M4 GTS Tested by Jeremy Clarkson on The Grand Tour

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

You just beat me to your comment about women and the M3. I had a 2016 YMB M3 and had a number of women ask about the color and compliment me on the car. May be the baby blue had something to do with it. I did love that color myself (only had blue M3s)
Just sold it for a white M4 gts (no blue available) and I am curious what the reactions (if any) will be from women to a white car with orange wheels and a wing...
Will keep you posted...

At least you purchased your GTS in the best color available for it.

[jpdchicago]

Thanks!
At least it will be easier to keep clean than the Frozen Dark Grey (another great color for it)

[Brindle101]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Thanks!
At least it will be easier to keep clean than the Frozen Dark Grey (another great color for it)

Actually the dark frozen grey is easy to keep clean. It doesn't show the dirt so easily and just wash it with matte soap, dry gingerly with microfiber cloth.


No rubbing/buffing

[paradoxical3]

Clarkson is pure entertainment, he has zero credentials to actually review cars for the critical thinking performance enthusiast. I enjoy watching him, but I don't take anything he says seriously. I am fairly confident I would put bus lengths on him around any race track in the world.

What he says about steering feel is complete BS. I own a M2 (which he LOVED the steering feel of) and I looked at the coding files on my laptop. The M2 shares the exact same CAFD values as the M4 GTS, while the regular M4 is different. So he loved the M2 steering feel yet hated the GTS, when in reality they are the same....

➜ steering diff CAFD_00001A2F_000_002_010-preeurogts CAFD_00001A2F_000_002_010-postGTS
34c34
< SIGNATURE: value [00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00]
---
> SIGNATURE: UNKNOWN [00 00 00 20 7A 71 C6 16 13 2F B9 76 B0 4A 47 78 B8 4E 4B AC 29 EF 61 24 6E F9 03 6D E8 C0 B8 A9 78 58 CB B8 0E B5 9E F4 D0 AB 63 15 30 EB 0E E3 7E A4 1B C3 B5 36 87 9F 85 97 05 C2 8E BD 32 01 91 F3 3A E2 0A 09 5D 9C 6C 5F A5 3F 8C 7F 1A D1 48 26 46 D1 CD A2 D7 CD 4C 17 85 CC 5D FE 90 4E 99 C3 25 FE 21 2D D7 15 45 0F 2D 3A 64 6D 02 0B 0C E4 C3 F5 5D 19 7B 9A CD 24 A6 A5 20 1B B7 98 61 8D 10 10]
37c37
< Variantencodierung Normal: F80, F82, default [01]
---
> Variantencodierung Normal: F87, F82GTS [04]

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Not only that but he chose the i8 over the M3 in an older top gear when comparing the two.

This is what's wrong with the news channels these days. They report everything to make it sound opposite of what was intended. I am not sure if you saw the comparison (i8 vs M3) or if you did not understand what he said or if you're intentionally trying to spread false information.

He compared the M3 and i8 and stated that the i8 is one for the future while the M3 is the best of the present. Something on those lines.

He's appreciated a lot of M cars in the past (1M, M3 CSL, M135i, M2 etc.). Agreed, his reviews are sometimes funny to some people and not very technical spec oriented (I don't enjoy his reviews anymore either). I've driven the M4 GTS a few times and get nervous and excited every time I get inside it and probably don't agree with him.

There is a reason why so many people watch his shows and car manufacturers offer their cars to be reviewed. If people thought he was prejudiced, that wouldn't be the case.

Looking at your posts on the M4 GTS, if anything, it looks like you're the one who's prejudiced.

[Fahrvergnügen]

There's a reason why there are 20+ seasons of Top Gear with the original trio and Grand Tour seems to be successful... and it's not because any of the guys are great at performance testing cars. The show is genuinely interesting and fun to watch even if you aren't really into cars. It is definitely not where people should go to get technical professional performance reviews of cars. Jezza himself is slower than Simon Cowell as seen on one of the shows.

I'm surprised the guys didn't go off-roading in the M4GTS.

[RandyC54]

I am absolutely SHOCKED at how much attention my GTS in Frozen Grey gets from both women and teenage kids. Doesn't do me any good, but it is really a big surprise.

[Brindle101]

Originally Posted by RandyC151

I am absolutely SHOCKED at how much attention my GTS in Frozen Grey gets from both women and teenage kids. Doesn't do me any good, but it is really a big surprise.

You must be married, take the attention anyway. You can mess with them and tell them the paint changes to a different color at a certain temp, hahah...,unless they are like my wife who knows everything about cars. Then they will call you out on it. Lol.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Clarkson is pure entertainment, he has zero credentials to actually review cars for the critical thinking performance enthusiast. I enjoy watching him, but I don't take anything he says seriously. I am fairly confident I would put bus lengths on him around any race track in the world.

What he says about steering feel is complete BS. I own a M2 (which he LOVED the steering feel of) and I looked at the coding files on my laptop. The M2 shares the exact same CAFD values as the M4 GTS, while the regular M4 is different. So he loved the M2 steering feel yet hated the GTS, when in reality they are the same....

➜ steering diff CAFD_00001A2F_000_002_010-preeurogts CAFD_00001A2F_000_002_010-postGTS
34c34
< SIGNATURE: value [00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00]
---
> SIGNATURE: UNKNOWN [00 00 00 20 7A 71 C6 16 13 2F B9 76 B0 4A 47 78 B8 4E 4B AC 29 EF 61 24 6E F9 03 6D E8 C0 B8 A9 78 58 CB B8 0E B5 9E F4 D0 AB 63 15 30 EB 0E E3 7E A4 1B C3 B5 36 87 9F 85 97 05 C2 8E BD 32 01 91 F3 3A E2 0A 09 5D 9C 6C 5F A5 3F 8C 7F 1A D1 48 26 46 D1 CD A2 D7 CD 4C 17 85 CC 5D FE 90 4E 99 C3 25 FE 21 2D D7 15 45 0F 2D 3A 64 6D 02 0B 0C E4 C3 F5 5D 19 7B 9A CD 24 A6 A5 20 1B B7 98 61 8D 10 10]
37c37
< Variantencodierung Normal: F80, F82, default [01]
---
> Variantencodierung Normal: F87, F82GTS [04]

I'm no expert in this but even if same value, I would think it will feel different in different car no?

[RandyC54]

Originally Posted by Brindle101

You must be married, take the attention anyway. You can mess with them and tell them the paint changes to a different color at a certain temp, hahah...,unless they are like my wife who knows everything about cars. Then they will call you out on it. Lol.

Yeah, my wife understands I don't have time or money for a girlfriend because of my cars, so it's a win-win.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

I'm no expert in this but even if same value, I would think it will feel different in different car no?

Yes, but the M2 should feel worse. Stiffer dampers, stiffer bushings, stiffer sidewall tires, and other things like that should directly translate to more steering feel for the GTS, not less.

The actual power steering map in the M2 and GTS are the same, so considering the GTS lighter weight and better suspension, it should have more feedback than the M2. There is really no scenario where it can't unless Clarkson has figured out how to defy physics.

As a M2 owner, I prefer the sound of the N55 vs. the GTS engine. But everything else about the GTS I really respect, and those who actually understand how to use the car as intended (on the track) will appreciate the adjustability and aero instead of bitching about how their starbucks latte spills when they hit a speed bump in manhattan. The journalists who are giving it bad reviews just aren't really good drivers for the most part, or haven't been given enough time to dial in the car on track. I had a $5k JRZ suspension in my previous car - I could make it so stiff it would rattle your teeth out, or I could make it softer than stock and floaty. It's all in the adjustability, and considering many of these journalists are posting pictures of the car on track with the aerofoil backwards, I have very little faith that they dialed the car in before reviewing.

Many of these journalists simply aren't very good drivers who understand how to simultaneously tweak suspension and aero to get the desired handling response. This obviously does not apply to the select few with racing background.

[redux]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Yes, but the M2 should feel worse. Stiffer dampers, stiffer bushings, stiffer sidewall tires, and other things like that should directly translate to more steering feel for the GTS, not less.

The actual power steering map in the M2 and GTS are the same, so considering the GTS lighter weight and better suspension, it should have more feedback than the M2. There is really no scenario where it can't unless Clarkson has figured out how to defy physics.

