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      10-25-2017, 01:09 AM   #155
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      10-25-2017, 01:21 AM   #156
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i'm struggling to see the cherry here guys

in Aus at least, the M4 CS is approx 70% more expensive than an M4 ZCP

and you're getting no new mechanical hardware - but rather a centre console and door trim that are seriously compromised for road use

the only real advantage i see is the carbon hood, which is a 4k retrofit - wheels, front lip, trunk spoiler are easily purchased as spare parts too

honey dicked by the bmw marketing department
      10-25-2017, 02:28 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino_z View Post
honey dicked
A term I was not familiar with until now. Thank you.
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      10-25-2017, 05:25 AM   #158
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I'll make my own ///M3 CS ;-)
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      10-25-2017, 06:53 AM   #159
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Somehow, the leaked pictures in the context of the leaked Video act a little staged.
Because of the only possible location of the photographer, this one should actually be seen in the video and also the filmmaker of the video on the last pictures.
In any case, it is impossible that photographer and filmmaker are one person, unless the departure from the gas station took place twice = staging of BMW!
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      10-25-2017, 07:43 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndukyh View Post
Wow this will be tremendous! Finally some nice photos of the 763m too. Loving them. Also, how is a sedan a Coupé Sport??
I would imagine the CS in the M3's case stands for ClubSport
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      10-25-2017, 08:55 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachbar View Post
I saw a M4 CS for sale at my dealer last week. But it is insanely expensive!! It's 132k Swiss Franks. A non CS is around 20k less. My SA showed me, that it has the wrong hud (standard, not GTS hood). He said, that lots of them were wrong manufactured and have to be changed/fixed now at the dealers.
That sounds pretty piss poor.
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      10-25-2017, 09:39 AM   #162
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During the roundabout turn at the beginning, it is easy to see how much more it rolls when compared to the Merc AMG GT. I am of the opinion that the servo valve tech used in our cars (and presumably the M3 CS) is severely limited when compared to the magnetic dampers most other performance cars use. The center of gravity in our car is also a bit high (around 20in per my estimate). Although the M3 is still the best "sport" sedan by a long shot, a quick drive in a properly sporty car (c7, 1LE SS, 981, 991 etc.) quickly reveals the relatively pedestrian nature of our car.

In other words, if you're hoping for no compromise sports car like thrill from the CS, you will be disappointed. It will still be a wobbly sport sedan at the end of the day. If you don't believe me, just test drive any of the cars I mentioned and you will be a believer.

Last edited by Celestion; 10-25-2017 at 09:51 AM.
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      10-25-2017, 10:17 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestion View Post
During the roundabout turn at the beginning, it is easy to see how much more it rolls when compared to the Merc AMG GT. I am of the opinion that the servo valve tech used in our cars (and presumably the M3 CS) is severely limited when compared to the magnetic dampers most other performance cars use. The center of gravity in our car is also a bit high (around 20in per my estimate). Although the M3 is still the best "sport" sedan by a long shot, a quick drive in a properly sporty car (c7, 1LE SS, 981, 991 etc.) quickly reveals the relatively pedestrian nature of our car.

In other words, if you're hoping for no compromise sports car like thrill from the CS, you will be disappointed. It will still be a wobbly sport sedan at the end of the day. If you don't believe me, just test drive any of the cars I mentioned and you will be a believer.
Fair point but you also have to remember there are limitations to what can be done with a vehicle that is based on a mass production sedan chassis with seating for 5, a big boot, tall glasshouse for better outward visibility, etc - the f80 is not a clean sheet design

The fact that bmw still use a mcpherson strut in an age where jaguar is using double wishbones and an all aluminum chassis on a small sedan also shows the platform is showing its age - skeptics will (rightfully) say the very fact there is a run of new models proves this platform is nearing its end of life cycle as the marketing department ramps up renewed interest ahead of a pending new release

But the bigger issue for me is anyone buying an f80 sedan expecting it will perform, actually rather feel, like a bespoke sports car
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      10-25-2017, 10:41 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino_z View Post
But the bigger issue for me is anyone buying an f80 sedan expecting it will perform, actually rather feel, like a bespoke sports car
+1
Got mine because I wanted a super daily driver not a sports car. And it's one of the last manual trans sport sedans on the market.
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      10-25-2017, 10:51 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinonz View Post
Hmmm - theoretically, if the M4 CS has it, this should come with the carbon fiber drive shaft too.
Based on what SickFinga said in Post #88, I am not so sure.

This car is not a separate model like the CS and GTS, but an iteration of the standard F80. That may seem like a minor technicality, and in a general context it is, but I would suggest that it may be important in cases such as the one you bring up.

