Rumor: F30/F32 M3 to Get Tri-Turbo V6 Engine

[mkoesel]

I read and understood it just fine though, Uli.

You guys need to appreciate and accept the realities of building the complex electro-mechanical machines that are modern automobiles. You don't go into bubba's shop, grab a sawzall, lob off two cylinders from the front or back of the engine and call it done. The whole thing needs to be reengineered from the ground up. Just look at the differences between the S65 and S85 for some examples. And again, that completely ignores the balance issues. Or look at how much companies like RS motorsports spend on the Hayabusa V8s. It's just two I4s, so it's easy right? Wrong. Those things took years to develop and perfect.

It's simply not realistic to think that a V6 based on the N63 is elementary to design or even likely to materialize. Is it possible? Sure, anything is. But spending that heap of cash on an M3 motor when they already have an I6 seems like a undertaking of dubious tangible value. I am skeptical at best.

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

Thats totally right ... there is no ... no ... no ... chance that the M-GmbH would develop an new White-Paper V6 for the new F3x M3 ... people must read threads in the right way. The rumor is not about an new V6 for this car ... the rumor is about taking the S63TT from the ongoing M5 with 2 cylinder less ... so you get an potent 3.3ltr.V6TT and then put an third Turbo ontop/ in the V. This engine could also share many parts with the V8 S63!

Uli_HH

[M///1rider]

hey guys just wondering when this car is going to be released, 2012, 2013 this engine seems pretty beast i would love a v6 tri-turbo seems like a pretty cool concept but whichever route they go the new turboed m3 is going to be really sick and interesting. Tuners dream especially since this thing will probably be pushing somthing close to 400 hp stock im guessing with this new m turboed engine people should be able to get close to the 600 on crank hp.

[badsha]

would be very strange, as 3 turbos, chnace that one yurbo willl be dead in short time

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I read and understood it just fine though, Uli.

You guys need to appreciate and accept the realities of building the complex electro-mechanical machines that are modern automobiles. You don't go into bubba's shop, grab a sawzall, lob off two cylinders from the front or back of the engine and call it done. The whole thing needs to be reengineered from the ground up. Just look at the differences between the S65 and S85 for some examples. And again, that completely ignores the balance issues. Or look at how much companies like RS motorsports spend on the Hayabusa V8s. It's just two I4s, so it's easy right? Wrong. Those things took years to develop and perfect.

It's simply not realistic to think that a V6 based on the N63 is elementary to design or even likely to materialize. Is it possible? Sure, anything is. But spending that heap of cash on an M3 motor when they already have an I6 seems like a undertaking of dubious tangible value. I am skeptical at best.

I don´t think that it was easy (or really cheap) to develop an V6 from the S63 V8TT ... so if the BMW does this, there must be strange reasons for doing so ... clear is that an 3.0ltr. I6 with BiTurbo layout based on the N55 couldn´t reach the wished HP-Numbers from 450+ without reliability issues ... so they developed the 3.5ltr. I6TTT, that some people have allready seen in an early M3 F30 Prototype ... so one reason could be that also this engine develops problems, so that they had to change the engine choise - we have here an thread, were it was discussed that it wouldn´t be so easy to bring an N55 engine block to 3.5ltr.(!) ... the other reason only could be that an compact V6 layout better fits into the new lightweight thinking of BMW M.

Uli_HH

[Prophizee]

Yeah he said it should take about two days but he is finding out today if vdc is closed this fri and the entire weekend so I'll let you know after lunch

[DDS2015]

Hang on a minute though here. I remember reading somewhere (maybe from scott26, don't quite remember where) that in the future, all M engines will be based off of normal BMW engines but reengineered in their own way (the S63 for instance which uses the same block, but different pistons, crank, head, etc.). SO if this rumor is true, that means that we will be seeing a V6 engine from BMW in the F3X 3-series. We all know that the chances of this happening are very slim, so I think that this rumor is just that, a rumor.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

clear is that an 3.0ltr. I6 with BiTurbo layout based on the N55 couldn´t reach the wished HP-Numbers from 450+ without reliability issues ...

I continue to disagree with this notion.

First off, 150hp/L is not at all out of reach. There have been ~300hp 2L turbo motors out there in production cars for over a decade, probably more. So 450hp is achievable from 3L.

Secondly, there could be some mild-hybrid assistance. Maybe not Kers, but soemthing else like an electric motor built into the engine behind the flywheel as seen on some mild hybrids. This could add as much as 50hp, maybe more.

Third, they may have found a way to use the larger bore (note *not stroke*, the S54 and N55 have the same stroke, and I still remain firm in my belief that a stroker is out of the question) as seen on the S54 but with an aluminum block instead. This would allow 3.2L and at 150hp/L, this would yield 480hp. They could even combine this with the solution above for over 500hp.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by DDS2015

We all know that the chances of this happening are very slim, so I think that this rumor is just that, a rumor.

