Bootmod3 vs JB4, personal thoughts?

[rosenbergendo]

Originally Posted by BoxKing

I think the only thing held to be true is that you can Flash back to stock tune prior to service which should help trick the dealership and you can remove the piggyback to do the same damn thang... that's your only warrantee folks - read it and DONT WEAP!

This is not true also. Remove the JB4 and you are good to go. Flash back to stock from a tune (which isn't really stock) and when they plug in flags still go up and your tagged.

[BoxKing]

Originally Posted by rosenbergendo

This is not true also. Remove the JB4 and you are good to go. Flash back to stock from a tune (which isn't really stock) and when they plug in flags still go up and your tagged.

Stop giving false information: you're not automatically good to go if you remove either of them prior to service and or warrantee claim. Both can be tracked fairly easily. Simply just removing the JB4 isn't going to do more than making it harder for a dealership to prove you had an aftermarket tune on your car - simple game of hide and seek and you will most likely lose.

[kerm1t]

Originally Posted by BoxKing

Stop giving false information: you're not automatically good to go if you remove either of them prior to service and or warrantee claim. Both can be tracked fairly easily. Simply just removing the JB4 isn't going to do more than making it harder for a dealership to prove you had an aftermarket tune on your car - simple game of hide and seek and you will most likely lose.

no idea why people think jb4 is prone to being detected. lmfao

[BoxKing]

Originally Posted by kerm1t

no idea why people think jb4 is prone to being detected. lmfao

No one said "prone" well at least not me.

It's providing ppl who seek correct information, with just that; and all tunes whether piggyback or flash are detectable.

[Sleeper]

Both piggyback and flash tunes are detectable, installed or not, stock map or not.

So given that the warranty risk is spread equally between the two, which tuning solution would you want to run?

[rosenbergendo]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Both piggyback and flash tunes are detectable, installed or not, stock map or not.

So given that the warranty risk is spread equally between the two, which tuning solution would you want to run?

Warranty risk is not even close to equal between the 2. JB4 can be basically removed with no hint of it unless Germany does a CIA level investigation compared to the flash being detected in about one nanosecond. How is that the same risk?

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by rosenbergendo

Warranty risk is not even close to equal between the 2. JB4 can be basically removed with no hint of it unless Germany does a CIA level investigation compared to the flash being detected in about one nanosecond. How is that the same risk?

Same risk ... both can be detected within FASTA data, no CIA investigation needed. And believe me, if BMW see a chance to safe 10,20 or 30K for engine replacement, they gonna spend the time for investigation.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by rosenbergendo

Warranty risk is not even close to equal between the 2. JB4 can be basically removed with no hint of it unless Germany does a CIA level investigation compared to the flash being detected in about one nanosecond. How is that the same risk?

You know how we all know you don't have a clue?

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

FASTA data is pulled and can be analyzed each time the car is hooked up to the factory scan equipment (ISTA).

Neither piggyback nor flash tune is safe from FASTA.

[LongBeachDinanFan]

Originally Posted by kerm1t

no idea why people think jb4 is prone to being detected. lmfao

If you study how both work its clear to anyone even slightly knowledgeable if you had to make a warranty claim chances it will be denied with a flash tune and chances are it will be approved with a JB4 if removed ahead of time. Anyone who states otherwise is just spreading flash tune propaganda.

If you want a tune with a warranty you know where to get it.

[kerm1t]

Originally Posted by LongBeachDinanFan

If you study how both work its clear to anyone even slightly knowledgeable if you had to make a warranty claim chances it will be denied with a flash tune and chances are it will be approved with a JB4 if removed ahead of time. Anyone who states otherwise is just spreading flash tune propaganda.

If you want a tune with a warranty you know where to get it.

If you've read my earlier post, I'm all for jb4 and have had it on all my cars, but saying its untraceable and not void warranty is a lie. Just like you said, the "CHANCES" are better with piggybacks than flash, but you could still get flagged. I wouldn't go into spreading flash propaganda "dinanfan"

[MNoob]

What's weird about this thread is that I'm pretty sure I've read a bunch of other threads where cars were flagged and warranty claims denied even when the piggy was removed beforehand. Those threads always turned into either pay-to-play debates or magnuson-moss debates.

