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      12-03-2017, 09:15 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki View Post
I agree. But sometimes it gets annoying to see companies acting unprofessionally and making BS claims. However, don't expect these kinda threads/posts to disappear.

It's BMS with their JB vs Vishnu with their Procede all over again (to those who can remember Vishnu ). Some companies just can't stand competitors offering a better product and/or service.
Ahhhhh!
the good old days... Vishnu and procede
as you mentioned bro, this wont stop as that is what drives the market
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      12-03-2017, 09:36 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki View Post
Gary, why do you have to get so pissy at every post relating to people's opinion/experience with other flash tunes?

You represent a company and are not speaking on your personal behalf. It requires a higher level of professionalism. I'm saying this as an honest advice and not trying to attack, but it really makes you and your company look bad.

And to your statement I've underlined above, I would disagree with that. For one there are a lot of people using many different tunes out there that are not on this forum. They run into issues that no one hears about. Second, from personal experience I've come to realize that MOST people don't infact post about bad experiences/issues with their tunes or performance mods (for whatever reason that I honestly can't understand). I've learnt and experienced that on a first had basis. I got the BMS chargepipe which at the time of my purhase there didn't seem to be any threads or posts about fitment issues with them, but I had fitment issues with mine (BMS handled the situation for me). And after posting about it, a bunch of other people chimed in and were now "coming out" and pointing that they've had the same fitment issues. I've had a tune from PP-Performance which I had MAJOR reliability issues with and nothing about that was posted on the forums. But afterwards I did more research in other communities outside of Bimmerpost and it turns out others have had the same and worse issues as mine with this tuner. I've had bugs early on in BM3 beta testing (a year ago) which PTF believed that they were isolated to me because no one has expressed similar issue, but once I posted about them peopled chimed in and said they've experienced the same. You see where I'm going?

The difference is that some companies acknowledge their customer's feedback and put their effort into solving them rather than putting their effort into denying them and blaming it on other factors.

In addition to this issue of not speaking up about negative news on a consumer level, I'm sure your know that many companies (including yours) always ensure that any issues with their product remain hush hush. We have many companies here on this forum that know from testing that some intakes have proven to LOSE power, but decide to keep those product's names a secret and continue selling them. We have companies that have tested products such as those from CSF/VF and have known for some time that they proved to provide no real world benefit, but have decided to withhold their testing, experience, and opinions. You for one when you first "re-introduced" your tune you had A LOT of people complaining about driveability issues, and for a while you insisted that it wasn't an issue. Then you decided that only a FEW were affected, and then you ended up releasing an update. But still the issue persisted and those who spoke you denied the validity of their claims etc etc. And that has continued till this day as you can see on this page in case you have forgotten.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1441720&page=3

Having bugs/small issues with tunes on newer cars with complex ECUs such as the S55 is unavoidable, so it's fine as long as it's not a major thing and that you actually acknowledge it and address it rather than deny it. Issues just arise sometimes due to many factors including those from customers with particular driving habits or extreme weather conditions. But you keep on trying to sell the idea of your products being a "turn-key" solution when in addition to all those who have had issues with your tune for the S55, I've known two people (so I'm sure there are more if I've known two) with VF package for the Huracan that have had to return multiple times for a "tweak". So please stop selling the idea of turn key, zero issues, perfect products.

You also have to keep in mind that different products are directed to different types of customers. You have marketed your product to those who want a "turn-key" solution. Those types of customers are USUALLY (so I'm not trying to say ALL of them) are not like enthusiasts which I would say that a lot, but certainly not all, of BM3 customers are. Enthusiasts are your usually very particular (and maybe anal at times like myself ) about the smallest things. They test, datalog, compare, and look for things that most times 90% of users won't even notice or care about.

So saying/implying that your product has no issues and is a perfect turn key solution is not valid because of all the above. You have those customers that just don't participate on this forum and we never hear about their issues. You have those that don't speak up, and when they do you seem to deny the issue and try and keep it hush hush. And then you have those who just don't care that much and can live with those small issues and find the solution of just "restarting" the car to be fine like in the thread I've linked above.

