there are no plans to fit the next generation M5 or M6 with a manual transmission.

Turbocharging

Finally, regarding the move away from naturally aspirated engines, Nitschke said: "It's not a change in philosophy, it's a change in technology. Turbocharging is better for fuel savings and CO2."

The F80 M3 / F82 M4 has been confirmed to be powered by an inline 6 cylinder multi-turbo engine, which looks to output 415hp.

Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:15 AM   #2
ThreeThirtyFiveI
Lieutenant
ThreeThirtyFiveI's Avatar
United_States
13
Rep
409
Posts

 
Drives: 13' Estoril II Blue 335i F30XM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Elmira, New York

iTrader: (7)

I'll take a F80 M3 xDrive with MT... please BMW.
__________________
Retired: 99' E46 323i AW / 06' E90 330i SG / 09'LCI E90 335i MB
Driving: 13' F30 / 335i / Msport /// xDrive / Estoril Blue II / Black / HexEstoril / ZMT / ZCW-ZDA-ZDH-ZPP-ZTP-337-688 /
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:17 AM   #3
MrClean335i
FBO+Methanol Injection
MrClean335i's Avatar
18
Rep
349
Posts

 
Drives: M Sport 335i
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Miami

iTrader: (0)

Nice. Cant wait for the M4
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:20 AM   #4
TheBingoBalls
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
19
Rep
1,821
Posts

 
Drives: E90 325i, R56 MINI Cooper
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

AWD vs. RWD.

Maybe not for the M3 and M4 but it's not going to be surprising when the M5, M6 (and it's variants) get both a RWD/AWD or just an AWD option. While the F10 M5 does a pretty good job (0-60 in 3.7 seconds in some tests) at handling all that power, eventually BMW will have to move to an AWD setup when they start approaching 600HP+. When that time comes, the forum is going to get a hell of a lot interesting with the RWD vs. AWD debate.

MT vs. AT/DCT.

BMW says it's all about the rate at which MT sold. That pretty much means the MT will end on all models other than the M3/M4. Shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

Turbocharging.

Nothing to be said. Naturally aspirated engines are pretty much gone from the BMW lineup with the exception of the E82 1-Series with the N52(?).
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:20 AM   #5
davesaddiction
is fast cars
davesaddiction's Avatar
United_States
34
Rep
1,601
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E90 M3 6MT SSII BPM Stg II
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tulsa

iTrader: (0)

"But as long as there is demand, we'll offer the manual."

Ominous-sounding... The reviews of the M5 manual have been pretty crappy - good way to reduce demand. Also, dual-clutch gearboxes seem to hide some of the downsides of forced induction. Comes down to the point that those of us that love driving manuals need to keep buying them.
__________________
Daddy's Rocket Sled! _
Clarkson: "It is... pretty much perfect... Why don't I have one of these cars?"
Harris: "The saloon is definitely the M3 of choice."
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:21 AM   #6
7 4 7
Private First Class
7 4 7's Avatar
8
Rep
111
Posts

 
Drives: F30 328i - Sportline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Mumbai, India

iTrader: (0)

RWD + M/T for life
__________________
HORSEPOWER SELLS CARS, TORQUE WINS RACES
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:21 AM   #7
Yodaime
Just a normal member.
Yodaime's Avatar
Vietnam
58
Rep
3,402
Posts

 
Drives: Banh Xeo
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisiana

iTrader: (12)

Mercedes Benz already got the new E63 AMG S with over 550hp and tq with AWD lol.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrrm1127 View Post
My life is complete. Yodaime has commented on a post with my car in it.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:23 AM   #8
RPiM5
Brigadier General
RPiM5's Avatar
95
Rep
4,886
Posts

 
Drives: Riviera Blue F10 M5(Mika)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Washington, D.C.

iTrader: (0)

As long as BMW ///M stays with RWD, I will stay with BMW ///M. I'm considering the next generatoin BMW ///M4 with a manual transmission for my next ///M. Can't wait to see what they deliver!
__________________
Why did Santa Claus buy a BMW M5 instead of an M4? Because he needed the back seats for his Ho Ho Ho's.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:25 AM   #9
thegeneral101
Colonel
United_States
30
Rep
2,302
Posts

 
Drives: '13 M3 LRE,'13 750Li
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Miami/Michigan

iTrader: (0)

I could definitely see the MT disappearing...but not until next generation. Nitschke basically gives himself an out with the "demand" comment. Who knows how they quantify "demand".
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:29 AM   #10
TheBingoBalls
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
19
Rep
1,821
Posts

 
Drives: E90 325i, R56 MINI Cooper
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaime View Post
Mercedes Benz already got the new E63 AMG S with over 550hp and tq with AWD lol.
AMG always had a "problem" with wheel spin so it's not surprising to see them switching to an AWD setup with the new E63 AMG now. But the fact that Mercedes is switching to 4Matic (as the only setup) just shows that in this segment, AWD is going to be a requirement.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:33 AM   #11
eMvy
Second Lieutenant
eMvy's Avatar
United_States
2
Rep
217
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 6MT & F25 X3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Tri-state area

iTrader: (0)

"It's not a change in philosophy, it's a change in technology. Turbocharging is better for fuel savings and CO2."

