What’s going on with GTS prices?

[sterile stork]

Interesting to see other discussion boards talking about this model--albeit in comparisons/hypothetical dream garages--and yet again not fairing well...

M3 Forum, which for a long time now has been regarded as a Porsche-owner forum, heh:

M3Forum

VWVortex where an interesting conversation has been going on as well:

VWVortex

In short, an affinity toward other market offerings even at the $100K price-point. What could BMW have done to better afford this model to have been a successful venture? Part of me wonders if bringing the E92 GTS back when it unveiled could have helped to warm the appetite of American buyers? OH well.

[VCP]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

For me, there was an upside. I was not “worthy” enough to get a voucher and I was able to get a Gts at a good price later on. Best car I ever owned!
Down side? I am getting hooked and track days are expensive.

[adrdie]

I just got one 5 days ago, and plain and simply cannot stop smiling. The driving capabilities of this car are out of this world. I have only had M cars for the past 10 years, and driven every M model available. I also have an E30 M3 currently. This is to me the best car the M division has created to date, and the true modern embodiment of the E30 M3. Question: Does anyone know how I can find out which production number my GTS is among the 700 globally? It is a December 2016 production so I am guessing one of the last ones. For limited production cars I wish BMW would place a plaque on the dashboard indicating the individual car's production number. Thanks!

[adrdie]

Originally Posted by VCP

I hear you! The only problem this car has is that you cannot stop driving it! LOL

[hi_officer]

Originally Posted by adrdie

I just got one 5 days ago, and plain and simply cannot stop smiling. The driving capabilities of this car are out of this world. I have only had M cars for the past 10 years, and driven every M model available. I also have an E30 M3 currently. This is to me the best car the M division has created to date, and the true modern embodiment of the E30 M3. Question: Does anyone know how I can find out which production number my GTS is among the 700 globally? It is a December 2016 production so I am guessing one of the last ones. For limited production cars I wish BMW would place a plaque on the dashboard indicating the individual car's production number. Thanks!

congrats! Did you buy the one from Main Line? That was listed for like $93k but now it doesn't show up in the search.

btw, BMW made way more than 700 GTSs globally

[adrdie]

Originally Posted by VCP

Originally Posted by sterile stork

Interesting to see other discussion boards talking about this model--albeit in comparisons/hypothetical dream garages--and yet again not fairing well...

M3 Forum, which for a long time now has been regarded as a Porsche-owner forum, heh:

M3Forum

VWVortex where an interesting conversation has been going on as well:

VWVortex

In short, an affinity toward other market offerings even at the $100K price-point. What could BMW have done to better afford this model to have been a successful venture? Part of me wonders if bringing the E92 GTS back when it unveiled could have helped to warm the appetite of American buyers? OH well.

Have you seen this one?

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by adrdie

I just got one 5 days ago, and plain and simply cannot stop smiling. The driving capabilities of this car are out of this world. I have only had M cars for the past 10 years, and driven every M model available. I also have an E30 M3 currently. This is to me the best car the M division has created to date, and the true modern embodiment of the E30 M3. Question: Does anyone know how I can find out which production number my GTS is among the 700 globally? It is a December 2016 production so I am guessing one of the last ones. For limited production cars I wish BMW would place a plaque on the dashboard indicating the individual car's production number. Thanks!

Congrats! And it gets even better with time as you get to know the car...
Like you, I came out of 12 years of M3 ownership and I cannot believe how different the Gts feels.
You are correct. The last ones came out at the end of December 2016. Total production was 803 and not 700 though...
Welcome to the club!

[VCP]

Originally Posted by adrdie

Have you seen this one?

lol I was half a year into ownership when this came out. I had a bit different overall opinion by that time

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Sorry, lengthy perspective here…

Feel like perhaps one of the most significant factors in the U.S. GTS price drop is being overlooked: The emergence of the excellent and affordable American track car market.

Given the MSRP and common country of origin, the natural comparison is the GT3. Plenty of GT3 talk in this thread. Various Euro publications have compared the two cars on road and track as well.

But American track cars are few and far between, or unavailable in Europe. They're in surplus here.

Corvette Grand Sport, Mustang GT350R (not widely available, but you can find them), Camaro ZL1 1LE, before that the Z/28, which can be had for low 40's now with an active bumper to bumper warranty. (I bought a Z new for almost 35% off MSRP just over a year ago.)

It was primarily the speculators who bought the GTS @ MSRP and above when it first arrived.

Now that its future as a garage queen collector car and appreciating asset is quite clearly in question, it's being evaluated by potential buyers according to actual use.

It's way too compromised to be a street car of choice, and so as a track car -- people like me are asking themselves, is it what I'd choose to track over alternatives?

Saw my first GTS in the flesh a few days ago and gave it a thorough look over. Drool-worthy. Loved every bit of it. I'm an M fanboy, have been for decades. First production M track car that I've ever seen and I wanted to hug it.

Then saw a ZL1 1LE at a dealership the next day and wanted that as well, had visions of bludgeoning my local track…

ZL1 1LE is already dropping below MSRP, $5-$6k off (MURICA). So one can be had in the mid to high 60's. If GM once again puts out a supply that vastly exceeds demand it could go notably lower.

Do I want to track the GTS enough to pay (nowadays) $30k more for a used one with a fading warranty? $20k more than a slightly used GT350R? $30-$35k more than a new Grand Sport? Not sure about that.

Add to all of this the fact that the GTS was not well reviewed as a track car, and you have the perfect recipe for depreciation.

