R44 Performance
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M4 GTS Discussions

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-22-2017, 02:26 AM   #507
schnell325
Bored at work....
schnell325's Avatar
Canada
887
Rep
5,378
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 GTS//2022 M235iGC
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Comox Valley

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by redux View Post
Shhhhh! You've got to let people find out things themselves. Giving hints and seeing where people take it makes the forum far more entertaining.

Exactly !!

Imagine his influence on the F8x forum versus the GTS forum!!

I am a very avid follower of CanAut on the suspension sub forum .... and I know I'm quicker because of his input ✔️✔️✔️
__________________
Grey Matter:2008 E92 M3:608/425. SG/PS SOLD!
Dark Matter:2015 F80 M3:495/505. SOLD!
Anti Matter :2016 F82 M4 GTS
What next?!? A 2022 M235i GC- I must be getting old
Appreciate 2
VCP1390.00
M4_GTS1152.50
      02-22-2017, 03:23 AM   #508
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Aha, you've found the answer to why the GTS steering sucks! A slightly wider front hub carrier!

This is really devolving into the ridiculous.


Don't put words in my mouth. I cannot comment on the M4 GTS' steering feel because I have not driven one. I am not stating if those changes make the steering better or worse. What I did is correct a misstated fact where there are indeed difference between the GTS and base M3/4 front suspension geometry. But if you think that has no effect one steering feel an feedback, I suggest you look-up scrub radius, caster and Ackerman angle to start with.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 02-22-2017 at 04:41 AM..
Appreciate 1
M-Pilot4859.00
      02-22-2017, 07:34 AM   #509
paradoxical3
Lieutenant Colonel
1008
Rep
1,563
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post


Don't put words in my mouth. I cannot comment on the M4 GTS' steering feel because I have not driven one. I am not stating if those changes make the steering better or worse. What I did is correct a misstated fact where there are indeed difference between the GTS and base M3/4 front suspension geometry. But if you think that has no effect one steering feel an feedback, I suggest you look-up scrub radius, caster and Ackerman angle to start with.
Track has such little difference in steering feedback that it is absurd to mention it to explain the huge gulf in steering feel the reviewers claim between the GTS and the M2 and M4. The second someone puts spacers or different wheels on either car there is a greater difference in front track than the hub carrier. You do not see people making threads saying "I put spacers on my car and lost all steering feel!" The same goes for KW coilovers - nobody says, "I just put Clubsports on my car and now I lost road texture feel!"

The entire point of my posting is to show how hyperbolic reviewers are being with proclamations like the M4 GTS has the worst steering feel ever, while they say the M2 has the best steering feel of any current M car. A few mm in track width is not going to cause such a wide gulf in reviews. It is absolutely nothing compared to an entirely different power steering map that literally changes the required steering angle and weight on the car to achieve a certain corner radius.

Of course, all of this could be confirmed if you guys with base M4s simply tried the coding change I suggested and switched your power steering map to that of the M2/GTS. You will notice a difference; I have done it for several local cars and it's immediately noticeable. If you have such a sensitive butt that you can detect a few mm difference in track width, this will be like hitting you over the head with a sledgehammer.

Last edited by paradoxical3; 02-22-2017 at 07:44 AM..
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2017, 08:31 AM   #510
jeff@autocouture
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
jeff@autocouture's Avatar
963
Rep
13,780
Posts


Drives: 2002 E53 X5 4.6is
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Track has such little difference in steering feedback that it is absurd to mention it to explain the huge gulf in steering feel the reviewers claim between the GTS and the M2 and M4. The second someone puts spacers or different wheels on either car there is a greater difference in front track than the hub carrier. You do not see people making threads saying "I put spacers on my car and lost all steering feel!" The same goes for KW coilovers - nobody says, "I just put Clubsports on my car and now I lost road texture feel!"

