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      06-16-2011, 12:21 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
There will be no M version of the BMWi Eco-Sports Car i8.
To do so defeats the entire purpose of BMWi which is seen as a new interpretation of mobility.

BMW i8 is not just a regular BMW with a sub-brand badge. it is entirely new from the design , technology ,material technology and powertrain.

This is not a BMW as we know it. This is BMW bringing that future of mobility today in a new concept - There will be no other car like it , and the same goes for the i3.

The countdown to the future starts @ the IAA in September.

But just as BMWi is a sub-brand with stand alone products. BMW M is on course to have it's own stand-alone product-A pure BMW M project. Which BMW M will be the first sharer of material technology within BMW.
But that is in the early stages of conception.

BMW M are flat-out finishing off the M6 now that the M3 Lightweight Sedan and M5 are complete (And debuting next Thursday and Tuesday respectively).

The X3 M and a special X6M is being prepared aswell as the early prototypes of the run-out and next M3 in which the new BMW 4er Coupe prototypes will be on the road any day soon. Plus some other projects that are in the process of development including the Material Technology Concept.
Can you tell us when information will be released regarding this run-out version of the E92 M3 and whether it will be available in the US?
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      06-16-2011, 11:23 AM   #244
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Because it follows the interpretation of the M3 Lightweight Sedan (which is coming next Week) allbeit with a few more changes it is still in the early stages of prototypes and decisions, It wont come out till about mid- 2012. So there is a long way to go.

But if you take into consideration the number of units , production timeframe etc , the transition to federalisation and so on...
It might not be cost effective for BMW to offer the car in the US .
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      06-16-2011, 02:36 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Because it follows the interpretation of the M3 Lightweight Sedan (which is coming next Week) allbeit with a few more changes it is still in the early stages of prototypes and decisions, It wont come out till about mid- 2012. So there is a long way to go.

But if you take into consideration the number of units , production timeframe etc , the transition to federalisation and so on...
It might not be cost effective for BMW to offer the car in the US .
That sounds as though we won't be getting it over here in the US again, just like the E46 CSL.

The quickness with which the more expensive GTS sold out must have shown BMW there is ample market for a higher end product, not to mention the benefits of offering a halo product as BMW's competition currently offers.

If the US is the largest market for M cars, how can BMW continue to leave us out of the party for its best and most focused products? Surely the strategy of keeping customers within the brand when they are financially able to upgrade above a standard M3 cannot rely entirely on the M5 and M6, cars which by BMW's own admission are less sporty than the cheaper M3.

There are so many like myself that wish to upgrade to a sportier car than the standard M3, yet BMW seems content having us look towards Porsche for the 911 line, or Audi for the R8 line, or most directly related; Mercedes for the Black Series Line.

How was Mercedes able to offer us the CLK 63 AMG Black Series? Clearly it was cost effective because they are now soon to release a C63 AMG Black Series in both coupe and sedan form. Meanwhile BMW cannot bring us even one sportier version of the M3? I find this very hard to believe, since the market for an E92 M3 CSL should easily outpace that for the Black Series.

Is there anything we can do here on M3post to help convince BMW to bring the car here this go around?

Last edited by HBspeed; 06-16-2011 at 02:56 PM.
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      06-16-2011, 02:53 PM   #246
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I dream about the S65 bi turbo F3X M3 on a daily basis. Any updates on that?
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      06-16-2011, 02:58 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
I dream about the S65 bi turbo F3X M3 on a daily basis. Any updates on that?
+1, I love S65.

They'll should make the S65B40/4 bi-turbo
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      06-16-2011, 03:25 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
That sounds as though we won't be getting it over here in the US again, just like the E46 CSL.

The quickness with which the more expensive GTS sold out must have shown BMW there is ample market for a higher end product, not to mention the benefits of offering a halo product as BMW's competition currently offers.

If the US is the largest market for M cars, how can BMW continue to leave us out of the party for its best and most focused products? Surely the strategy of keeping customers within the brand when they are financially able to upgrade above a standard M3 cannot rely entirely on the M5 and M6, cars which by BMW's own admission are less sporty than the cheaper M3.

There are so many like myself that wish to upgrade to a sportier car than the standard M3, yet BMW seems content having us look towards Porsche for the 911 line, or Audi for the R8 line, or most directly related; Mercedes for the Black Series Line.

How was Mercedes able to offer us the CLK 63 AMG Black Series? Clearly it was cost effective because they are now soon to release a C63 AMG Black Series in both coupe and sedan form. Meanwhile BMW cannot bring us even one sportier version of the M3? I find this very hard to believe, since the market for an E92 M3 CSL should easily outpace that for the Black Series.

Is there anything we can do here on M3post to help convince BMW to bring the car here this go around?
+1
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      06-16-2011, 04:07 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Since I agree the Black Series is closest to the M, would you pay 150K for an M3 GTS/CSL/whatever they decide to call it? The reason I ask is because that was the pricing on the CLK 63 BS and an M3 would likely be more closely priced to that car based on the fact they wouldnt be able to sell that many than it would be priced like a normal m3 coupe with sells for 75K.
Last time I checked, the M3 GTS (the most hardcore car BMW has) only sold a measly 120 cars or something like that, and it was more expensive than a GT3, yet could barely keep pace with a 5 year old GT3.
The thing is, 99% of people who buy M3s want an all around car. One that has a back seat, praticality, and most of all gadgets. I know everyone here likes to say they would buy a GTS, but fact of the matter is, hardly anyone here would do so because it would lose 99% of things that make the M3 a great car and wouldnt have what they wanted/needed. For the price BMW would need to charge, there are far better cars.

Companies like Porsche and Ferrari can sell all the GT3s, Scuderias etc they want (which isnt many, usually only a few thousand) because they have the clientele that is willing to spend that kind of money on them and have the strongest client base for that market as well.
You are completely right. Neither myself nor many others are looking for a GTS type M3 in the 150k range. In relation the the Mercedes Black Series, most information I have been reading so far indicates the C63 versions will be significantly less expensive than the CLK based version from a few years back. For instance, I don't see the point in removing the back seats in a car that is starting relatively large and heavy. If you want a 2 seater get a 2 seater, not a car with space for 4 adults.

Once you go much past 100k, I agree that BMW cannot be competitive utilizing the M3 platform. Once you starting moving into 6 figures, nearly all of us interested in such a car are going to go with a sports car that is on a dedicated platform such as the 911 or R8.

What BMW needs is a more focused sporting alternative to the M5 and M6 at their price point. Enter the E90 M3 EVO or whatever it is going to be officially named. BMW has stated themselves it is going to serve as a middle ground between the base M3 and the GTS. Therefore if you take the base M3 price of under 60k and that of the 150k GTS you get something right around 100k.

That's why this E90 M3 EVO concept makes perfect sense for the US market. If BMW were to take the base E92 M3 and add the GTS suspension, brakes, and exhaust you would already be well on your way. If such a car were built utilizing these GTS parts from the bin, and subsequently add lightweight body panels and engine tweaks up to a base price point in the 90k-100k range, BMW would have a clear winner on its hands. I would love to hear a rational argument as to why this would not work.
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      06-16-2011, 04:25 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
That's why this E90 M3 EVO concept makes perfect sense for the US market. If BMW were to take the base E92 M3 and add the GTS suspension, brakes, and exhaust you would already be well on your way. If such a car were built utilizing these GTS parts from the bin, and subsequently add lightweight body panels and engine tweaks up to a base price point in the 90k-100k range, BMW would have a clear winner on its hands. I would love to hear a rational argument as to why this would not work.
Add light weight seats to the equation. And the base price could be with no AC and no radio. The engine can stay the same. It is already a very powerfull engine and with taking 200-300lbs of weight, it will be even more lively. But a car like this is less profitable than making special editions with frozen paints..
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      06-16-2011, 05:21 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
Add light weight seats to the equation. And the base price could be with no AC and no radio. The engine can stay the same. It is already a very powerfull engine and with taking 200-300lbs of weight, it will be even more lively. But a car like this is less profitable than making special editions with frozen paints..
So true. And that is why people like me are now looking to Porsche, Audi and Mercedes for sports cars built without compromise and for the enthusiast.

Those manufacturers have the passion to give US buyers their most focused efforts.

BMW seems to be making these decisions based solely on the guidance of their bean counters and investors. Mortgaging the hard earned credentials of the M brand for a few short term financial gains. Especially at a time when M cars are moving away from their long held principle of natural aspiration, a nod to the enthusiast base seems in order unless they want to lose many of them for good.
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      06-16-2011, 05:31 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
So true. And that is why people like me are now looking to Porsche, Audi and Mercedes for sports cars built without compromise and for the enthusiast.

Those manufacturers have the passion to give US buyers their most focused efforts.

BMW seems to be making these decisions based solely on the guidance of their bean counters and investors. Mortgaging the hard earned credentials of the M brand for a few short term financial gains. Especially at a time when M cars are moving away from their long held principle of natural aspiration, a nod to the enthusiast base seems in order unless they want to lose many of them for good.
Get real. Mercedes and Audi don't belong with Porsche in your first paragraph.
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      06-16-2011, 05:45 PM   #253
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Get real. Mercedes and Audi don't belong with Porsche in your first paragraph.
So what is your take on the Mercedes SLS AMG or CLK 63 AMG Black Series?

How about the Audi R8 GT?

All of which are available in the US.
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      06-17-2011, 07:40 AM   #254
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The problem of BMW M is the M3, it is too important concerning the brand image. But I still do not think an "M10" Supercar car would dammage the image, in fact everybody knows the M3 is a great car but is NO 911, R8 or Ferrari. The Problem is that BMW has no stand alone M Car, with 2 seats M platform, M powertrain and M drivetrain.
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      06-17-2011, 09:22 AM   #255
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The problem of BMW M is the M3, it is too important concerning the brand image. But I still do not think an "M10" Supercar car would dammage the image, in fact everybody knows the M3 is a great car but is NO 911, R8 or Ferrari. The Problem is that BMW has no stand alone M Car, with 2 seats M platform, M powertrain and M drivetrain.
The only problem with this plan is that M powertrain is dead.
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      06-17-2011, 04:03 PM   #256
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M Powertrain is dead = M GmbH is dead


R.I.P
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      06-17-2011, 04:12 PM   #257
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please dont use the n54
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      06-17-2011, 11:32 PM   #258
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I think the S63 bi-turbo would be a good set-up. The engine mass is moved toward the center of the car to improve weight distribution and the turbos can deliver a broad torque band from 1300 rpm to 6,000 rpm. What's not to like?
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      06-17-2011, 11:43 PM   #259
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I think the S63 bi-turbo would be a good set-up. The engine mass is moved toward the center of the car to improve weight distribution and the turbos can deliver a broad torque band from 1300 rpm to 6,000 rpm. What's not to like?
The problem is that BMW has drank it own kool aid on a 50-50 weight distribution. Even if another engine design could improve it more toward a rear bias BMW would probably purposefully push it back to 50-50.

The problem with a turbo charged M3 is mainly the visceral race car like scream of a very finely tuned engine at 8000+ rpm with a totally linear power curve all the way up. Performance wise the new car will win for sure. Nonetheless we can not down play the significance of the emotional aspects of a Ferrari type engine experience.
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      06-18-2011, 08:07 PM   #260
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Talking S65 V8 Biturbo!

S65 V8 Biturbo: YES!!!


...though the other options aren't bad either...besides the V6!

If they do the V6, then.....

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      06-18-2011, 09:33 PM   #261
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The problem is that BMW has drank it own kool aid on a 50-50 weight distribution. Even if another engine design could improve it more toward a rear bias BMW would probably purposefully push it back to 50-50.

The problem with a turbo charged M3 is mainly the visceral race car like scream of a very finely tuned engine at 8000+ rpm with a totally linear power curve all the way up. Performance wise the new car will win for sure. Nonetheless we can not down play the significance of the emotional aspects of a Ferrari type engine experience.
Well, BMW was also promoting high revving NA engines. Forget about high revving, they won't have any NA engines soon. So 50-50 weight distribution can change to 40-60, or 60-40 no problems...
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      06-18-2011, 10:18 PM   #262
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The reality is that it will most likely get a TT V6. They will take the F10 M5 engine and chop off two cylinders like that did with the precious model. Why do so many have an issue with this? It will have 450 HP and get much better fuel mileage. BMW has committed to making this change and I'm sure the end result will be awesome!
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      06-18-2011, 10:20 PM   #263
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I meant previous not precious. Lol
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      06-19-2011, 02:47 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
Well, BMW was also promoting high revving NA engines. Forget about high revving, they won't have any NA engines soon. So 50-50 weight distribution can change to 40-60, or 60-40 no problems...
Hmmm....you bring up a good point.
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