I'm not saying that it's direct cause and effect in terms of the American track car market and the GTS, but surely these cars haven't helped GTS values. Especially among track guys who evaluate cars according to real world use -- fun, reliability, running costs, etc. If it's not a collector car in the same vein as a 458 Speciale, Scuderia, low mileage GT3 RS, etc. then it is what it was engineered to be, a street legal track car in the same category as a variety of other rippers that happen to be notably cheaper.

Not intending to offend any owners, but unless there's some compelling reason for values to trend the other way, e.g. BMW M announces no more track-focused editions for the U.S., I think used GTS's drop into the 80's or even lower. $7Xk to $90k makes sense to me, a track guy, stupidly loyal M enthusiast, and actual user.

(On a related note, I remain convinced nearly all GTS track criticism is due to flawed setup. This would be the first M car that I've ever known not to respond well to coils, aero, and weight reduction. And it's from the factory. I'm not buying it. Know of a race shop or two that could dial that thing in and I'll bet it's an assassin. )

Good points. You can find 17 GT350s for under MSRP now too with a bit of looking.

[smh_amg_m4gts]

Cars are never a good medium of investment...I just like being 1 of xxx.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by smh_amg_m4gts

Cars are never a good medium of investment...I just like being 1 of xxx.

Sure won’t see one at every cars and coffee...
Agree on the investment part. Even the 911Rs are going down now. From up to $1 million at the hight of the market 1 year ago to about $380,000 now...

[Miamistv]

Not sure what is going on across the country with GTS prices, but they may be firming up. A friend of mine thought he had a deal on a new GTS from a dealer at a price substantially below sticker last week and when he went to close the deal they backed out and wanted more money.

[jpdchicago]

Less than 20 new ones left out of 800. Will be gone by spring. Especially when M4CS comes out at over $105,000 with no ceramic brakes or water injection...
Also, I could be wrong but I do not think the M4CS will be a limited production model like the M3CS. Basically as many as they can build until the end of production. No one knows for sure...

[kkc427]

Which BMW dealer?

[johnnylib68]

Toy Barn in Ohio just sold a GTS with carbon wheels for $90k.

[RandyC54]

My take: Speculators thought they had the opportunity to turn the GTS into a 911R opportunity (Porsche made more 911R's than BMW made GTSs) because they don't know car guys. The M4 GTS is the pinnacle of all BMW's ever sold, and if you are a BMW guy, then this is your car. Period. They have depreciated at the moment far more than any othe BMW in recent memory, but the market is clearly now back on the rebound.

If you are thinking about a GM or Ford as an alternate, then you are not the target market for this car under any circumstances. Same for Porsche.

Bottom line, this car will be selling for $90-110k in 5 years, and will be a car you look back at as you walk away from it. It's damn fast on the track, and if you are really a BMW guy then the total cost of ownership for this car is going to be comparable to the depreciation of a cheaper Chevy or Ford over the long haul, yet will be more satisfying every day. It's a special car. Pat should buy one and stop worrying about the future.

[RandyC54]

There are plenty of cars out there still, but mostly white now. The supply is coming down, and the market prices seem to have bottomed out. Personally, as an owner, I am not particularly interested in helping or cheering for the prices to continue to come down. When most of the cars bought by speculators are gone, this will be a $120k car in a couple of years. In the mean time, drive your car and enjoy it. If you are looking for a steal, then don't expect owners to participate in that.

[RandyC54]

The market seems to have dipped down to mid-90s and has popped back up to $100k and up online. White cars are the majority, and the best deals. I think the cars bought by speculators are beginning to dwindle a bit, and the guys waiting on the sidelines are picking up cars now that the bottom was hit, and they want to track these things at the lowest price.

The reality is, there are Porsche people, and there are BMW people. If you are a BMW guy, this is simply your car. There is nothing else to add. It's within a tick of a GT3 at most tracks, is exceptionally cool and gorgeous, and it's the pinnacle BMW. Mic drop.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by RandyC54

The market seems to have dipped down to mid-90s and has popped back up to $100k and up online. White cars are the majority, and the best deals. I think the cars bought by speculators are beginning to dwindle a bit, and the guys waiting on the sidelines are picking up cars now that the bottom was hit, and they want to track these things at the lowest price.

The reality is, there are Porsche people, and there are BMW people. If you are a BMW guy, this is simply your car. There is nothing else to add. It's within a tick of a GT3 at most tracks, is exceptionally cool and gorgeous, and it's the pinnacle BMW. Mic drop.

I agree with you on all of the above except the BMW vs Porsche idea. I know at least two people (and I am sure there are more on this forum) who own both a 911 GT3RS and a M4 GTS and they enjoy both. Different feel, power delivery and driving sensations on the track...

[RandyC54]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

I agree with you on all of the above except the BMW vs Porsche idea. I know at least two people (and I am sure there are more on this forum) who own both a 911 GT3RS and a M4 GTS and they enjoy both. Different feel, power delivery and driving sensations on the track...

Yep, I too have both a Porsche and M4 GTS. Different cars, both highly entertaining and fast on the track, but in different ways. Few are fortunate to be so blessed. This car was primarily designed for BMW fans, first and foremost.

[x.shell]

I posted about this GTS back in Nov 2016. It was marked up to $250k at the time. Last month it was still on the showroom floor. Price was slashed down to about $110k. I was tempted to buy it.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by exo-shell

I posted about this GTS back in Nov 2016. It was marked up to $250k at the time. Last month it was still on the showroom floor. Price was slashed down to about $110k. I was tempted to buy it.

What's up with the rims?