The entire point of my posting is to show how hyperbolic reviewers are being with proclamations like the M4 GTS has the worst steering feel ever, while they say the M2 has the best steering feel of any current M car. A few mm in track width is not going to cause such a wide gulf in reviews. It is absolutely nothing compared to an entirely different power steering map that literally changes the required steering angle and weight on the car to achieve a certain corner radius.

Of course, all of this could be confirmed if you guys with base M4s simply tried the coding change I suggested and switched your power steering map to that of the M2/GTS. You will notice a difference; I have done it for several local cars and it's immediately noticeable. If you have such a sensitive butt that you can detect a few mm difference in track width, this will be like hitting you over the head with a sledgehammer.
i will be doing the GTS coding today on my M4, and i will be able to compare the feel to my GTS, the cars currently are 2 completely different cars and my Base M4 has the KW Clubsport 2 ways

while i doubt the steering will bring the car itself close to my GTS, i am still exciting for the better steering feel
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2017, 08:56 AM   #511
paradoxical3
Lieutenant Colonel
1008
Rep
1,563
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex@AUTOcouture View Post
i will be doing the GTS coding today on my M4, and i will be able to compare the feel to my GTS, the cars currently are 2 completely different cars and my Base M4 has the KW Clubsport 2 ways

while i doubt the steering will bring the car itself close to my GTS, i am still exciting for the better steering feel
Awesome, will be especially interesting to see your thoughts with the clubsports on there.

If you have the latest psdzdata there is a new power steering variant for the M2 CS too, I have not tried that yet. But it is separate from the M2/GTS variant so perhaps it's worth exploring as well.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2017, 09:05 AM   #512
jeff@autocouture
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
jeff@autocouture's Avatar
963
Rep
13,780
Posts


Drives: 2002 E53 X5 4.6is
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Awesome, will be especially interesting to see your thoughts with the clubsports on there.

If you have the latest psdzdata there is a new power steering variant for the M2 CS too, I have not tried that yet. But it is separate from the M2/GTS variant so perhaps it's worth exploring as well.
interesting, well the clubsports in the gts arent just normal ones form kw, just at a quick glance you can see the springs are from eibach,

Im not going to start getting into a comparison here, but the gts feels and drives like a completely different car, its hard to explain without driving it, but it feels like a different car altogether, its perfectly balanced and put together
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2017, 04:53 PM   #513
M4_GTS
Lieutenant Colonel
Hong Kong
1153
Rep
1,523
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex@AUTOcouture View Post
interesting, well the clubsports in the gts arent just normal ones form kw, just at a quick glance you can see the springs are from eibach,

Im not going to start getting into a comparison here, but the gts feels and drives like a completely different car, its hard to explain without driving it, but it feels like a different car altogether, its perfectly balanced and put together
I would say the kw on the gts uses the shock/strut body of the clubsport and that'd about the only thing they share in common. The spring seats, front top hat and rear top Mount is completely different.

It's a feeling that is hard to explain and only those who have driven both will know.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2017, 05:07 PM   #514
paradoxical3
Lieutenant Colonel
1008
Rep
1,563
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4_GTS View Post
I would say the kw on the gts uses the shock/strut body of the clubsport and that'd about the only thing they share in common. The spring seats, front top hat and rear top Mount is completely different.

It's a feeling that is hard to explain and only those who have driven both will know.
I'm sure the actual valving is different as well, probably to BMW's spec instead of KW's.
Appreciate 0
      02-22-2017, 06:39 PM   #515
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Track has such little difference in steering feedback that it is absurd to mention it to explain the huge gulf in steering feel the reviewers claim between the GTS and the M2 and M4. The second someone puts spacers or different wheels on either car there is a greater difference in front track than the hub carrier. You do not see people making threads saying "I put spacers on my car and lost all steering feel!" The same goes for KW coilovers - nobody says, "I just put Clubsports on my car and now I lost road texture feel!"

