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      07-25-2013, 04:02 PM   #23
swamp2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear From Jax View Post
A turbo for ever 2 cylinders.... massive potential... but complex... I can't wait to see the schematics on this engine (if it's true). I'm still more interested in the M2 when it comes out, but this thing is going to be lovely I'm sure.... Minus the electric steering, unless they've solved the feel problem like Porsche did with the new GT3. Time will tell...
The patent (non production) for a triple turbo BMW has filed (patent details) is not 1 turbo for each of 3 groups of 2 cylinders. It is a conventional twin turbo with the third providing reduction in turbo lag.
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      07-25-2013, 07:56 PM   #24
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[quote=rave426;14386461]Not sure if serious or super-troll

QUOTE]

Certainly no troll here, just a humble opinion about BMW's engineering prowess.
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      07-28-2013, 10:51 AM   #25
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Certainly no troll here, just a humble opinion about BMW's engineering prowess.
The only issue is that they add lead when they do it.
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      07-28-2013, 12:23 PM   #26
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I don't see the point of 3 turbos. Imagine the exhaust manifold, and the hot piping to the intercooler. It's gonna look ridiculous. Let's see how this pans out
3 turbos means that one turbo will feed two cylinders. This means that the turbos can be small, and hence will spool quickly to minimize turbo lag. And yet, they will be able to move enough volume of air to produce adequate boost since only two cylinders are being boosted per turbo.

I am not all concerned about the technology as long as the heat management is adequate.
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      07-28-2013, 12:29 PM   #27
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I think the F80/F82 is all about heat management. If they can cool the oil and have it last through a track day then the car should be a success.

My concern is testing on the 'ring gives plenty of opportunity for cooling whereas most tracks in NA are shorter, slower and tighter.
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      07-28-2013, 12:39 PM   #28
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My guess is that IF we get 3 turbos it will be a sequential system with two small turbos in parallel feeding one larger turbo. This would generate power at a wider rpm range than three parallel turbos and allow for a higher useful redline.
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      07-28-2013, 01:47 PM   #29
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Not sure why so much speculation on the turbo configuration. If it has 3 turbos they will almost for sure to be as per BMWs patent I posted just above.
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      08-05-2013, 10:33 PM   #30
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3 turbos? You guys are kidding...right?
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      08-06-2013, 08:13 AM   #31
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Quote:
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3 turbos? You guys are kidding...right?
https://www.google.com/search?q=bmw+n57s

It is not as far-fetched as you make it seem.
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      08-08-2013, 10:19 PM   #32
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Well I guess thats considered "multi-turbo"
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      08-13-2013, 12:38 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear From Jax View Post
A turbo for ever 2 cylinders.... massive potential... but complex... I can't wait to see the schematics on this engine (if it's true). I'm still more interested in the M2 when it comes out, but this thing is going to be lovely I'm sure.... Minus the electric steering, unless they've solved the feel problem like Porsche did with the new GT3. Time will tell...
The patent (non production) for a triple turbo BMW has filed (patent details) is not 1 turbo for each of 3 groups of 2 cylinders. It is a conventional twin turbo with the third providing reduction in turbo lag.
I remember seeing the patent drawing a while back and if I remember correctly the third turbo may not be a turbo at all but an electric motor used to spool up the turbos. Once they are spooled to speed the electric motor is disconnected from the turbos via electromagnetic clutches.

This system would allow the usage of bigger turbos which wouldn't run out of breath at higher RPMs, (remember "near 8000 rpm") and also reduce, (possibly eliminate) turbo lag.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I think we are going to see something new !
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      08-13-2013, 11:52 PM   #34
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The only issue is that they add lead when they do it.
Ah, no you're talking about the marketing department not the engineers
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      08-15-2013, 12:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
The patent (non production) for a triple turbo BMW has filed (patent details) is not 1 turbo for each of 3 groups of 2 cylinders. It is a conventional twin turbo with the third providing reduction in turbo lag.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, some superchargers are powered by electric motors, correct? Which greatly reduces lag. So is this design basically eliminating the turbo lag by 'supercharging' the twin turbos?
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      08-15-2013, 12:42 PM   #36
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Quote:
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Correct me if I'm wrong but, some superchargers are powered by electric motors, correct?
Not in any production automobile that I am aware of, no.

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Which greatly reduces lag.
There is no lag. A supercharger is not powered by exhaust gas, so it does not have lag as demonstrated by a turbocharger.

Quote:
So is this design basically eliminating the turbo lag by 'supercharging' the twin turbos?
In a manner of speaking, yes.

The reason to use a turbocharger vs. a supercharger is that it does not rob power from the engine in order to spin its turbine. The reason not to simply fix this by using a purely electric supercharger is that the energy storage required to power it would be very heavy. So, you combine the ideas by using an electrically assisted turbocharger (or system of them in some combination).
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      08-15-2013, 01:53 PM   #37
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Confucius once told me..."Cars with 3 turbos are better than cars with none"
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      08-15-2013, 05:57 PM   #38
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BMW is always first out of the gate with ground breaking designs, whether it is aesthetics or engineering, BMW always takes the risks other manufacturers will not.

I have not been this excited in a long time about a new BMW model!
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      08-15-2013, 06:04 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Not in any production automobile that I am aware of, no.
The article referenced below states that electric superchargers use
"an electrically powered forced-air system that contains an electric motor to pressurize the intake air".
What am I missing? Are these not used in production cars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_supercharger
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      08-15-2013, 06:35 PM   #40
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They are indeed not used in any production car or truck that I am aware of. They may be used in some production engine for some application; that I don't know. I seem to remember reading about their use in either air or marine applications in the past, but I don't recall details.

But there aren't many production supercharged cars today anyway. Still, even if we look at aftermarket solutions of which there are a good many, I am not aware of any with electrical assist. Perhaps they were tried out sometime over the past 100 or so years. Today, though, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichReg View Post
The article referenced below states that electric superchargers use
"an electrically powered forced-air system that contains an electric motor to pressurize the intake air".
What am I missing? Are these not used in production cars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_supercharger
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      08-16-2013, 12:43 AM   #41
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I don't see the point of 3 turbos. Imagine the exhaust manifold, and the hot piping to the intercooler. It's gonna look ridiculous. Let's see how this pans out
According to the latest issue of "Road & Track" magazine, they are planning to use 3 "tiny turbos" that will allow a quicker response than two small turbos or one large turbo. As another poster mentioned, the goal is to keep turbo lag to a bare minimum.
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