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      06-17-2013, 06:48 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
If you want a car that will beat the GTR off the line, it is going to have to be AWD. The M3/M4 is not just about straight line performance. Never has been. FWIW, from a roll, an M6 will pull on a GTR.
I wasn't talking about straight line, that is the problem. How close to an airstrip does the Nurburgring looks to you ? I thought so.
7:24.22: Nissan GT-R (2011) 12/2010

I know there was a time when bashing the GT-R was acceptable. But it has more than proven itself, it has built a very solid reputation and benchmark. Sure it has a launch start, bet the M4 will too. I was talking about closed circuit track, not straight line.

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Power figures and drag strip numbers is of very limited interest to me when you go FI. Heck BMW pulled 1300 hp out of a 1.5l TC 4 banger already in the 1980s. We all know that a TC M car will be very powerful stock and a total beast with a tune. Focus changes to how the power is delivered with FI, I.e how lag free and responsive it is and how well it holds power towards an elevated redline. That is IMO what will determine how great of an FI M engine it is, not if it can hang with a GTR on the strip.
I won't hold my breath for the M4 to even come close to the GT-R nurburgring lap time or any other closed circuit race track. In fact the PGT2 RS is struggling keeping up. But it is usually the lesser cars owner that don't like to give credit were credit is due.
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      06-18-2013, 07:46 AM   #24
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I know there was a time when bashing the GT-R was acceptable.
Is that a accurate characterization of the present discussion?

Without taking sides, I'd say that there have been some reasonable points made by yourself, and also reasonable counterpoints made by others. I don't see bashing here. However, I do think that the GTR is an arbitrary car as a basis for comparison, at least in the context of an absolute measuring stick for the M4s legitimacy. And it isn't really on-topic for this thread. If you want to start another thread about it, sure (though there may already be one which you can add to). Later when we have a "vs." forum here, such threads will be moved to it.
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      06-18-2013, 01:04 PM   #25
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I for one love the GTR. It's a legimate supercar for almost entry level sports car price. I just think there are far more important things for BMW to focus on when trying to make the new M3 an epic drivers car than scrambling to try to beat the GTR around the ring or on the drag strip. I.e I'm not bashing the GTR in anyway, rather the opposite, it's a performance bar so high that I think trying to equal or better it risks moving focus off other more important challenges with the new M3 as FI and EPS.
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      06-18-2013, 07:39 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by sunsweet View Post
I wasn't talking about straight line, that is the problem. How close to an airstrip does the Nurburgring looks to you ? I thought so.
7:24.22: Nissan GT-R (2011) 12/2010

I know there was a time when bashing the GT-R was acceptable. But it has more than proven itself, it has built a very solid reputation and benchmark. Sure it has a launch start, bet the M4 will too. I was talking about closed circuit track, not straight line.
...
Agreed but the GT-R is even better than that. Your information is old. The 2013 GT-R did Nurburgring in 7:18.60. The only cars that have beaten it are: two Radicals (6:48.00 and 6:55.00), the Gumpert Apollo Sport (7:11.57), the Dodge Viper ACR (7:12.13), the Porsche 918 Spyder (7:14.00), the Lexus LFA Nurburgring Edition (7:14.64), the Donkervoort D8 RS (7:14.89) and Porsche 911 GT2 RS (7:18.00). That's it. This is extreme company.

As you can see, a lot of these are practically racing cars or supercars. The M3/M4 is premium indeed but isn't close to being in this super league.

However, this isn't about the GT-R, so on topic, I'm sure the M3 will look aggressive and perform better than the E90/92 M3, but if they can keep the weight to 3300lbs or less, that will catch my attention. Also good to know they'll continue to offer the manual gearbox.
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      06-19-2013, 01:06 AM   #27
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Agreed but the GT-R is even better than that. Your information is old. The 2013 GT-R did Nurburgring in 7:18.60. The only cars that have beaten it are: two Radicals (6:48.00 and 6:55.00), the Gumpert Apollo Sport (7:11.57), the Dodge Viper ACR (7:12.13), the Porsche 918 Spyder (7:14.00), the Lexus LFA Nurburgring Edition (7:14.64), the Donkervoort D8 RS (7:14.89) and Porsche 911 GT2 RS (7:18.00). That's it. This is extreme company.

As you can see, a lot of these are practically racing cars or supercars. The M3/M4 is premium indeed but isn't close to being in this super league.

However, this isn't about the GT-R, so on topic, I'm sure the M3 will look aggressive and perform better than the E90/92 M3, but if they can keep the weight to 3300lbs or less, that will catch my attention. Also good to know they'll continue to offer the manual gearbox.
Thank you for pointing out the fastest GT-R ring time, it seems that even wikipedia updaters can not keep up.
To discuss expectations for the M4/M3 comparing it to the E92 isn't enough.
It is a given that it will/has to be incrementally faster. But if Bmw did their work well, as Porsche has in its latest 2014 GT3 edition. They must have reversed engineered the GT-R to pieces to design the M4. The GT3 now has the dynamic control on all 4 wheels (only 2 wheels on previous GT3) same as the GT-R did in 2008. It has only the PDK option and they've added back wheel steering to the equation. If they follow the same recipe for the turbo version then watch out GT-R. Without 4 wheel traction control the M4 would have to be impossibly lighter to still be a believable contender in that league.
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