The entire point of my posting is to show how hyperbolic reviewers are being with proclamations like the M4 GTS has the worst steering feel ever, while they say the M2 has the best steering feel of any current M car. A few mm in track width is not going to cause such a wide gulf in reviews. It is absolutely nothing compared to an entirely different power steering map that literally changes the required steering angle and weight on the car to achieve a certain corner radius.

Of course, all of this could be confirmed if you guys with base M4s simply tried the coding change I suggested and switched your power steering map to that of the M2/GTS. You will notice a difference; I have done it for several local cars and it's immediately noticeable. If you have such a sensitive butt that you can detect a few mm difference in track width, this will be like hitting you over the head with a sledgehammer.
Track width in itself has little incidence on steering feel and feedback. However changes in wheel offset that alter the scrub radius and/or Ackerman angle can have a noticeable impact on steering feel and feedback. I am one that does not like the effect of spacers on the front axle. I tried 12mm spacers on my E92 and hated how it killed steering feel. The reason you don't see many complaining about this is that the majority of drivers are not sensitive enough to notice the difference. Further, from the alignment sheets I have seen posted on the forum, it seems the GTS has more caster than the base M3/4. This also has an impact on steering feedback. Steering feel is born in the geometry of the front suspension, not in the EPS programming. The programming can be made to filter less and transmit more, but it cannot be made to create feel and feedback that is not there to start with. Maybe we can get Racer20 to provide more insight.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 02-22-2017 at 06:50 PM..
Appreciate 2
gmd2003351.50
VCP1390.00
      02-22-2017, 08:48 PM   #516
paradoxical3
Lieutenant Colonel
1008
Rep
1,563
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Track width in itself has little incidence on steering feel and feedback. However changes in wheel offset that alter the scrub radius and/or Ackerman angle can have a noticeable impact on steering feel and feedback. I am one that does not like the effect of spacers on the front axle. I tried 12mm spacers on my E92 and hated how it killed steering feel. The reason you don't see many complaining about this is that the majority of drivers are not sensitive enough to notice the difference. .
Your bolded statement here is exactly why I said it's absurd to attribute the gulf in reviews due to things like a different hub carrier and Ackerman angle. I am agreeing with you here. That is kind of the whole crux of my argument.

95% of posters and reviewers aren't going to notice a change in Ackerman angle because they don't have enough experience to. It can be a subtle difference. 95% of posters will notice a change in EPS mapping because it affects more obvious parameters like steering weight. This goes either way - for better or for worse.
Appreciate 2
CanAutM321104.50
gmd2003351.50
      02-22-2017, 08:51 PM   #517
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Your bolded statement here is exactly why I said it's absurd to attribute the gulf in reviews due to things like a different hub carrier and Ackerman angle. I am agreeing with you here. That is kind of the whole crux of my argument.

95% of posters and reviewers aren't going to notice a change in Ackerman angle because they don't have enough experience to. It can be a subtle difference. 95% of posters will notice a change in EPS mapping because it affects more obvious parameters like steering weight. This goes either way - for better or for worse.
We are in agreement
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2017, 06:30 PM   #518
RandyC54
Salty Middle Aged Dog
RandyC54's Avatar
United_States
142
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4 GTS
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Richmond, VA

iTrader: (0)

I had my dealer change my Ackerman angle to the same setting the DTM cars use, and I notice a huge increase in corner exit feel!! I'd do it myself but the gauge and clips used to make the adjustment costs nearly $1200! (Side benefit is that brake dust is also more evenly distributed now - nice)
__________________
2018 Porsche GT2 RS, Black
2018 Mercedes GLS63 AMG, Black, DD and TV
1997 BMW E31 840i, Black (fully restored!!)
Appreciate 0
      12-09-2017, 10:02 AM   #519
shaunmic
New Member
3
Rep
6
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (0)

