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      12-07-2017, 05:46 PM   #67
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I was just saying the other day Mercedes lit the AmG brand in fire by doing what they did. My 87 year old grandmother has AMG. She doesn't even know what it is. ///m used to mean something. If you want to have m performance models fine but ///m is for sport, racing and enthusiasts only. IMHO
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      12-07-2017, 05:47 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
and yet the F80 is lighter than its previous generation...
Which is commendable but it's growing mass is turning a lot of people off
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      12-07-2017, 05:56 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
Which is commendable but it's growing mass is turning a lot of people off
Says who? You? The new M3 looks better than the previous one and that comes from most people...
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      12-07-2017, 06:06 PM   #70
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Words are emptiest when the S55 sounds like shit and they want to recycle that motor again.
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      12-07-2017, 06:12 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
Says who? You? The new M3 looks better than the previous one and that comes from most people...
I think the new cars are very attractive, but most people talk about how more attractive the competition is in comparison...
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      12-07-2017, 06:36 PM   #72
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Some of you guys are hilarious! Sorry, the M cars have never been as good as you seem to think they were (as far as performance cars go). M cars have alwasy been a gussied up version of a high volume coupe/sedan. The formula isn't changing. How can anyone compare BMW to Porsche? Porsche started as a sports car company and brached in to SUVs to save the company from bancruptcy. BMW has never been a sports car company and never will be. I love the latest M3 and M5, they are really good cars, but at the end of the day they are just the top of the line version of BMW's most highly produced sedans, just like they have always been.
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      12-07-2017, 06:38 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssquared View Post
E36 M3 had redeeming qualities, you know like steering feel, N/A inline 6, nice throttle response, good sound, right dimensions, fairly light weight

Lets hope the G80 M3 is not just a bland german entry level saloon with 500hp and a harsh suspension that is boring to drive. We need some of that BMW magic back
You know the Euro E36 despite having an incredible engine, was castigated over the pond for not having good steering and lacking involvement (not to mention visual pizzazz). It is considered a far less accomplished generation than the E30 or the E46, with the only redeeming quality being the Euro engine, which we didn’t get in the US. In other words, no redeeming quality for the US version.

So I guess it depends on your perspective.


I wouldn’t object to a car that’s lighter and has more power than the F80, but I absolutely do not want something bigger. And just incrementally better may not be special enough. Maybe it will be time to go way different: M2, or Vette, or Porsche - we’ll see.
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      12-07-2017, 06:42 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
Which is commendable but it's growing mass is turning a lot of people off
You’re confusing mass with volume. The F80 has lower mass and larger volume than the E90.

You could say the F80 has a lower density.
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      12-07-2017, 06:43 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssquared View Post
E36 M3 had redeeming qualities, you know like steering feel, N/A inline 6, nice throttle response, good sound, right dimensions, fairly light weight

Lets hope the G80 M3 is not just a bland german entry level saloon with 500hp and a harsh suspension that is boring to drive. We need some of that BMW magic back
You know the Euro E36 despite having an incredible engine, was castigated over the pond for not having good steering and lacking involvement (not to mention visual pizzazz). It is considered a far less accomplished generation than the E30 or the E46, with the only redeeming quality being the Euro engine, which we didn’t get in the US. In other words, no redeeming quality for the US version.

So I guess it depends on your perspective.


I wouldn’t object to a car that’s lighter and has more power than the F80, but I absolutely do not want something bigger. And just incrementally better may not be special enough. Maybe it will be time to go way different: M2, or Vette, or Porsche - we’ll see.
Weird, my E36/8 had the best steering feel of any BMW I've driven and the regular E36 M3 (I've driven both US and DE ones) had better steering feel than the over boosted and vague E46 by a long shot. I'd say the E90 even had better steering than the E46 as did the E30. So IMHO, the E46 would be one from the bottom of M3 steering feel. I'll admit that the LCI certainly improved things, but it still wasn't a great feeling setup.