Way to much hand wringing going on. Do what you want and can afford and hoon it like your 16 from time to time.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by LongBeachDinanFan

If you study how both work its clear to anyone even slightly knowledgeable if you had to make a warranty claim chances it will be denied with a flash tune and chances are it will be approved with a JB4 if removed ahead of time. Anyone who states otherwise is just spreading flash tune propaganda.

If you want a tune with a warranty you know where to get it.

Nice s/n.

[DragonGate]

As typical, all LongBlackD**kFan post are the same!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Figurka

Same risk ... both can be detected within FASTA data, no CIA investigation needed. And believe me, if BMW see a chance to safe 10,20 or 30K for engine replacement, they gonna spend the time for investigation.

When they examine the FASTA data from the JB4 vehicle everything important will look like factory tuning. They'd really have to reach to conclude it was tuned, unlike the flash tune, where everything important in FASTA will look tuned.

Mike

[kerm1t]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

Nice s/n.

hahaha. i have a jb4 on my car, but apparently saying jb4 can be detect = spreading propaganda

[FSociety]

Sales guy at bmw (friend of mine) sends me a text
Him: Hey BMW just flagged a car that came in
Me: What you mean ?
Him: Car was hooked up to the machine they detected it had JB4 before and automatically flagged
Me: No way
Him: Yep, car doesn't even have jb4 installed or anything aftermarket
Me: Oh boy

Old News! Nothing NEW, JB4 cars have been getting flagged by the hundreds .. People are now realizing "Whats the point of having JB4 if im going to get flagged, might as well get a Flash Tune"

Up to this day, the only Flash Tuning that has been on the safe side is Bootmod3 and i'll leave it there. You decide what u want!

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by FSociety

Up to this day, the only Flash Tuning that has been on the safe side is Bootmod3 and i'll leave it there. You decide what u want!

You can't simply make a statement like that and then
just say "i'll leave it there".



We've got customers with every stage level of our
software who have accumulated tens of thousands
of hard miles with not even the slightest hint of an
reliability issue.

And if any of the current flash tune options out there
(not just HEX Tuning) exhibited an inherent reliability
or safety issues, people wouldn't need you to be the
one starting rumors, it would be public knowledge as
we all know that negative news travels at a significantly
greater rate than positive news.



Just a piece of advice; If the only source for negative
information about another brand is coming from within
your own inner circle, it may be time to either expand
that circle or at least ask for proof before you're the one
spreading potentially false information and looking silly.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by VF-Engineering

You can't simply make a statement like that and then
just say "i'll leave it there".



We've got customers with every stage level of our
software who have accumulated tens of thousands
of hard miles with not even the slightest hint of an
reliability issue.

And if any of the current flash tune options out there
(not just HEX Tuning) exhibited an inherent reliability
or safety issues, people wouldn't need you to be the
one starting rumors, it would be public knowledge as
we all know that negative news travels at a significantly
greater rate than positive news.



Just a piece of advice; If the only source for negative
information about another brand is coming from within
your own inner circle, it may be time to either expand
that circle or at least ask for proof before you're the one
spreading potentially false information and looking silly.

Gary, why do you have to get so pissy at every post relating to people's opinion/experience with other flash tunes?

You represent a company and are not speaking on your personal behalf. It requires a higher level of professionalism. I'm saying this as an honest advice and not trying to attack, but it really makes you and your company look bad.

And to your statement I've underlined above, I would disagree with that. For one there are a lot of people using many different tunes out there that are not on this forum. They run into issues that no one hears about. Second, from personal experience I've come to realize that MOST people don't infact post about bad experiences/issues with their tunes or performance mods (for whatever reason that I honestly can't understand). I've learnt and experienced that on a first had basis. I got the BMS chargepipe which at the time of my purhase there didn't seem to be any threads or posts about fitment issues with them, but I had fitment issues with mine (BMS handled the situation for me). And after posting about it, a bunch of other people chimed in and were now "coming out" and pointing that they've had the same fitment issues. I've had a tune from PP-Performance which I had MAJOR reliability issues with and nothing about that was posted on the forums. But afterwards I did more research in other communities outside of Bimmerpost and it turns out others have had the same and worse issues as mine with this tuner. I've had bugs early on in BM3 beta testing (a year ago) which PTF believed that they were isolated to me because no one has expressed similar issue, but once I posted about them peopled chimed in and said they've experienced the same. You see where I'm going?