As a M2 owner, I prefer the sound of the N55 vs. the GTS engine. But everything else about the GTS I really respect, and those who actually understand how to use the car as intended (on the track) will appreciate the adjustability and aero instead of bitching about how their starbucks latte spills when they hit a speed bump in manhattan. The journalists who are giving it bad reviews just aren't really good drivers for the most part, or haven't been given enough time to dial in the car on track. I had a $5k JRZ suspension in my previous car - I could make it so stiff it would rattle your teeth out, or I could make it softer than stock and floaty. It's all in the adjustability, and considering many of these journalists are posting pictures of the car on track with the aerofoil backwards, I have very little faith that they dialed the car in before reviewing.

Many of these journalists simply aren't very good drivers who understand how to simultaneously tweak suspension and aero to get the desired handling response. This obviously does not apply to the select few with racing background.

Or...... You don't understand the effect massive changes to suspension kinematics and different tires can have on feel. "Stiffer ______" is not always the solution.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by redux

Or...... You don't understand the effect massive changes to suspension kinematics and different tires can have on feel. "Stiffer ______" is not always the solution.

It may not be the ideal solution in terms of grip, but it will never result in less feel. I have progressively swapped every bushing, mount, and damper on my car one-by one and while sometimes you don't get it right, you never get less steering feel by removing rubber in between you in the road. Period.

[redux]

Motion ratios, lever mechanical advantage, and such all come into play. BMW has made some substantial changes to the front end of the GTS, so there's more to it than just some rubber. There many factors that could have been changed we may not know about...... I guess you get a cookie for swapping the bushings and dampers in your car. It's not like anyone else has done the same.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by redux

Motion ratios, lever mechanical advantage, and such all come into play. BMW has made some substantial changes to the front end of the GTS,

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1123

All parts cross reference with standard M4, there are no substantial changes at all. Wishbones are the same, subframe is the same, damper top mounts are the same, etc, etc.

Stop pretending we are comparing two different cars here, the chassis are virtually identical. The dampers are a direct swap onto both the M4 and the M2 (though I chose higher performing ones from MCS instead). And of course, even if you were right (which you are not) it doesn't explain the vast disparity between US and EU reviewers. But I guess you get a cookie for having neither of the cars we are talking about and still internet arguing over them.

[Bimmed Out]

Amazed to see this thread is still going. 23 pages long now, and 24 more than Clarkson deserves.

[redux]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1123

All parts cross reference with standard M4, there are no substantial changes at all. Wishbones are the same, subframe is the same, damper top mounts are the same, etc, etc.

Stop pretending we are comparing two different cars here, the chassis are virtually identical. The dampers are a direct swap onto both the M4 and the M2 (though I chose higher performing ones from MCS instead). And of course, even if you were right (which you are not) it doesn't explain the vast disparity between US and EU reviewers. But I guess you get a cookie for having neither of the cars we are talking about and still internet arguing over them.

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1121

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1292



I love cookies

[RandyC54]

Originally Posted by kepler

Amazed to see this thread is still going. 23 pages long now, and 24 more than Clarkson deserves.

It devolved from Clarkson long ago. It seems to be just a random discussion area now.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1123

All parts cross reference with standard M4, there are no substantial changes at all. Wishbones are the same, subframe is the same, damper top mounts are the same, etc, etc.

Stop pretending we are comparing two different cars here, the chassis are virtually identical. The dampers are a direct swap onto both the M4 and the M2 (though I chose higher performing ones from MCS instead). And of course, even if you were right (which you are not) it doesn't explain the vast disparity between US and EU reviewers. But I guess you get a cookie for having neither of the cars we are talking about and still internet arguing over them.

The front hub carriers on the GTS are different than on the regular M3/4, which yield a wider front track. That will definitely have an effect on steering feel and feedback.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The front hub carriers on the GTS are different than on the regular M3/4, which yield a wider front track. That will definitely have an effect on steering feel and feedback.

Aha, you've found the answer to why the GTS steering sucks! A slightly wider front hub carrier!

This is really devolving into the ridiculous.

[schnell325]

The steering on this POS GTS that I wished I'd never have bought and regret it every day is actually so much more positive and driver orientated versus my pedestrian F80 M3

[redux]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The front hub carriers on the GTS are different than on the regular M3/4, which yield a wider front track. That will definitely have an effect on steering feel and feedback.

Shhhhh! You've got to let people find out things themselves. Giving hints and seeing where people take it makes the forum far more entertaining.