Let's not forget that the S54 was criticized for its engine note by pretty much all of the press, and while the S50b32 didn't sound wildly better, it didn't have quite the 'I'm busy destroying myself' note of the S54.
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      12-07-2017, 06:48 PM   #76
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And the bastardization of //M by the need for corporate profit is now complete.
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      12-07-2017, 07:09 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
I used to look forward to the jump from one generation M5/M3 to the next.

Now, for whatever reason, I don’t feel that attachment to either. An entire generation of the M3/M4 turbo has come and gone and I couldn’t care less.
It was a slide over for turbos to appease environmental restrictions and not a move to grassroots 6 cylinder engines.
The cars seem underwhelmed, the reviews for the cars seem to say they’re underwhelmed then the marketing group slaps on performance packages that should have been on the car in the first place.
Doesn’t everyone remember the anticipation of the e46 from e36 and the e90 from the e46? I’d pick up the magazines and dream of the day I’d get any one of those cars, now I look at the dealership across the street - Porsche.

And for the first time I think the M5 is being compared to the E63 AMG as the benchmark and for the first time I would seriously consider it as a daily.
Amen!
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      12-07-2017, 07:25 PM   #78
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Face it guys. There is market demand for these M-models. BMW is in the business of fulfilling that demand. M "purists" won't keep the M brand afloat all by themselves.
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      12-07-2017, 07:28 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
That's a nice wishlist, but some of those, such as the X2 M, are not happening. A Z4 M is not currently scheduled either, though it could theoretically change. The M5 already launched.

The list I provided is based on known model codes from leaks and insiders. It is not 100% guaranteed that each model will in fact make it to production, but at this point the chances are much more likely than not.



Actually, it is not yet known that the G80 M3 will have a manual transmission option.
If I remember correctly, only 2% of BMW M cars are sold with a manual transmission. I just don't know if it is cost effective to keep it up.
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      12-07-2017, 07:32 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
Some of you guys are hilarious! Sorry, the M cars have never been as good as you seem to think they were (as far as performance cars go). M cars have alwasy been a gussied up version of a high volume coupe/sedan. The formula isn't changing. How can anyone compare BMW to Porsche? Porsche started as a sports car company and brached in to SUVs to save the company from bancruptcy. BMW has never been a sports car company and never will be. I love the latest M3 and M5, they are really good cars, but at the end of the day they are just the top of the line version of BMW's most highly produced sedans, just like they have always been.
There was a point in time the BMW M3 was considered to be the best car in the world.

Today, it's considered the best lawn mower, I mean just ONE of the best vehicles in the world. Times have changed.
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      12-07-2017, 07:43 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Face it guys. There is market demand for these M-models. BMW is in the business of fulfilling that demand. M "purists" won't keep the M brand afloat all by themselves.
That's what they used to say about us "BMW" purists. At least back then we can always cling to the fantasy that M would be a safe haven.

Look at the run of the mill BMWs now. Driving a 320i, even with a sport trim, is no more exciting than driving a Lexus Whatever250. In fact some might argue that the new gen Camry and Accords are BETTER luxury sport sedans than entry BMW 3 series.

In another generation or two there won't be any special "BMW-ness" or "///M" qualities to spoke of or boast about IMO.
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      12-07-2017, 07:43 PM   #82
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I’m looking forward to the new the M2 as well as what they do for the M240i. 400+ hp in the M2 with a new motor sounds real nice to me.
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      12-07-2017, 07:44 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharocks View Post
Words are emptiest when the S55 sounds like shit and they want to recycle that motor again.
This is expected. Powertrain development resources are now being directed towards electric drive. BMW simply doesn't have the budget or desire to continue to develop new internal combustion only drivetrains.
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      12-07-2017, 07:45 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Face it guys. There is market demand for these M-models. BMW is in the business of fulfilling that demand. M "purists" won't keep the M brand afloat all by themselves.
That's what they used to say about us "BMW" purists. At least back then we can always cling to the fantasy that M would be a safe haven.