The difference is that some companies acknowledge their customer's feedback and put their effort into solving them rather than putting their effort into denying them and blaming it on other factors.

In addition to this issue of not speaking up about negative news on a consumer level, I'm sure your know that many companies (including yours) always ensure that any issues with their product remain hush hush. We have many companies here on this forum that know from testing that some intakes have proven to LOSE power, but decide to keep those product's names a secret and continue selling them. We have companies that have tested products such as those from CSF/VF and have known for some time that they proved to provide no real world benefit, but have decided to withhold their testing, experience, and opinions. You for one when you first "re-introduced" your tune you had A LOT of people complaining about driveability issues, and for a while you insisted that it wasn't an issue. Then you decided that only a FEW were affected, and then you ended up releasing an update. But still the issue persisted and those who spoke you denied the validity of their claims etc etc. And that has continued till this day as you can see on this page in case you have forgotten.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1441720&page=3

Having bugs/small issues with tunes on newer cars with complex ECUs such as the S55 is unavoidable, so it's fine as long as it's not a major thing and that you actually acknowledge it and address it rather than deny it. Issues just arise sometimes due to many factors including those from customers with particular driving habits or extreme weather conditions. But you keep on trying to sell the idea of your products being a "turn-key" solution when in addition to all those who have had issues with your tune for the S55, I've known two people (so I'm sure there are more if I've known two) with VF package for the Huracan that have had to return multiple times for a "tweak". So please stop selling the idea of turn key, zero issues, perfect products.

You also have to keep in mind that different products are directed to different types of customers. You have marketed your product to those who want a "turn-key" solution. Those types of customers are USUALLY (so I'm not trying to say ALL of them) are not like enthusiasts which I would say that a lot, but certainly not all, of BM3 customers are. Enthusiasts are your usually very particular (and maybe anal at times like myself ) about the smallest things. They test, datalog, compare, and look for things that most times 90% of users won't even notice or care about.

So saying/implying that your product has no issues and is a perfect turn key solution is not valid because of all the above. You have those customers that just don't participate on this forum and we never hear about their issues. You have those that don't speak up, and when they do you seem to deny the issue and try and keep it hush hush. And then you have those who just don't care that much and can live with those small issues and find the solution of just "restarting" the car to be fine like in the thread I've linked above.

So I'd like to make you an offer, I'm as an@l as they get. And I've used JB4, PPP tune, and PTF tune. So I've had a fair share of tunes. Send me your tune and I'll be willing to test it and provide my honest feedback and impressions. If it's as perfect as you claim you'll find a great review thread from me and I'll pay you full retail for it, if not you have to stop posting blue centered posts and stop claiming turn-key solution

Sounds fair?

[JakOG]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Gary, why do you have to get so pissy at every post relating to people's opinion/experience with other flash tunes?

You represent a company and are not speaking on your personal behalf. It requires a higher level of professionalism. I'm saying this as an honest advice and not trying to attack, but it really makes you and your company look bad.

And to your statement I've underlined above, I would disagree with that. For one there are a lot of people using many different tunes out there that are not on this forum. They run into issues that no one hears about. Second, from personal experience I've come to realize that MOST people don't infact post about bad experiences/issues with their tunes or performance mods (for whatever reason that I honestly can't understand). I've learnt and experienced that on a first had basis. I got the BMS chargepipe which at the time of my purhase there didn't seem to be any threads or posts about fitment issues with them, but I had fitment issues with mine (BMS handled the situation for me). And after posting about it, a bunch of other people chimed in and were now "coming out" and pointing that they've had the same fitment issues. I've had a tune from PP-Performance which I had MAJOR reliability issues with and nothing about that was posted on the forums. But afterwards I did more research in other communities outside of Bimmerpost and it turns out others have had the same and worse issues as mine with this tuner. I've had bugs early on in BM3 beta testing (a year ago) which PTF believed that they were isolated to me because no one has expressed similar issue, but once I posted about them peopled chimed in and said they've experienced the same. You see where I'm going?