So I'd like to make you an offer, I'm as an@l as they get. And I've used JB4, PPP tune, and PTF tune. So I've had a fair share of tunes. Send me your tune and I'll be willing to test it and provide my honest feedback and impressions. If it's as perfect as you claim you'll find a great review thread from me and I'll pay you full retail for it, if not you have to stop posting blue centered posts and stop claiming turn-key solution

Sounds fair?
Home run !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakOG View Post
+1
With the thousands of different Software/hardware combinations with n55/s55, it is not physically possible to have turn key solutions for all.
Tables missing in some versions, depreciated in some versions, different locations in some versions etc etc.
That is just one element, not even taking into account the weather conditions in different locations - humidity, temp, altitude. Although their is some degree of inbuilt compensation for these things, they still have an effect.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki View Post
sometimes it gets annoying to see companies acting unprofessionally and making BS claims. However, don't expect these kinda threads/posts to disappear.

It's BMS with their JB vs Vishnu with their Procede all over again (to those who can remember Vishnu ). Some companies just can't stand competitors offering a better product and/or service.
Exactly

Last edited by FSociety; 12-08-2017 at 12:49 PM.
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      12-04-2017, 10:30 PM   #69
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Sorry, busy weekend and even busier Monday...



Our most recent response was to a claim that "the only Flash
Tuning that has been on the safe side is Bootmod3
". -fsociety

Not only is this completely untrue, it's exactly how rumors are
started; and without rebuttal will be perpetuated by those from
the same camp who either don't know better, or just don't care.



For BuLoOoSki

At no point did we say our product is perfect, or that it is better
under all circumstances. There is also a very distinct difference
between what we advertise as "Turn-Key" versus what people
interpret as being "one-size-fits-all". What we're really discussing
here are different philosophies on tuning, as well as different ways
of supporting a broad market.

We've said it time and time again that options are great for the
consumer, and that the differences in the available products will
appeal to the different demographic of enthusiast. Based on that
assessment, I think you and I are more in agreement here than
disagreement.

-Nothing about being turn-key means that our product is entirely
without issues if variables change and the end results vary.
-It also doesn't mean that we will not offer support or recommend
solutions when an issue does arise.

But the fact of the matter is that it will be a far simpler process
when trouble shooting if you have the base knowledge in place
for when/where/why/how your product is meant to perform when
used properly.




Contrary to what you seemed to insinuate in your previous post,
we always do our due diligence when customers report an issue
or share feedback regarding a symptom they are experiencing,
even if/when we feel it may not be software related.

This was the case for the throttle sensitivity reports early on (after
initial release
) when we immediately scheduled multiple cars for
further road testing to work on a software update; and also the
case when aajjcc reported what seemed to be misfires and we
quickly booked an appointment for trouble shooting.

We acknowledge the throttle sensitivity issues and released an
update that was immediately made available by request until we
gathered a large enough sample size to determine that it was a
notable improvement. From that point we applied the changes to
all future software versions and also added the ability for our HEX
Flash Program to clear ECU and TCU adaptations.




Turn-key doesn't mean perfect, but it does mean that there is a
known formula for achieving a desired result. I think what seems
to be the current issue in these debates recently is the idea that
most every issue can be solved through software. The debate is
then more about tuning philosophy and responsibility, and how
involved the consumer wants to be in the end result.

We provide a turn-key solution where if the customer follows the
script, the end result is consistent and repeatable. Other products
like JB4 and BM3 offer the ability for customization and ultimately
transfer the responsibility to the the user. Different strokes for
different folks. There is no right or wrong choice, but expectations
have to be set accordingly.



Lastly,

I do believe you'll be objective and honest, so sure, if you feel
like you could be fully satisfied with an option that does not offer
customization outside of our existing Stage Levels, then I'll have
Gary double check your address and send you a HEX Flash Cable!










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      12-06-2017, 06:33 AM   #70
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For starters thanks for a more professional response

Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post


Sorry, busy weekend and even busier Monday...