Forced induction has been around since the late 19th century. M cars have always had the opportunity to utilize FI, but they didn't. I would argue that this is a philosophical change fuel savings and CO2 emissions now take precedent over the driving experience. Whether this is good or bad can only be left to debate.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:37 AM   #12
davesaddiction
is fast cars
davesaddiction's Avatar
United_States
34
Rep
1,601
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E90 M3 6MT SSII BPM Stg II
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tulsa

iTrader: (0)

Anyone have sales numbers for the E9x M3 showing what % were sold with the manual? Would be interesting to see the difference in Europe vs. North America as well.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:41 AM   #13
M3 Esq
Lieutenant Colonel
M3 Esq's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
1,967
Posts

 
Drives: M3, 335i, X5
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

At least they are planning on sticking with RWD, at least in the short term.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:45 AM   #14
zamboni
I want to drive a Zamboni
zamboni's Avatar
United_States
45
Rep
3,248
Posts

 
Drives: 13 E93 M3 14 F30 335i
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Monte Sereno, CA

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by eMvy View Post
"It's not a change in philosophy, it's a change in technology. Turbocharging is better for fuel savings and CO2."

Forced induction has been around since the late 19th century. M cars have always had the opportunity to utilize FI, but they didn't. I would argue that this is a philosophical change fuel savings and CO2 emissions now take precedent over the driving experience. Whether this is good or bad can only be left to debate.
Glad to get the last NA V8.
__________________
14 F30 335i Melbourne Red
13 E93 M3 Melbourne Red
12 E93 Space Gray ( Retired BMW buy back )
2006 E90 ( sold ) 09 E82 Space Gray ( sold )
My next vehicle would be a Zamboni
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:51 AM   #15
cmd5626
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

 
Drives: 2000 323Ci Vert
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Finding a manual E92 M3 is extremely difficult as is finding an E46. Ever since the steptronic, smg, and dct came about, finding a car of the like is near impossible unless specifically ordered from factory. It's so sad.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:55 AM   #16
THE TECH
Lieutenant General
THE TECH's Avatar
United_States
157
Rep
13,121
Posts

 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
I think they are just pandering to the public in regards to the manual. With most automakers shifting (no pun intended) to the automatic/dct type transmissions, my guess is that the manual will become a thing of the past.

My guess is that dct to manual sales are probably in the 4:1 area or more.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:58 AM   #17
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
Netherlands
82
Rep
4,696
Posts

 
Drives: AW 1M , Assetto Corsa
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands, Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 4 7
RWD + M/T for life
+1.

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 11:59 AM   #18
Mako
2000 M Roadster (sold), 2006 M Coupe (sold)
United_States
42
Rep
1,336
Posts

 
Drives: '12 X3 35i M Spt '13 335 M Spt
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Audi S3/RS3 Sedan = AWD
Mercedes CLA AMG = AWD
Audi RS4/5 = AWD
Mercedes E/CLS AMG = AWD
Mercedes C63 next gen = ???
Porsche baby panamera (future) = AWD option

All the Germans are doing it, come on BMW, give me a M2GC or M4GC with AWD option.

I had a C63 for 3 years, and got by just fine in the winter with winter tires, but switched to a 335 xdrive this year and LOVE it (also with winter tires), so much more fun to drive in the winter than the C63 was because of the increased traction when accelerating and in turns.

I think BMW is going to be suprised to see how many potential buyers go to Mercedes because of their AWD offering. Audi has been stealing customers for years because of it. AMG, M, S/RS all make amazing vehichles, can't say the same for all their "normal" cars though.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 12:02 PM   #19
1sikbmr
Brigadier General
1sikbmr's Avatar
46
Rep
3,283
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New York

iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
I think they are just pandering to the public in regards to the manual. With most automakers shifting (no pun intended) to the automatic/dct type transmissions, my guess is that the manual will become a thing of the past.

My guess is that dct to manual sales are probably in the 4:1 area or more.
really? when shopping around in the tri-state 80% of the M3's were manual. I had to look very hard to find a DCT. I really hope the manual lives on forever.
__________________

E90 ///M3 6MT Atlantis Blue - Fox red #TEAMMODE
ESS VT1-550|Volk TE37|Recaro|STOPTECH|Ohlins R/T|Mode Carbon GT4 Lip|Umnitza V4 |Agency Power/Sosi/ACM Test Pipes|BMW PSW V1|
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 12:04 PM   #20
THE TECH
Lieutenant General
THE TECH's Avatar
United_States
157
Rep
13,121
Posts

 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sikbmr View Post
really? when shopping around in the tri-state 80% of the M3's were manual. I had to look very hard to find a DCT. I really hope the manual lives on forever.
Are you talking new or used?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 12:06 PM   #21
1sikbmr
Brigadier General
1sikbmr's Avatar
46
Rep
3,283
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New York

iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
Are you talking new or used?
both. what was on the showroom floor as new and what came back from lease.
this was in 2010 though.
__________________

E90 ///M3 6MT Atlantis Blue - Fox red #TEAMMODE
ESS VT1-550|Volk TE37|Recaro|STOPTECH|Ohlins R/T|Mode Carbon GT4 Lip|Umnitza V4 |Agency Power/Sosi/ACM Test Pipes|BMW PSW V1|
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2013, 12:07 PM   #22
THE TECH
Lieutenant General
THE TECH's Avatar
United_States
157
Rep
13,121
Posts

 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sikbmr View Post
both. what was on the showroom floor as new and what came back from lease.
this was in 2010 though.
Well cars sitting on the showroom floor unsold would mean that their counterparts were the desired models likely.
__________________
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:25 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST