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      10-31-2013, 07:33 AM   #23
olmy
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Of course the proof is in the driving but on paper at least BMW appear to have invested a surprising amount of effort in improving the manual.

In case anyone missed it in the pages of specs:

"The engine sends its power to the wheels through a six-speed manual gearbox as standard. This gearbox is significantly more compact than its predecessor and 12 kilograms lighter, allowing it to assist the car’s optimum – virtually 50:50 – weight distribution. As a means of increasing shift comfort, the manual gearbox uses innovative new carbon friction linings in its synchroniser rings. Dry sump lubrication provides an efficient supply of oil to all parts of the gearbox. The new gearbox also works a lot more quietly than before and blips the throttle on downshifts – previously a feature reserved for the M Double Clutch Transmission. This engagement speed control function helps to enhance stability and was originally developed by motor sport engineers."

-- http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=892746
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      10-31-2013, 07:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wajhik View Post
Yeah we arent too worried about it, we have a very unique dealership, most of our sales people are 15+ years with long client list that continuously trade. We all work under the same roof even though we are franchised BMW, Porsche and Mbenz.

Regardless, really excited.

Yas Marina Blue, Black Extended Merino

Lighting Package
Executive Package
19" 437 in black
Adaptive M Suspension
Harmon Kardon
Enhanced Bluetooth (why thats an option with standard nav I dont know...$$$)

and of course manual transmission, should be an awesome car.
That is a perfectly optioned car right there! I love it, although I'd go F80.

As for which I'd chose, because I already have an MT, I'd lean on going DCT to compliment my E92. Having said that, if this was my only car, I'd go MT. Personally, I've never had any issues with the 1-2 shift (and this is after driving a 991 C2S). The clutch pedal can definitely be stiffer, but I've gotten so used to M that I can shift quickly and smoothly, unlike some of the people that have been reporting that issue.

Also, it depends on how long you want to keep the car. I'm at 75k and I really like not worrying about the transmission. I know that shouldn't be one of the things that will fail first.
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      10-31-2013, 07:40 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Dealerships get early access in order to have the car built and on the lot for the product kickoff.
Do packages offered in those early builds mirror the ones that will be offred to us? I certainly hope not, I can't stand headlight washers in executive package.
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      10-31-2013, 07:46 AM   #26
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^^nobody knows that info yet
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      10-31-2013, 10:56 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olmy View Post
Of course the proof is in the driving but on paper at least BMW appear to have invested a surprising amount of effort in improving the manual.

In case anyone missed it in the pages of specs:

"The engine sends its power to the wheels through a six-speed manual gearbox as standard. This gearbox is significantly more compact than its predecessor and 12 kilograms lighter, allowing it to assist the car’s optimum – virtually 50:50 – weight distribution. As a means of increasing shift comfort, the manual gearbox uses innovative new carbon friction linings in its synchroniser rings. Dry sump lubrication provides an efficient supply of oil to all parts of the gearbox. The new gearbox also works a lot more quietly than before and blips the throttle on downshifts – previously a feature reserved for the M Double Clutch Transmission. This engagement speed control function helps to enhance stability and was originally developed by motor sport engineers."

-- http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=892746
It's nice to see that BMW actually spent some effort on the manual at all, but as you say, the proof will be in the pudding. As an aside, comments like "increasing shift comfort" actually make me a bit wary. While this might sound counterintuitive, I actually want a manual transmission to be notchy and mechanical, not smooth and vague. Same with it being quieter than before -- you could hear every shift made in the S2000, and it provided a very satisfying *clink* sound to reinforce to the driver what was going on. Again: involving good, vague bad.
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      10-31-2013, 11:06 AM   #28
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Fun fact, all the M cars in the M Performance school right now have the DCT. The only manual car recently was the 1M which they swapped for the M6 a year or two back. I wish that would've been available instead of the M6 when I went but I can't say I felt a huge loss with that swap...

As much 'fun' as driving a manual can be, the DCT is awe inspiring. Something to be said about the instantaneous change of gears at the flick of a finger. My first experience with one was in the M5 on the track and I was sold before even getting in the M3.

For me a manual is fun, but for every day driving and raw performance, I'd opt for the DCT every time.
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      10-31-2013, 11:06 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
How did you order a car that wasn't even released yet?
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=14
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      10-31-2013, 11:11 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wajhik View Post
Sat down and configured our first M4...decided with the Yas Marina blue, and stick...

When talking about the M5, even pure manual enthusiest like myself have trouble defending the stick in a 560hp car, but in an m3/4 chassis we thought a manual would be the best, and of course most exciting route.

Interested in hearing your guys thoughts.
Most likely going MT, myself. While the E9X manual is only so-so, still much more fun than DCT except on the track, IMO. With the refinements promised with the new MT, I'm staying old school. Ought to be at 50-75 lbs lighter as another plus (would like to know the exact figure) and fewer electronics to go out.
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      10-31-2013, 02:33 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wajhik View Post
I think even when the 6MT is an afterthought like it was on the m5, it still provides the feel that the driver is looking for. Basically with these cars surpassing 5-6 and even 700hp they become very difficult to tame with a manual....even if we think the preliminary numbers are understated, the fact that manuals are becoming so scarce in all sports car lines we decided our first one should be a stick.
Right on....one day in the not very distant future MT's will only exist in used cars (or ultra-niche cars), so get them while you can. People debate the minutiae of MT vs DCT, but I am sure either will be great in the M3/4.

Old school rules.

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      10-31-2013, 05:50 PM   #32
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If the car is sweet to drive with 6MT, then that will be awesome. I can't believe that BMW spent serious effort on the manual tranny only to make it vague. I'm optimistic...
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      10-31-2013, 06:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
Fun fact, all the M cars in the M Performance school right now have the DCT. The only manual car recently was the 1M which they swapped for the M6 a year or two back. I wish that would've been available instead of the M6 when I went but I can't say I felt a huge loss with that swap...

As much 'fun' as driving a manual can be, the DCT is awe inspiring. Something to be said about the instantaneous change of gears at the flick of a finger. My first experience with one was in the M5 on the track and I was sold before even getting in the M3.

For me a manual is fun, but for every day driving and raw performance, I'd opt for the DCT every time.
m performance school having all dct is mostly because they dont want to go through burnt clutches.. dct is much more fool proof. also much easier to teach track driving not having to worry about heel n toe..
99% of buyers dont need extra tenth on the track.. there is no argument that manual creates higher enjoyment and connection to the vehicle.
one time i bought a car w/o manual i regreted it. since then its no brainer for me to go manual every time.
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      10-31-2013, 09:44 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixse View Post
m performance school having all dct is mostly because they dont want to go through burnt clutches..
Don't forget about avoiding "money shifts", as well!
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      10-31-2013, 10:40 PM   #35
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i love my DCT, was worryied about getting bored. NEVER DID. its fun is a different way. i find my self shifting and downshifting a lot cuz its so easy. not to mention the car sounds great up shifts and downshifts.

the only way i would want a manual is if the car was stupid fast and it didn't matter (GT500) . the M4 might need every thing it can get to compete. which means DCT is what i would get most likly.
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      10-31-2013, 11:47 PM   #36
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Manual Tranny will be checked on my order.
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      11-01-2013, 09:31 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixse View Post
m performance school having all dct is mostly because they dont want to go through burnt clutches.. dct is much more fool proof. also much easier to teach track driving not having to worry about heel n toe..
Obviously, manual comes down to personal preference. As far as the m perf school, I can't say for sure why they didn't offer it, but my impression from the instructors was that it was that they wanted to offer the highest offering of M cars BMW had to offer, which meant the cars would have DCT if it were offered.

The 1M they used to have didn't have that option and they included heel to toe instruction as part of the advertisement. I honestly don't think they care about burnt clutches or maintenance of any kind. They discussed how many tires they go through, people wrecking cars (we didn't have this but one in my group did get off the skid pad far enough to be in the grass that his car needed to get towed out which was amusing - x drive where are ya when we need ya!?), and brakes/roters, one of my M5s parking brake got stuck/frozen at one point when we switched cars, it wouldn't move lol. After me messing with it and giving it some gas after the car said it was disengaged it still didn't move. The instructor got in and floored it and it sounded like something broke, but he was like "you're good to go, just was stuck!". Every car we got in had every option checked, I mean seriously they could've left off the B&O stereo's as we didn't even turn them on once. The oldest cars out there had 3k miles on them with a lifetime mpg of 5. They don't keep them out there that long and sell them in auction after cleaning them up and making them 'as new' as they can. I just don't see a burnt clutch causing them worry with as much they spend on other things.

Sorry to derail, if you love a manual and want that experience every time you get in your car, then it's a no brainer. But there are plenty of folks that would prefer the DCT and there is no doubt that it provides a performance increase.
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      11-01-2013, 09:33 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
i love my DCT, was worryied about getting bored. NEVER DID. its fun is a different way. i find my self shifting and downshifting a lot cuz its so easy. not to mention the car sounds great up shifts and downshifts.

the only way i would want a manual is if the car was stupid fast and it didn't matter (GT500) . the M4 might need every thing it can get to compete. which means DCT is what i would get most likly.
Funny you mention the GT500. If it had a DCT like the M3 or 335is I would be driving one right now. While a blast for a weekend cruise, a manual for every day driving just isn't for me.
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      11-02-2013, 03:34 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3
With the very broad power plateau of the S55 compared to the peakier power curve of the S65, the shorter ratios of the DCT will have less benefits on the F8X.

Further, according to the press release, the 6MT on the F8X is a brand new desing shaving 26lb compared to the previous 6MT. This means that a 6MT equiped F8X will have a 70lb advantage over a DCT car (assuming the DCT on the F8X is a carry over from the E9X). This is not negligible.

From a performance perspective, the DCT still has the benefits of the shorter gearing, quicker (instantaneous) shifts and ability to keep both hands on the steering wheel. But I feel the DCT will not provide as much of a performance advantage as it did on the E9X.

I am still on fence on which one to order
+1

DCT makes sense with high revving s65 and F1 theme.

6MT makes sense with low end torque of s55 and no need to keep revs high.
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      11-02-2013, 04:05 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by imserious View Post
+1

DCT makes sense with high revving s65 and F1 theme.

6MT makes sense with low end torque of s55 and no need to keep revs high.
Thats like saying you have a diesel so you should just get a slushbox.
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      11-02-2013, 11:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle
Fun fact, all the M cars in the M Performance school right now have the DCT. The only manual car recently was the 1M which they swapped for the M6 a year or two back. I wish that would've been available instead of the M6 when I went but I can't say I felt a huge loss with that swap...

As much 'fun' as driving a manual can be, the DCT is awe inspiring. Something to be said about the instantaneous change of gears at the flick of a finger. My first experience with one was in the M5 on the track and I was sold before even getting in the M3.

For me a manual is fun, but for every day driving and raw performance, I'd opt for the DCT every time.
Yeah....because not every M owner can drive a manual (...or drive one good). DCT was the safe bet for the performance school(s) so that nobody would leave feeling like they didn't enjoy themselves. That was MY impression when I attended a few years ago and when I went to VIR.
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      11-03-2013, 09:02 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbolag
Quote:
Originally Posted by imserious View Post
+1

DCT makes sense with high revving s65 and F1 theme.

6MT makes sense with low end torque of s55 and no need to keep revs high.
Thats like saying you have a diesel so you should just get a slushbox.
Funny you say that. Turbo engines these days are being tuned to behave like diesels.

However, slush box is never the right answer
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      11-03-2013, 01:48 PM   #43
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I have driven my E46 M3 for 10 years. I love the SMG in it even though it is known to jerk your head off when it is driven hard. DCT will be that much better. I am going to get DCT. And it has 7 gears!

Another reason I won't buy a Porsche or Audi is because their + and - on the stick is reverse of BMW's. BMW's "push forward to downshift and pull back to upshift" just makes more sense. Or at least that is what I am used to.
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      11-03-2013, 02:01 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post

Another reason I won't buy a Porsche or Audi is because their + and - on the stick is reverse of BMW's. BMW's "push forward to downshift and pull back to upshift" just makes more sense. Or at least that is what I am used to.
Porsche switched this last year.
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