Our most recent response was to a claim that "the only Flash
Tuning that has been on the safe side is Bootmod3
". -fsociety

Not only is this completely untrue, it's exactly how rumors are
started; and without rebuttal will be perpetuated by those from
the same camp who either don't know better, or just don't care.
FYI, I believe by "safest" he was referring to being undetectable at the dealership due to the "DME Manipulated" code being suppressed. Now I do know for a fact that PTF were the first to do that for some time before you guys where able to jump into it. Plus with PTF you can switch back to your stock map which also has the DME manipulated code suppressed (not sure if VF does that as well). Of course I personally cannot say which tune is the "safest" in that aspect, but what I can say is that I've taken my car to the dealership with BM3 after exporting it to Kuwait. When a car is imported from another country the dealership here in Kuwait thoroughly inspects it to see if has been modified, damaged, wrecked etc in order for them to honor BMW's warranty and have your car serviced at their dealership (in addition to getting all service reports from when it was in the US). After 3 or 4 days they came back with a ~20 page report with all sorts of ECU data (don't know if it was FASTA data, but it was all sorts of stuff that made no sense to me) and pictures of physically inspected parts of the car. The only thing regarding modifications they listed were my downpipes, which was automatically a red flag to them that the car must be tuned since there was no CEL. But they couldn't detect anything to tell them that my car was tuned so it was not flagged. The shop foreman came to me when I wanted to pickup the car and inquired about my downpipes and how there is no CEL, but I just acted stupid like I didn't know what he's referring to by CEL and deviated the conversation . So for all I know, PTF's tune must be pretty undetectable, although I'm sure if BMW HQ wanted to they have their ways to find out from analyzing FASTA data. But at the dealership level, it's pretty undetectable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post

For BuLoOoSki

At no point did we say our product is perfect, or that it is better
under all circumstances. There is also a very distinct difference
between what we advertise as "Turn-Key" versus what people
interpret as being "one-size-fits-all". What we're really discussing
here are different philosophies on tuning, as well as different ways
of supporting a broad market.

............

We provide a turn-key solution where if the customer follows the
script, the end result is consistent and repeatable. Other products
like JB4 and BM3 offer the ability for customization and ultimately
transfer the responsibility to the the user. Different strokes for
different folks. There is no right or wrong choice, but expectations
have to be set accordingly.
You never specifically said that it was better under ALL circumstances, it would be a disaster has you done that :P. But you have in multiple posts gone to state and/or imply how your products are the most thoroughly tested, being a "turn-key" solution, tune being issue/worry free so customers can just enjoy more time driving etc etc. And all those posts are usually in response to PTF/BM3 related posts. So you see how when that is not true as your product is not issue free and you have no ability to prove that your product is the most thoroughly tested, people don't let those claims just go by unresponded to

You claim that if your customers follow the script the process is repeatable and consistent. You do realize that its the same case with BM3? We all flash using an ENET cable via the same app that always goes through one server. All the OTS maps that come from PTF are locked and are un-editable. So there is no ability to modify them and no responsibility transferred to the consumer as you claim. You have the option to make/edit your own maps, base map a tuner provides to you etc etc. But for those who want a "turn-key" solution and go for an OTS map its flash and forget. In fact there are many users (as you see them posting on the forum sometimes) who just got BM3 via a shop and don't even have the app or have attempted to use any of the features let a lone customizing. They just wanted PTF's tune.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post

But the fact of the matter is that it will be a far simpler process
when trouble shooting if you have the base knowledge in place
for when/where/why/how your product is meant to perform when
used properly.
Agreed, but you don't have a competitive advantage there. Anyone who actually built their own tune has "the base knowledge in place for when/where/why/how their product is meant to perform when
used properly" . So don't see how VF has anything special going on there. If anyone does have a competitive advantage in that aspect its BM3, IMO, as they did in fact define their tables from the ground up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post

Lastly,

I do believe you'll be objective and honest, so sure, if you feel
like you could be fully satisfied with an option that does not offer
customization outside of our existing Stage Levels, then I'll have
Gary double check your address and send you a HEX Flash Cable!
Thanks for saying that, I'm aware that VF doesn't offer customization outside your OTS maps, but I'd be willing to look at in terms of a tune only aspect in comparison with other flash tunes. And not as an entire package/solution/suite such as BM3.
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Last edited by BuLoOoSki; 12-06-2017 at 06:41 AM.
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      12-06-2017, 07:44 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki View Post

FYI, I believe by "safest" he was referring to being undetectable at the dealership due to the "DME Manipulated" code being suppressed. Now I do know for a fact that PTF were the first to do that for some time before you guys where able to jump into it. Plus with PTF you can switch back to your stock map which also has the DME manipulated code suppressed (not sure if VF does that as well).