I remain somewhat skeptical that this car will actually be called "M3 CS". But even if it is, clearly it isn't going to have full feature parity with the M4 CS. Although, it will have the engine tune and share suspension tweaks with the M4 CS too (whatever those are), so that's what matters most I'd think. Pricing remains a big question. Already, the value equation for the M4 CS has been called into question by many, and rightly so. Will this car suffer in the same way? We shall see.
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      10-25-2017, 10:51 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pheerlx View Post
+1
Got mine because I wanted a super daily driver not a sports car. And it's one of the last manual trans sport sedans on the market.
+1, everyone I know who might know are convinced this is the last manual M3 will ever see mostly because of the corporate commitment to hybrid / i-tech and severe self-dilution of the M-brand due to BMW sprinkling it everywhere else -- I hope they are wrong. M4 obviously will be available for a while so manuals at least around for a while longer.

As for the CS give me the front lip....keep the rest! Severely overpriced upgrade that you will be able to buy much better cars with unless you are completely committed to the F80/82 platform - they will be in M5 territory and competing with themselves once again!
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      10-25-2017, 10:58 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhk118 View Post
+1, everyone I know who might know are convinced this is the last manual M3 will ever see mostly because of the corporate commitment to hybrid / i-tech
But if the next M3 doesn't have an electrified drivetrain, which is quite likely, then the chances become much better for one more generation of the MT. Even if the S58 is 48V like the M256 and has integrated mild hybrid tech such as flywheel starter/generator or some form of electric turbo charging, the MT should still be easy to integrate.

I would also suggest that the fact that the next M2 will keep both the I6 and the MT means that it could share some development with the M3/M4.

Quote:
and loss of the M-brand doe to BMW sprinkling it everywhere.
If anything, that will keep the MT around longer since one could argue that while a 340i could finally ditch the manual, an M340i ought to keep it around as long as it's still feasible.
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      10-25-2017, 11:04 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
But if the next M3 doesn't have an electrified drivetrain, which is quite likely, then the chances become much better for one more generation of the MT. Even if the S58 is 48V like the M256 and has integrated mild hybrid tech such as flywheel starter/generator or some form of electric turbo charging, the MT should still be easy to integrate.

I would also suggest that the fact that the next M2 will keep the I6 and also keep the M2 means that it could share some development with the M3/M4.



If anything, that will keep the MT around longer since one could argue that while a 340i could finally ditch the manual, an M340i ought to keep it around as long as it's still feasible.
I hope you are right on both accounts. There is certain hybrid tech I'm willing to accept as you mention before I just say F-it, jump technologies and go buy a Tesla. My concern is them strapping individual motors to fronts or rears, but F90 gives new hope that won't happen so something to help the overall system ala MGU-H and MGU-K would be great (reliable though?).

But then the manual fuel efficiency is lower and they facing overall fleet MPG requirements...

Anyway was enough for me to flip my '15 to an '18 M3 as is the perfect manual sports sedan that meets the needs of my family for the next 6 years...
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      10-25-2017, 11:11 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachbar View Post
I saw a M4 CS for sale at my dealer last week. But it is insanely expensive!! It's 132k Swiss Franks. A non CS is around 20k less. My SA showed me, that it has the wrong hud (standard, not GTS hood). He said, that lots of them were wrong manufactured and have to be changed/fixed now at the dealers.

So I don't expect the M3 CS to be ?cheap" at all.
There are more CS' for sale in CH than in the rest of Europe

Priced around 120-130k SFR. Wonder how the residuals might go. If I remember correctly E90 CRT didn't sell all that well but the values eventually picked up I believe..
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      10-25-2017, 11:16 AM   #170
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So what about the CRT? :
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      10-25-2017, 11:22 AM   #171
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Video

I kinda liked the AMG GT-R
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      10-25-2017, 11:39 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino_z View Post
Fair point but you also have to remember there are limitations to what can be done with a vehicle that is based on a mass production sedan chassis with seating for 5, a big boot, tall glasshouse for better outward visibility, etc - the f80 is not a clean sheet design

The fact that bmw still use a mcpherson strut in an age where jaguar is using double wishbones and an all aluminum chassis on a small sedan also shows the platform is showing its age - skeptics will (rightfully) say the very fact there is a run of new models proves this platform is nearing its end of life cycle as the marketing department ramps up renewed interest ahead of a pending new release

But the bigger issue for me is anyone buying an f80 sedan expecting it will perform, actually rather feel, like a bespoke sports car
For sure. Have you driven the Jag XE before? I have. The double wishbone stuff feels great and the car is quite precise and controlled. That said, a lot more can be done with the MacPherson strut than what they did with it in our car. Literally just having better dampers, and maybe ~1in lower center of gravity, would've made our car substantially more enjoyable IMO. Of the cars I mentioned in my last post, I think only the c7 uses double wishbone (albeit with 19th century leaf springs lol, and it still kicks ass).
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      10-25-2017, 12:19 PM   #173
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Very nice especially the color and CS parts
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      10-25-2017, 12:35 PM   #174
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please come with an armrest
please come with an armrest
please come with an armrest
please come with an armrest
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      10-25-2017, 12:37 PM   #175
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More importantly...what is the camouflaged AMG GT-R behind the CS?
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      10-25-2017, 12:44 PM   #176
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Still cannot understand why BMW still does not have any US pricing for the M4 CS, due in the spring. I assume M3 CS pricing would be comparable...
Just a wild guess at this point. Great car at $90,000, not so great at $110,000.
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