Look at the run of the mill BMWs now. Driving a 320i, even with a sport trim, is no more exciting than driving a Lexus Whatever250. In fact some might argue that the new gen Camry and Accords are BETTER luxury sport sedans than entry BMW 3 series.

In another generation or two there won't be any special "BMW-ness" or "///M" qualities to spoke of or boast about IMO.
Agree, but I believe future owners aren't going to be as concerned with how it drives because the car will drive itself.
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      12-07-2017, 07:55 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GymNut View Post
and yet the F80 is lighter than its previous generation...
No, it's not.
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      12-07-2017, 08:01 PM   #86
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
it does? hmmm, you sure about that

not having a manual clutch does not = automatic transmission
If the gear shifting is automated, it's an automatic transmission.

If the gear is shifted manually, it's a manual transmission.

Not sure how people have trouble with that concept.
As a DCT owner.

I couldn't agree more.

There are two types of transmissions.

1) Manual (Clutch Pedal)
2) Automatic (Everything Else)
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      12-07-2017, 09:10 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Face it guys. There is market demand for these M-models. BMW is in the business of fulfilling that demand. M "purists" won't keep the M brand afloat all by themselves.
That's what they used to say about us "BMW" purists. At least back then we can always cling to the fantasy that M would be a safe haven.

Look at the run of the mill BMWs now. Driving a 320i, even with a sport trim, is no more exciting than driving a Lexus Whatever250. In fact some might argue that the new gen Camry and Accords are BETTER luxury sport sedans than entry BMW 3 series.

In another generation or two there won't be any special "BMW-ness" or "///M" qualities to spoke of or boast about IMO.
Oh I dunno. They aren't anywhere near as exciting as they used to be but the competition isn't anywhere near the same universe. With the exception of the f pace and cayenne I think BMW makes the most fun to drive SUVs. For sure the low end series models are horrendous but M cars I think are still more fun than the competitors.

But yeah back in the day a 325is E36 felt potent and raw enough to get you in big trouble. Can't say that for the near Econo car the 320 is now.
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      12-07-2017, 10:33 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
I used to look forward to the jump from one generation M5/M3 to the next.

Now, for whatever reason, I don’t feel that attachment to either. An entire generation of the M3/M4 turbo has come and gone and I couldn’t care less.
It was a slide over for turbos to appease environmental restrictions and not a move to grassroots 6 cylinder engines.
The cars seem underwhelmed, the reviews for the cars seem to say they’re underwhelmed then the marketing group slaps on performance packages that should have been on the car in the first place.
Doesn’t everyone remember the anticipation of the e46 from e36 and the e90 from the e46? I’d pick up the magazines and dream of the day I’d get any one of those cars, now I look at the dealership across the street - Porsche.

And for the first time I think the M5 is being compared to the E63 AMG as the benchmark and for the first time I would seriously consider it as a daily.
aaah... nostalgia.. nowadays you wouldn't even pick up a magazine ... heck they are barely available.

That nostalagia is there for the E36 and E46 because you couldn't find out info about new models back then other than reading the Roundel, and other car magazines..
now you can sit in your living room, flip a video review to your smart TV and see and hear a video test.. so... that anticipation... well it exists now.. just differently.


I remember shopping for my E30 M3 waiting each month for the Roundel Magazine. I contacted sellers by PHONE and obtained PRINT photos via SNAIL MAIL. However.. that's not what made my E30 M3 so great..

While I can understand you may not be excited about the new models, that doesn't mean that they aren't just as impressive... Without a doubt.. the newer cars will run circles around an older M car..

Personally.. while I anticipated the E36 M3 and the E46 M3... both were disappointing to me in the same way the F8x doesn't interest you.
Bigger. Heavier. more tech . less nimble. Certainly more powerful.. higher limits ... but not as much fun.

I passed on the E36,, the E46.. and your E90.. I did find the right combination of size, power and handling in the 1M.. and while I got in line early to see what the M2 would bring.. thus far it currently underwhelms. I am excited for an M2 CSL.. but only if BMW makes it available as manual. No Automatic for me.
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Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 12-07-2017 at 10:45 PM.
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