Even if we assume that's what he meant, the point that we've
been trying to make is that's it's a constant uphill battle dealing
with rumors created/perpetuated by those with an obvious agenda.

I'm not saying that you are one of those with an agenda, but what
you just shared in the quote above to defend his argument is once
again an example of something that is quite misleading and just
not true.



We've had a solution to the tamper code since the initial release
of our F8X ECU software in June of 2015 (pre-map switching),
and was carried over to our "Re-Release" in May of 2016 when
we were the first to offer the GTS Features with MAP Switching
capabilities.

This applied to ALL files generated by our software department,
including our supplied 'stock' files.



While this isn't definitive proof as to who was the first to solve
this issue (which I will add that we have never tried to claim), it
demonstrates how others try to use this sort of information to
discourage people from buying our products or at the very least
insinuates that PTF was the first to do so even though the timeline
suggests otherwise.

For the record; I don't believe that PTF themselves have claimed
to be the first either
but the damage is done when someone like
yourself feels confident enough to say "I do know for a fact...".



Quote:
Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki View Post
You never specifically said that it was better under ALL circumstances, it would be a disaster has you done that :P. But you have in multiple posts gone to state and/or imply how your products are the most thoroughly tested, being a "turn-key" solution, tune being issue/worry free so customers can just enjoy more time driving etc etc. And all those posts are usually in response to PTF/BM3 related posts. So you see how when that is not true as your product is not issue free and you have no ability to prove that your product is the most thoroughly tested, people don't let those claims just go by unresponded to

This is obviously a more debatable topic, but still something we
can support with evidence if people are willing to leave semantics
aside and focus on the facts.



We absolutely believe there is an advantage to having an in house
dyno for development purposes, along with a process for on-road
and off-road testing for validation purposes long before the product
is offered at a consumer level.

Showing examples of instrument testing utilizing EGT probes and
pressure sensors to test the effects of aftermarket modifications and
hardware changes demonstrates thoroughness. Something as simple
as the ability to share multiple dyno plots for each Stage Level that
you offer is proof of (at the very least) power testing, while
also showing that you have the ability to test version changes within
a controlled environment with consistency and repeatability.



We never stated that our product was entirely fee of issues, but we
have proven time and time again through independent testing and
customer reviews that our product delivers as advertised based on
the efforts and groundwork we laid well ahead of release.

The problem seems to be that when a company highlights what they
feel is an attribute of their own products, others (and I'll admit that
we sometime fall into this trap
) will take this as a direct comparison
or knock against themselves.

This isn't about right vs. wrong, better or worse , it's about helping
the customer understand the differences so they can make the most
educated decision based on their own needs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki View Post
Anyone who actually built their own tune has "the base knowledge in place for when/where/why/how their product is meant to perform when
used properly".

We would also argue that this is not entirely true as the full extent of
the "base knowledge" we are referring to is directly proportionate to
the amount of time, effort, resources, and processes in place to acquire
information and validate the results.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki View Post
So don't see how VF has anything special going on there. If anyone does have a competitive advantage in that aspect its BM3, IMO, as they did in fact define their tables from the ground up.


Again, this is not to draw a direct comparison or to take anything
away from BM3, but "defining tables" is the same as translating a
list of ingredients from a German cookbook.

Without getting overly technical here, we are all looking at the
exact same cookbook, and there is no competitive advantage to
be had in this regard. We are all working within the functionality
of the same ECU as designed by Bosch.


Last edited by VF-Engineering; 12-06-2017 at 07:53 PM.
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      12-06-2017, 08:46 PM   #72
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I don't want the discussion to drag on as it could go on forever. All I was trying to say is that everyone should calm down and stop taking things personally/as an attack, ESPECIALLY if that person is a company. But I just want to clarify a few quick points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post


Even if we assume that's what he meant, the point that we've
been trying to make is that's it's a constant uphill battle dealing
with rumors created/perpetuated by those with an obvious agenda.