Actually, I think it is more likely than we would like to think. But I don't expect it in the current generation of cars (F0x, F1x, F2x, F3x).

And yes, as I have said in the past, if BMW were to switch the corporate six cylinder to a V6, then a V6 M3 becomes likely. In fact, I would not just say it is likely, I would then suggest it is all but certain.

[Diver]

A V6 is hardly based on a V8 with two cylinders chopped off. What I bet we see will be an N55 with a larger turbo and some strengthened internals.

[and 1]

as long as it has good fuel pumps...

VERY interested to see how they solve the n54's issues (and n55? i haven't followed that at all). i can only imagine how much fuel flow a tri-turbo S engine would take...

with all that said, i think the tri is the most likely, as much as i hate to say it:
- keep the cylinder modularity concept that (iirc) scott26 posted about a while ago
- s63 - 2 cyl = 3.3L
- major trend of turbo-ing everything in sight

i really wanna see/feel how an turbo S-engine drives...i wonder how much throttle response they'll be able to get out of it. no doubt that's gonna be their biggest priority and challenge in developing this beast (close second are heat dissipation and fuel pump/supply). the n54 with a jb3 does a pretty good job, so the potential is there, but it's still not instant like an n/a motor. dunno if it ever could be. but if anyone can do it, it's M

[natelam]

wow crazy

[Bowser330]

crazy talk hahaha.... tri-turbo pssshhhhh hahahaha

It will be a bored out version of the N55 with strengthened internals and free flowing heads, with dual twinpower turbos...all of which has been mentioned before...that will easily be able to support 450hp in stock form...

Hell an N54 with 15psi and and intake puts out almost 350whp (418hp)...

[Ash83]

V6 !!!!!! it is not gonna happen

Senior BMW Engineers will quit to prevent this from happening.

[sebaflex]

v6? i will miss our 8,000rpm redline.

[huyner328]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_918

Get familiar.

That's what the new M3 is going to be like, and future innovations in the motoring world.

And, I'd take an N/A car over an F/I 10 out of 10 times.

[ihyln]

One Turbo

Two Turbos

Three Turbos!

AH! AH! AH!

[Diver]

A 918 costs about $918,000, so a comparison is useless. BMW is so closely associated with inline 6 cylinder engines that a V-6 seems so foreign, modularity or not. You want an NA v-6, get a 370 Z and suffer.

[TJDiCandido]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

Thats totally right ... there is no ... no ... no ... chance that the M-GmbH would develop an new White-Paper V6 for the new F3x M3 ... people must read threads in the right way. The rumor is not about an new V6 for this car ... the rumor is about taking the S63TT from the ongoing M5 with 2 cylinder less ... so you get an potent 3.3ltr.V6TT and then put an third Turbo ontop/ in the V. This engine could also share many parts with the V8 S63!

Uli_HH

Sacrilege!

This V6 rumor should trouble all M enthusiasts for many reasons, not the least of which is because the S63 is a pseudo-Motorsport engine that was slapped together to power pseudo-M SAVs. The S63 V8 in the X5M and X6M SAVs shares the same internals as the N63 V8 in the X5 and X6 SAVs. The S63 wasn’t uniquely developed by BMW’s Motorsport division (like the S54 was).

I just hope BMW doesn’t continue diluting the “M” brand by introducing ordinary BMW engines and/or forced induction in the M3…

[Robo Squirrel]

this would be EPIC FAIL

[silentassasin]

Can't wait to see that set up. I wonder where performance will be at.

[r3dbimmer89]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

What disrespect are you talking about? Posts like these are just so ridiculous. Because they "might" go with a V6 over their I6? Give me a break. Did you complain when you heard they put a V8 into the e92? A newly developed engine on top of that... Whatever the folks at the M GmbH are cooking up - it will be pretty amazing.

You don't get the picture....BMW is known for their inline sixes.....it is a part of their company culture....and putting a V6 into any BMW would be like BMW changing the roundel from blue and white to pink and white...

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89

You don't get the picture....BMW is known for their inline sixes.....it is a part of their company culture....and putting a V6 into any BMW would be like BMW changing the roundel from blue and white to pink and white...

Similar story happened when BMW was losing in horsepower war 6 years ago, and decided to forced induction route instead of BMW's tradition of naturally aspirated engines.

Who cares if its V6 or Inline 6. Tradition is meant to be broken, and forwarding steps must be taken in order to improve and advance. Being stuck at one thing because it was "the image" of the brand is a express way to failure. Time has changed and world is moving at a faster pace than ever before. As long as BMW keeps their connected feel with drivers, there shouldn't be any problem.