The difference is that some companies acknowledge their customer's feedback and put their effort into solving them rather than putting their effort into denying them and blaming it on other factors.

In addition to this issue of not speaking up about negative news on a consumer level, I'm sure your know that many companies (including yours) always ensure that any issues with their product remain hush hush. We have many companies here on this forum that know from testing that some intakes have proven to LOSE power, but decide to keep those product's names a secret and continue selling them. We have companies that have tested products such as those from CSF/VF and have known for some time that they proved to provide no real world benefit, but have decided to withhold their testing, experience, and opinions. You for one when you first "re-introduced" your tune you had A LOT of people complaining about driveability issues, and for a while you insisted that it wasn't an issue. Then you decided that only a FEW were affected, and then you ended up releasing an update. But still the issue persisted and those who spoke you denied the validity of their claims etc etc. And that has continued till this day as you can see on this page in case you have forgotten.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1441720&page=3

Having bugs/small issues with tunes on newer cars with complex ECUs such as the S55 is unavoidable, so it's fine as long as it's not a major thing and that you actually acknowledge it and address it rather than deny it. Issues just arise sometimes due to many factors including those from customers with particular driving habits or extreme weather conditions. But you keep on trying to sell the idea of your products being a "turn-key" solution when in addition to all those who have had issues with your tune for the S55, I've known two people (so I'm sure there are more if I've known two) with VF package for the Huracan that have had to return multiple times for a "tweak". So please stop selling the idea of turn key, zero issues, perfect products.

You also have to keep in mind that different products are directed to different types of customers. You have marketed your product to those who want a "turn-key" solution. Those types of customers are USUALLY (so I'm not trying to say ALL of them) are not like enthusiasts which I would say that a lot, but certainly not all, of BM3 customers are. Enthusiasts are your usually very particular (and maybe anal at times like myself ) about the smallest things. They test, datalog, compare, and look for things that most times 90% of users won't even notice or care about.

So saying/implying that your product has no issues and is a perfect turn key solution is not valid because of all the above. You have those customers that just don't participate on this forum and we never hear about their issues. You have those that don't speak up, and when they do you seem to deny the issue and try and keep it hush hush. And then you have those who just don't care that much and can live with those small issues and find the solution of just "restarting" the car to be fine like in the thread I've linked above.

So I'd like to make you an offer, I'm as an@l as they get. And I've used JB4, PPP tune, and PTF tune. So I've had a fair share of tunes. Send me your tune and I'll be willing to test it and provide my honest feedback and impressions. If it's as perfect as you claim you'll find a great review thread from me and I'll pay you full retail for it, if not you have to stop posting blue centered posts and stop claiming turn-key solution


Sounds fair?

+1
With the thousands of different Software/hardware combinations with n55/s55, it is not physically possible to have turn key solutions for all.
Tables missing in some versions, depreciated in some versions, different locations in some versions etc etc.
That is just one element, not even taking into account the weather conditions in different locations - humidity, temp, altitude. Although their is some degree of inbuilt compensation for these things, they still have an effect.

[///M4ster Yoda]

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone reading these "tuning" threads. They all devolve into the same bullshit. There a 100s of them.

Anyone get sick of the same arguments over and over??? Bueller?

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone reading these "tuning" threads. They all devolve into the same bullshit. There a 100s of them.

Anyone get sick of the same arguments over and over??? Bueller?

I agree. But sometimes it gets annoying to see companies acting unprofessionally and making BS claims. However, don't expect these kinda threads/posts to disappear.

It's BMS with their JB vs Vishnu with their Procede all over again (to those who can remember Vishnu ). Some companies just can't stand competitors offering a better product and/or service.