I'm not saying that you are one of those with an agenda, but what
you just shared in the quote above to defend his argument is once
again an example of something that is quite misleading and just
not true.
It is not an assumption, it is clear from the conversation and preceeding posts what he was referring to. And I'm not trying to "defend" anybody. The whole point I was trying to make from my first response that you shouldn't get so pissy whenever someone posts something that you feel (most of the time incorrectly) somehow translates into making your product look bad. You rushed into making what he said mean that BM3 is safer in terms of a tune (reliability wise/making safe power) when he was CLEARLY referring to something else. So I'm not sure what am I misleading readers into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post

We've had a solution to the tamper code since the initial release
of our F8X ECU software.........While this isn't definitive proof as to who was the first to solve this issue (which I will add that we have never tried to claim), it demonstrates how others try to use this sort of information to
discourage people from buying our products or at the very least insinuates that PTF was the first to do so even though the timeline suggests otherwise.

For the record; I don't believe that PTF themselves have claimed
to be the first either
but the damage is done when someone like
yourself feels confident enough to say "I do know for a fact...".
Do you seriously believe that someone is going to purchase a performance tune and is going to base their judgement on which company to go with by the fact of who first found a fix for tamper code removal?
I mean I get it that it might be a dealbreaker for some if your tune suppressed the code or not, but you seriously think people will be "discouraged" to buy your tune if that trophy is taken away from you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post

Again, this is not to draw a direct comparison or to take anything
away from BM3, but "defining tables" is the same as translating a
list of ingredients from a German cookbook.

Without getting overly technical here, we are all looking at the
exact same cookbook, and there is no competitive advantage to
be had in this regard. We are all working within the functionality
of the same ECU as designed by Bosch.

What about those tables that have meaningless titles in your german cookbook? And if it was such a simple process you wouldn't have the a lot of OTHER tuners selling what's pretty much all the same canned tune when all of them surely have access to your german cookbook as well.
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      12-07-2017, 09:11 PM   #73
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Just a quick reply, and then hopefully we can move onto some
more interesting topics like the Holiday Sales and FREE VBox
giveaways...maybe even full OBDII port flashing.


Quote:
Do you seriously believe that someone is going to purchase a performance tune and is going to base their judgement on which company to go with by the fact of who first found a fix for tamper code removal?

I mean I get it that it might be a dealbreaker for some if your tune suppressed the code or not, but you seriously think people will be "discouraged" to buy your tune if that trophy is taken away from you?


We don't need or want a trophy for anything, especially not in
regards to tamper codes as that is part of our due diligence
as a tuner.

If it seems odd that we continue to harp on these sorts of topics
it's because there are people on these forums such as FSo_c_ty
who actively Private Message people that express their interest
in HEX Tuning, and aggressively try to talk them out of it using
this sort of misinformation.



Quote:
What about those tables that have meaningless titles in your german cookbook? And if it was such a simple process you wouldn't have the a lot of OTHER tuners selling what's pretty much all the same canned tune when all of them surely have access to your german cookbook as well.


At no point did we say any part of it was "simple".

Maybe I should have been more clear that "we all" refers to the top
tuners in this space, which excludes those smaller "tuners" who don't
have the ability to source an A2L or Funktionsrhamen, or who would
never invest that heavily into the development process for a single
ECU category in the first place.

Continuing with the "cookbook" analogy, even if someone were
to have the same list of ingredients, it still takes a knowledgeable
chef to turn those ingredients into a meal, or at least a set recipe
to get started.




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      12-08-2017, 12:40 PM   #74
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C'mon #LOLVF i don't actively message anyone!

If this is my discussion with the M2 owner then that's the only guy I know who has expressed interest in Hex.
And reason we chatted is because he's local and by all means I told him go for it and
let's test it out I LIKE COMPETITION.
Why bring N55 convo/topic into F80 ? Great Professionalism Hurray VF! Needs to deflect the topic to another individual haha!

But why are you making things up? You don't see me mentioning your dirty laundry with TONS of customers switching over from all your issues.
Most of them have left and ditch you for Bootmod3 and even this particular guy https://www.instagram.com/p/BapHra-FAMq/
I'm sure you know well " darthvaderm3 " went with another tuner of his choice too. WHY ? Ask yourself

To End, this is not about ANYONE showing interest in HEX Tuning its just YOU are being questioned.
NOBODY in my INBOX has ever SHOWN INTEREST in Hex


TGIF !!! #LOLVF

Last edited by FSociety; 12-08-2017 at 12:48 PM.
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      12-08-2017, 01:20 PM   #75
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For neutrals like me (who's aiming for a flash-tuned M2 or M3 in my future), all this fanboy-ism is pretty obnoxious. Generally, it seems like the vast majority of people with an F80/F82 will be happiest with either a BM3 or Hex tune, while the remainder may want/need a JB4 for certain applications. It's genuinely great to hear that there are a lot of happy BM3 customers out there -- it sounds like a dynamic, high-quality platform -- but why some feel the need to be aggressively #teamBM3 or #teamVF is beyond me. If the end-user is happy with his choice, then that's really the end of the discussion. There's a big difference between education and advocacy, and it seems that this distinction is lost on some people.

Happy Friday from a jealous non-M owner. Whatever tune/piggyback you're using, please do a nice third gear pull for me...

Last edited by velociti; 12-08-2017 at 01:31 PM.
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      12-08-2017, 02:22 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
C'mon #LOLVF i don't actively message anyone!

If this is my discussion with the M2 owner then that's the only guy I know who has expressed interest in Hex.
And reason we chatted is because he's local and by all means I told him go for it and
let's test it out I LIKE COMPETITION.
Why bring N55 convo/topic into F80 ? Great Professionalism Hurray VF! Needs to deflect the topic to another individual haha!

But why are you making things up? You don't see me mentioning your dirty laundry with TONS of customers switching over from all your issues.
Most of them have left and ditch you for Bootmod3 and even this particular guy https://www.instagram.com/p/BapHra-FAMq/
I'm sure you know well " darthvaderm3 " went with another tuner of his choice too. WHY ? Ask yourself

To End, this is not about ANYONE showing interest in HEX Tuning its just YOU are being questioned.
NOBODY in my INBOX has ever SHOWN INTEREST in Hex


TGIF !!! #LOLVF

I'm not sure which M2 owner you're referring to, but it is
quite interesting that you went from;

"I don't actively message anyone...".
- to -
"If this is my discussion with the M2 owner...".



How about this; We're in a public forum and you're free to
post anything you wish. But when you say something such as
"Tons of customers..." and "all your issues" why don't you just
go all the way and be specific?



As a company we've got nothing to hide. It's a competitive industry
and customers go back and forth. We gain customers who come
from other brands, and we we've lost customers as well when they
decide to upgrade turbos, or get the itch to try out something new.

I can guarantee we recommend more customers to BM3 from the
start if they are requesting something we don't offer, versus the
number of customers who proactively switch because they have
had "issues" with our products.



The fact of the matter is that we've been in this industry for nearly
20 years and have had worthy competition the entire way. This has
never been a VF/HEX versus BM3/PTF conversation as we respect
what they bring to the game. This is about consumer bias and the
right we have to respond to misinformation and rumors.

Feel free to go back to our ♛ OFFICIAL ♛ HEX Tuning BMW (F8x)
thread. We didn't even make it past the first page before the rumor
mill started turning!

Quote:
POST#13: Cool. Another re-branded bench flash.
Throughout the next 91 Pages and nearly 2,000 posts, we squashed
that rumor and many many more. One of the best things we learned
over the past 20 years we've been in this industry is that if you're part
of the conversation people are having (publicly or privately) you must
be doing something right, so just keep doing it!





Last edited by VF-Engineering; 12-08-2017 at 03:05 PM. Reason: Typo
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      12-09-2017, 03:16 AM   #77
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This was a very interesting thread to read... Sorry, Tedious.

I enjoyed reading VF Engineerings detailed responses. It is nice to see a company representative who is on the forums actively that has a clue.

I actually before this wasn't so hot on the HEX ecu flash, but reading VF's posts has inspired more confidence. I really like that VF is upfront with providing a stock dyno plot, and then compares it against the tune versions. APR I know for sure does this which I like, and burger tuning provides them as well.

BM3/PTF on the bootmod3 website, I spent a little bit looking around, checked a few sections for the s55 and the OTS bit, and I couldn't find any dyno plots for their product. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying if they do, they haven't put the pictures up on what I assume is their official website (bootmod3.com)

I just think some people on here are trying real hard to be internet hard-asses for no good reason. Good on you VF for showing them more respect than they showed you, and answering their questions in a professional manner.
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      12-09-2017, 09:13 AM   #78
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Did you actually look though? Its right in their FAQ and tons of stuff on their gram:

https://www.protuningfreaks.com/pages/bootmod3-faq
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