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      09-28-2013, 12:23 PM   #45
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420 HP is a lot for a factory 6 cylinder. The S4 is "only" rated at 330 HP from the factory, dynos at close to 350, and tunes to 420 with $1000 of software and nothing else. This car should do 490 HP on 91 pump with no issues.

It may even dyno at 450 from the factory.

Last edited by gee-m-w; 09-28-2013 at 12:49 PM.
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      09-28-2013, 12:47 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Nope, it wouldn't.

Despite adjusting the gearing (through final drive) and redline, doubling the torque (say from 300 to 600 ft lb) has nearly no impact on overall performance. However maintaining a 8000 or 8000+ redline would be pretty much impossible, perhaps 6000 or 7000 is even mathematically possible. Such a car would then reach around 400 hp way down at about half of the current actual cars redline!

Either way the cars 1/4 mile time and trap (compared to a regular M3) would be within a few tenths and a couple mph. The torque monster could, depending on the final drive ration get a decent jump on the actual car perhaps below about 50 mph (if traction was even possible). Most other major performance metrics would be very similar. Also the torque monster could do in 6th gear that the real car would need to begin in 3rd, but they would achieve about the same net result.

Why is all this the case, again simply because the cars would have the same (peak) power to weight ratio.
But, an engine with same peak power achieved when the torque is dropping like a stone, therefore has higher torque earlier in the rev range will be faster
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      09-28-2013, 02:23 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by paddy335 View Post
Are led tail lights lighter or something? Why does it matter what they are?
Instant light up, seems modern and "expensive" compared to normal ones which blink.


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      11-26-2013, 12:11 PM   #48
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M3 M4 Competition Package?

Pluuuuhh-easssse tell me there will be a Competition Package. Will it be available at the initial release of the M4? Does anyone know if it will be similar to the M5/M6 package in terms of setup and hp increase?

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      11-26-2013, 12:20 PM   #49
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There's really no firm info out there about this yet. In my opinion they will offer one but not until 2015 at the earliest.
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      11-26-2013, 12:24 PM   #50
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2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Competition package usually comes out at least 2 years after the original model release year to fix and refresh things
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      11-26-2013, 01:56 PM   #51
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no info yet. Most likely us dealers will start to get ANY info sometime beginning of the year after the launch in Jan.
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      11-26-2013, 05:00 PM   #52
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No reason not to offer it in Fall 2013. Leaving money on the table if you only offer it for 4 years instead of 6 years.
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      11-27-2013, 10:36 AM   #53
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Why does everybody want upgraded performance and to throw $$$$ before the baseline car is even released? Thats like the Corvette guy who wants a z06 corvette for an extra 20 grand before he even drives the Stingray!!
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      11-27-2013, 10:44 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbockrd View Post
Why does everybody want upgraded performance and to throw $$$$ before the baseline car is even released? Thats like the Corvette guy who wants a z06 corvette for an extra 20 grand before he even drives the Stingray!!
Because it's higher performance.

It sounds like I'm being sarcastic about this, but I'm not. Even knowing absolutely nothing about what the "upgraded" package (whether it be the M3 Competition Package, or the Z06) is like, you can be sure that--by the nature of it being the higher performance package--it will be higher performance.

Many people who like a car prefer to purchase it in the highest performance trim possible. There's no reason to wait for that. Some people won't feel the need for the Competition Package, and they can still purchase the base model if they feel so inclined. For those who DO want the competition package, though, if they purchase the base model (because they like the car) and the Competition Package arrives 1 year later (with news of the competition package's arrival not coming until AFTER they purchase), they will feel jilted by BMW.
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      11-27-2013, 11:05 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
Because it's higher performance.

It sounds like I'm being sarcastic about this, but I'm not. Even knowing absolutely nothing about what the "upgraded" package (whether it be the M3 Competition Package, or the Z06) is like, you can be sure that--by the nature of it being the higher performance package--it will be higher performance.

Many people who like a car prefer to purchase it in the highest performance trim possible. There's no reason to wait for that. Some people won't feel the need for the Competition Package, and they can still purchase the base model if they feel so inclined. For those who DO want the competition package, though, if they purchase the base model (because they like the car) and the Competition Package arrives 1 year later (with news of the competition package's arrival not coming until AFTER they purchase), they will feel jilted by BMW.
Understood. I don't see the competition package as a trim level, so I get your point. I see it for the track and to some just for the wheels. I seldom track my car. I wish I had more time to get into it. Thanks for the reply
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      11-27-2013, 12:08 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
Because it's higher performance.

It sounds like I'm being sarcastic about this, but I'm not. Even knowing absolutely nothing about what the "upgraded" package (whether it be the M3 Competition Package, or the Z06) is like, you can be sure that--by the nature of it being the higher performance package--it will be higher performance.

Many people who like a car prefer to purchase it in the highest performance trim possible. There's no reason to wait for that. Some people won't feel the need for the Competition Package, and they can still purchase the base model if they feel so inclined. For those who DO want the competition package, though, if they purchase the base model (because they like the car) and the Competition Package arrives 1 year later (with news of the competition package's arrival not coming until AFTER they purchase), they will feel jilted by BMW.
Agree with your point about people wanting to purchase the highest trim on any car, but understand that BMW isn't purposely holding the Competition Package back. Just like Corvette isn't holding the Z06 and ZR1 back now that the base C7 is out. Good development of any product means bringing the minimum viable option to market as quickly as possible. In BMW's case, that's the base M3. Once development on the base M3 is done, the engineers responsible for the car can go back and focus on the development of higher trim levels serially, whether it's the Competition Package, the new lightweight CSL/GTS variant, or something else entirely.

If they had it ready to go, it'd be on the market. But they're not going to sit on the base M3 while developing the Competition Package so that they can release both at the same time.
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      11-27-2013, 12:28 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
Because it's higher performance.

It sounds like I'm being sarcastic about this, but I'm not. Even knowing absolutely nothing about what the "upgraded" package (whether it be the M3 Competition Package, or the Z06) is like, you can be sure that--by the nature of it being the higher performance package--it will be higher performance.

Many people who like a car prefer to purchase it in the highest performance trim possible. There's no reason to wait for that. Some people won't feel the need for the Competition Package, and they can still purchase the base model if they feel so inclined. For those who DO want the competition package, though, if they purchase the base model (because they like the car) and the Competition Package arrives 1 year later (with news of the competition package's arrival not coming until AFTER they purchase), they will feel jilted by BMW.
Agree with your point about people wanting to purchase the highest trim on any car, but understand that BMW isn't purposely holding the Competition Package back. Just like Corvette isn't holding the Z06 and ZR1 back now that the base C7 is out. Good development of any product means bringing the minimum viable option to market as quickly as possible. In BMW's case, that's the base M3. Once development on the base M3 is done, the engineers responsible for the car can go back and focus on the development of higher trim levels serially, whether it's the Competition Package, the new lightweight CSL/GTS variant, or something else entirely.

If they had it ready to go, it'd be on the market. But they're not going to sit on the base M3 while developing the Competition Package so that they can release both at the same time.
If you thought I disagreed with this, you misunderstand me. I believe everything you've said is true.

Regardless, people STILL want to know ASAP when the Competition Package (or Z06, etc) is arriving because they will STILL feel jilted if it shows up 1 year later. And, on BMW's side, despite not intentionally "holding back" the competition package, it IS in their best interests to keep it's arrival date hush-hush because they don't want to encourage potential buyers to wait.
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      11-27-2013, 12:40 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
... if it shows up 1 year later.
Why do you think it will be a year later? It has always shown up at least 2 to 3 years after launch.


Cheers.
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      11-27-2013, 12:47 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
Why do you think it will be a year later? It has always shown up at least 2 to 3 years after launch.


Cheers.
I don't think it will be a year later. I'm talking about the person who purchases an M3 without knowing the arrival date of the competition package only to have it hit ground a year later (given the timeline of BMW's previous announcements, I believe this often holds true). Probably even more annoyingly, for some purchasers this means they order their M3 without the competition package being available and without having heard when the option will become available....only to have the option become available a few months down the line (after they can't make any changes to the order, but still months before their car will arrive).

And yes, we can continue to guess when the competition package will arrive, but anywhere from 18 months to 36 months (since we don't actually know) makes a big difference in whether people purchase now or wait.
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      11-27-2013, 12:52 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
I'm talking about the person who purchases an M3 without knowing the arrival date of the competition package only to have it hit ground a year later (given the timeline of BMW's previous announcements, I believe this often holds true).
There will always be something new.


Cheers.
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      11-27-2013, 01:01 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
There will always be something new.


Cheers.
Haha fair enough, but we'll still try hard as hell to figure out when the competition package hits!
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      11-27-2013, 02:15 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
I don't think it will be a year later. I'm talking about the person who purchases an M3 without knowing the arrival date of the competition package only to have it hit ground a year later (given the timeline of BMW's previous announcements, I believe this often holds true). Probably even more annoyingly, for some purchasers this means they order their M3 without the competition package being available and without having heard when the option will become available....only to have the option become available a few months down the line (after they can't make any changes to the order, but still months before their car will arrive).

And yes, we can continue to guess when the competition package will arrive, but anywhere from 18 months to 36 months (since we don't actually know) makes a big difference in whether people purchase now or wait.
I agree 100%. If I buy in fall 2014 and the Competition Package becomes available in fall 2015, I'll flip . But I guess from BMW's perspective, they don't want to affect sales of the base model. So I understand the logic, but it's still nerve-racking.
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      11-27-2013, 03:43 PM   #63
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Even if you get a competition package car, when Dinan releases a tune you're going to also want that anyways.
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      11-27-2013, 03:56 PM   #64
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the F10/12 M5/6 competition package came out 1 year after the initial introductory production year. Yes there will always be something new, but seeing as how each production model lasts 5-6 years, I'd rather have something new come out 4 years later than 1 year later, know what i'm saying?
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      11-27-2013, 04:05 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbockrd View Post
Why does everybody want upgraded performance and to throw $$$$ before the baseline car is even released? Thats like the Corvette guy who wants a z06 corvette for an extra 20 grand before he even drives the Stingray!!
look at what the performance package is.

your corvette example is to extreme . all you get with comp package is most likely better look rims, slightly more power, more tuned suspension, maybe slightly lower ride height.

where a Z06 is on another level.
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      11-27-2013, 08:31 PM   #66
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The competition package is not a big deal. Honestly, I'd rather spend the money on a set of BBS wheels and some Bilsteins, save some money, and have a much better looking/performing car than a Competition Package car.

But I do agree that it is idiotic that BMW routinely holds back things from the first year or two of a new model. They're the only car company that does this.
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