It is very apparent that he has a hate on for the M3 and especially the M4.
Yet he loves the M2!
I own a M4 and love it for what it is, A high performance sports-car. I take it to Track and auto-cross events a few times a year.
I have driven the M2 at one of these events and it is a very fun car to drive. Not a car i would want to drive on a long trip though. The M4 is faster in evey category except an auto-cross course and not by much. I drove both cars and was only .5 seconds off inn the M4. The M4 is also a better looking car IMO.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 2
M4_GTS1152.50
      12-09-2017, 08:56 PM   #520
airwave808
First Lieutenant
airwave808's Avatar
United_States
30
Rep
375
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tampa, Florida

iTrader: (1)

I thought this thread was dead. In any case, read some interesting comments from all over from a year ago. Now that the GTS in US with very low miles is equal or cheaper than a CS, will folks stop hating on the car as you can get one new like I just did for less than half the price of a GT3 RS which you cannot virtually not get an allocation for? I have bought GTS after a E92 M3 which I drove on the track occasionally and I can tell you that I have never driven a car like GTS. It is phenomenal.
Appreciate 1
M4_GTS1152.50
      12-09-2017, 10:39 PM   #521
jpdchicago
Major
United_States
1358
Rep
1,394
Posts

Drives: M4 CSL, X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by airwave808 View Post
I thought this thread was dead. In any case, read some interesting comments from all over from a year ago. Now that the GTS in US with very low miles is equal or cheaper than a CS, will folks stop hating on the car as you can get one new like I just did for less than half the price of a GT3 RS which you cannot virtually not get an allocation for? I have bought GTS after a E92 M3 which I drove on the track occasionally and I can tell you that I have never driven a car like GTS. It is phenomenal.
I agree you have to drive it to believe it. Coming from an f80 M3, the GTS has a totally different feel. Steering, sound, power delivery are transformed. Now that you can get a used GTS for less than the upcoming M4CS, it becomes a no brainer. A 911 GT3RS is better but definitely not worth twice as much (but only true in the US).
Funny thing is that an M4 GTS still costs the same (used) as a 911gt3rs in Germany (2017 model). The reason is germany only got 80 GTS, UK 30 of them and France 15. Supply and demand... GT3RS is the better car though...

Last edited by jpdchicago; 12-09-2017 at 10:50 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-09-2017, 10:46 PM   #522
schnell325
Bored at work....
schnell325's Avatar
Canada
887
Rep
5,378
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 GTS//2022 M235iGC
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Comox Valley

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by airwave808 View Post
I thought this thread was dead. In any case, read some interesting comments from all over from a year ago. Now that the GTS in US with very low miles is equal or cheaper than a CS, will folks stop hating on the car as you can get one new like I just did for less than half the price of a GT3 RS which you cannot virtually not get an allocation for? I have bought GTS after a E92 M3 which I drove on the track occasionally and I can tell you that I have never driven a car like GTS. It is phenomenal.


Ding. Ding. We have a winner. Congratulations and enjoy our beasts
__________________
Grey Matter:2008 E92 M3:608/425. SG/PS SOLD!
Dark Matter:2015 F80 M3:495/505. SOLD!
Anti Matter :2016 F82 M4 GTS
What next?!? A 2022 M235i GC- I must be getting old
Appreciate 0
      12-10-2017, 09:12 AM   #523
SunnyD
Major
SunnyD's Avatar
United_States
452
Rep
1,287
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdchicago View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by airwave808 View Post
I thought this thread was dead. In any case, read some interesting comments from all over from a year ago. Now that the GTS in US with very low miles is equal or cheaper than a CS, will folks stop hating on the car as you can get one new like I just did for less than half the price of a GT3 RS which you cannot virtually not get an allocation for? I have bought GTS after a E92 M3 which I drove on the track occasionally and I can tell you that I have never driven a car like GTS. It is phenomenal.
I agree you have to drive it to believe it. Coming from an f80 M3, the GTS has a totally different feel. Steering, sound, power delivery are transformed. Now that you can get a used GTS for less than the upcoming M4CS, it becomes a no brainer. A 911 GT3RS is better but definitely not worth twice as much (but only true in the US).
Funny thing is that an M4 GTS still costs the same (used) as a 911gt3rs in Germany (2017 model). The reason is germany only got 80 GTS, UK 30 of them and France 15. Supply and demand... GT3RS is the better car though...
Yep, I would take a 991.1 RS over my GTS, but wouldn't (and didn't) take a regular 991.1 GT3. GTS just feels more special.
__________________
'16 ///M4 GTS
'11.75 ///E90 M3 ZCP | DCT
'06 ///M5 | SMG - Gone
'98 ///M3 | 5MT - Gone
'07 ///M Coupe | 6MT - Gone
Appreciate 0
      12-10-2017, 11:36 AM   #524
minn19
Lieutenant General
minn19's Avatar
13970
Rep
10,061
Posts

Drives: 24 Z06, 23 CT4VBW, 22 PFinder
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunmic View Post
It is very apparent that he has a hate on for the M3 and especially the M4.
Yet he loves the M2!
I own a M4 and love it for what it is, A high performance sports-car. I take it to Track and auto-cross events a few times a year.
I have driven the M2 at one of these events and it is a very fun car to drive. Not a car i would want to drive on a long trip though. The M4 is faster in evey category except an auto-cross course and not by much. I drove both cars and was only .5 seconds off inn the M4. The M4 is also a better looking car IMO.
He actually really liked the M3 and M4. It was the GTS he wasn’t to fond of.
Appreciate 0
      12-10-2017, 12:07 PM   #525
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
He actually really liked the M3 and M4. It was the GTS he wasn’t to fond of.
Yep, and the M2 as well.

The folks who don’t like it can’t get past the price, and for good reason. When you’re looking in the 130+k range, well, there are certainly better options.
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
      12-10-2017, 12:11 PM   #526
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by airwave808 View Post
I thought this thread was dead. In any case, read some interesting comments from all over from a year ago. Now that the GTS in US with very low miles is equal or cheaper than a CS, will folks stop hating on the car as you can get one new like I just did for less than half the price of a GT3 RS which you cannot virtually not get an allocation for? I have bought GTS after a E92 M3 which I drove on the track occasionally and I can tell you that I have never driven a car like GTS. It is phenomenal.
Can’t speak to the GT3-RS, but I have a buddy who got an allocation for a 991.2 GT3 at MSRP. And no, he wasn’t required to deposit a kidney in order to secure the allocation.

If a person is thorough and looks around, they can be had at MSRP. And that’s a car that’s worth 150k. It’s so much more car than the GTS, for “marginally” more money at that level, that it makes the choice pretty easy.

No need to bring the RS into the conversation, as the standard GT3 is already on another planet.

PS - my buddy never considered the GTS. He didn’t see it as a worthy comparison to the GT3.
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)

Last edited by dmboone25; 12-10-2017 at 12:26 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-10-2017, 12:14 PM   #527
minn19
Lieutenant General
minn19's Avatar
13970
Rep
10,061
Posts

Drives: 24 Z06, 23 CT4VBW, 22 PFinder
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Yep, and the M2 as well.

The folks who don’t like it can’t get past the price, and for good reason. When you’re looking in the 130+k range, well, there are certainly better options.
Agreed, but conversely when you can pick it up for 100k or less now, I think it is a lot of car for that money. I still wouldn’t get one, but it does make a lot more sense now.
Appreciate 1
dmboone254970.50
      12-10-2017, 12:19 PM   #528
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Agreed, but conversely when you can pick it up for 100k or less now, I think it is a lot of car for that money. I still wouldn’t get one, but it does make a lot more sense now.
Agreed - in the ~100k range, the car makes a lot,of sense. Just not at 135.

I also think the new CS prices are way too high for what you’re getting (essentially a tune, revised electronics, and tires. Plus some CF bits).

BMW knows they could only hope to sell out these cars if they artificially limited production. You don’t see Porsche saying they will only produce X number of GT3s...because they know the car is so good that it will sell as many as they can build. No matter the number.
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:30 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST