What Size PSS for OEM 19" Wheels?

[swifty]

^ Can we see some pics of this setup on your car? Are you lowered at all?

[Daxos]

I'm about to buy the MPSS tires in 265/35/19 M0 and 295/35/19 Star spec as my car is tuned and I'm struggling with traction in third.

I'm currently on the Continental 5P's in 255 and 275. Did anyone with a stock suspension (not lowered) make this change? Any negatives to getting the wider tires? Did the steering feel change?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Daxos

I'm about to buy the MPSS tires in 265/35/19 M0 and 295/35/19 Star spec as my car is tuned and I'm struggling with traction in third.

I'm currently on the Continental 5P's in 255 and 275. Did anyone with a stock suspension (not lowered) make this change? Any negatives to getting the wider tires? Did the steering feel change?

I made the change before installing the Eibachs. The steering feel did improve slightly with the wider fronts. I have also noticed that tire pressures and a good alignment are key to how well planted the car feels and how the road is communicated through the steering. I played quite a lot with pressures and I found that 32psi front and 31psi rear with the 265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 strikes right in the bullseye .

[Daxos]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I made the change before installing the Eibachs. The steering feel did improve slightly with the wider fronts. I have also noticed that tire pressures and a good alignment are key to how well planted the car feels and how the road is communicated through the steering. I played quite a lot with pressures and I found that 32psi front and 31psi rear with the 265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 strikes right in the bullseye .

Thank you for your reply. That's exactly what I needed to know

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I made the change before installing the Eibachs. The steering feel did improve slightly with the wider fronts. I have also noticed that tire pressures and a good alignment are key to how well planted the car feels and how the road is communicated through the steering. I played quite a lot with pressures and I found that 32psi front and 31psi rear with the 265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 strikes right in the bullseye .

when did you put the eibach's on? any pics?

debating between these or the more aggressive Swift R's

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

when did you put the eibach's on? any pics?

debating between these or the more aggressive Swift R's

Installed Eibachs in May in conjunctions with GC camber plates. Very happy with the setup.

Good point, I should have posted pics here too as it is pertinent to the thread. Here goes, 265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 PSS on Eibachs and no spacers:

[ssabripo]

damn, that looks good. I am worried Eibach's may not drop that much on the F80's, but the Swift R have been reviewed to be too stiff for my liking, so I'm on the fence which way to go.

You don't happen to have a before/after shot do you?

[ssabripo]

BTW, did we ever settle on which 295/35 has the widest thread contact?

looks like the Star Michelin ((104Y)) has the widest contact patch...is this correct?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

damn, that looks good.

Originally Posted by ssabripo

I am worried Eibach's may not drop that much on the F80's, but the Swift R have been reviewed to be too stiff for my liking, so I'm on the fence which way to go.

The Eibachs are only slightly stiffer than the OEM with more increase in rate in the rear, where it needed it most. In principle, you should be getting less visual "fender gap" on the F80 due to the shape of the F80 rear fenders. Front should practically be the same.

I also do not like the dual rate design of the Swift. I don't get why they didn't use the full travel of the spring to get the desired spring rate.

Originally Posted by ssabripo

You don't happen to have a before/after shot do you?

I do. Just need to find them.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

BTW, did we ever settle on which 295/35 has the widest thread contact?

looks like the Star Michelin ((104Y)) has the widest contact patch...is this correct?

I did not necessarily stop on which is the widest. The fact that the M5 295/35R19 is designed for a rear 10" wide wheel also played a big part.

Same for the 265/35R19(M0) from the AMG GT-S, not necessarily the widest, but it is designed for a front 9" wide wheel. Optimal designs for the application .

[danniexi]

word of advice to those thinking about running these tires 265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 MPSS: just do it. it's been an absolute revelation. the differences are substantial. you can even notice these changes on the street. i am absolutely in love with the car again. granted, i have these on wider wheels (19x9.5" 19x10.5"), but even so, the front end grip has vastly improved and the rear is definitely confidence inspiring. great work to those in this thread who have found the perfect winning combination.

[Rbezy]

Waiting on my shipment supposed to get both in 2 days.

I was able to get the MPSS 265/35/19 M0 from Costco, but they didn't have the MPSS 295/25/19 Star available so I got those from Tirerack. In all its costing me around $1500

I'm going to have Costco install all 4 tires, ill come back with a review in the next couple weeks.

[Pharmacist_]

Great thread. Quick question that I didn't readily see but may have missed. For the front on the 295 combo, would the * 265/35/19 be ok or is the M0 significantly better?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Pharmacist_

Great thread. Quick question that I didn't readily see but may have missed. For the front on the 295 combo, would the * 265/35/19 be ok or is the M0 significantly better?

The 265/35R19(*) is the rear tire of the M2 optimized around a 10" wide wheel, so it is not ideal. The (M0) remains the best option IMO.

[Pharmacist_]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The 265/35R19(*) is the rear tire of the M2 optimized around a 10" wide wheel, so it is not ideal. The (M0) remains the best option IMO.

Thank you!

[g2g8969]

Just installed these 265/35/19 m0 and 295/35/19*! I'm no racing pro but these are awesome. I'm not sure if it's because of the fronts or rears, or a combo of both but traction has been so much better. I rarely get the traction lights and less wheel spin now.

[VeloF1]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have been pondering on which Michelin Pilot Sport sizes to go with. I find that the F8X in stock form lacks grip and I would like to increase the contact patch width. I also would like to stick with the PSS since I like the tire a lot for DD and have had an excellent experience with it on my E92. It strikes the right balance from me between performance, durability, wet grip and comfort.

See the table below for the summary of my findings.
(F c.p. and R c.p. for Front and Rear contact patch width according to Tire Rack)
(R % dia and R % dia Front and Rear rolling diameter change in % according to Tire Rack)
(TR$ Price for the set before shipping and taxes according to Tire Rack)

Simply keeping the stock sizes but going with the standard XL tire instead of the F8X specific tire provides the best bang for the buck. It is the cheapest option, yet provides a 0.7" wider contact patch front and rear. This is the combo I had on my E92 and really loved it. Further, the rear generic 275 has thinner longitudinal grooves in the thread compared to the F8X specific 275, which translates to more rubber in contact with the road.

The 275/295 /30R19 combo provides the greatest increase in contact patch width (+1.7" front and +2.0" rear) for a reasonable increase in cost (+$120). The disadvantage is the quite smaller rolling radius (-1.5%/-2.3%). I am also concerned that the 275/30R19 is a rear specific tire with thin grooves and would not be the best in the rain for front tires.

The last option consist of moving the rear tires to the front wheels and fitting M5 rear tires in the rear. This option is the most costly when all 4 tires need to be replaced (+$308). However, it can be a relatively cheap upgrade when only replacing the rears. The rolling radius is also quite larger than stock (+2.3%/+1.9%). What is interesting with this setup is that the 295/35 rear is specifically designed to run on the 10" wide wheel of the M5.

I added another option to the table: 265-295/35R19. After having driven the 275-295/35R19 combo for a full season, I find the 295/35R19 M5 rear tire to be a perfect fit for the car with improved traction. However, I find the 275/35R19 rear not to be the best fit for the the front. The fact that it is designed as rear tire to be fitted on a 10" wide wheel makes not the best suited in the front on a 9" wide wheel. It is more prone to aquaplaning and tram-lining and loses a bit in sharpness. The bite is strong, but the response is a bit more sluggish where there is a noticeable delay before it takes a set. For those reasons, I will be likely going with a 265/35R19 M0 spec from the AMG GT-S. Since the M0 spec is designed as front tire to be mounted on a 9" wide wheel, it should be a very good fit on the front 437M wheels. With this setup, I will have PSS tires designed optimally for those front and rear positions and wheel widths. I am eager to try it out.

What would you guys and gal do?

EDIT May 2015

275(*)-295(*)/35R19 REVIEW:

OK, so I decided to go with the fifth option and finally made the switch to the 275-295/35 setup last week. I wanted to wait a little before posting a review because I wanted to ensure that the tires were broken in to share proper perspective.

I could not be happier . The car seems much more planted with the wider tires. There is much less wiggle from the rear under hard acceleration. Taking on-ramps at high speed (very high speed ), the car feels more stable with seemingly more grip to be had. The car is still very well balanced even with high slip angles and is very easy to position with the throttle. In low speed corners, the wider front tires bite with assertiveness yielding a sharp turn-in.

Steering feel and feedback is much improved and the steering has become much more alive, better communicating the pavement surface changes. The drawback is little more tramlining on the highway where trucks left big grooves in the asphalt.

Another drawback is that there is a perceptible longer delay before the car takes a set, probably due to the sidewalls of the wider tires ballooning more on the same wheel width.

The tires also improved the looks of the car too. I run a stock EDC suspension without spacers (I don't believe in changing the stock offset). The bigger and wider tires fill the wheel wells well.

Overall, it seems to me that this 275-295/35R19 setup on the OEM wheels is very well suited to the car .

Update June 2015:

Just found out about a non-negligible drawback to the 275-295/35R19 setup: aquaplaning .

I just drove back home from work in a heavy downpour, and the car aquaplaned much more than it used to on the stock 255-275/35R19 setup. I expected a little more floating, but not that much. The car now gets skittish running through very mild puddles.

Update March 2016:

I just discovered another drawback of the 275-295/35R19 combo: uneven wear on the front tire inner shoulder.

I pulled my summer wheels out of storage today and discovered that the inner shoulder of the 275/35R19 (OE rear tire) installed in the front was significantly worn down. I guess it will cord quite soon. Note that I am running a completely stock suspension with stock alignment.

I can only assume this comes from the extra width of the tread and/or stiffer sidewall.

EDIT May 2016

265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 REVIEW:

I just came back from 2 track days at LCMT in semi-dry semi-wet (including snow ) conditions. So I mostly lapped with the PSS on the car. This exhausted whatever life was remaining on my front 275/35R19 PSS (the original rears). Interestingly, they corded on the inside first. I had already observed the inner shoulder wearing faster. Maybe this comes from the fact that these are intended as rear tires and have a squarer contact patch. So I have decided to install new 265/35R19 M0 spec PSS in the front.

After a fair bit of research, I concluded that the 265/35R19(M0) is probably the best option to pair with the 295/35R19(*). I liked the M5's 295/35R19 tire because it was specifically designed as a rear tire to be mounted on a 10" wide wheel, so a perfect fit for the F8X. I really liked the additional grip and stability it provided. So I went on a quest to find the best PSS to mount on the front 9" wheels that would keep the front-to-rear diameter stagger as close to stock as possible when combine with the 295/35R19. There were no 275 PSS that fit that bill, so I looked at the 265. Of the 5 different PSS offerings in the 265/35R19 size, the AMG GT-S' (M0) was the only one designed as front tire for a 9" wide wheel, hence why I stopped my choice on it.

First observation from the 265 is the the longitudinal channels in the tread are much wider than the 275/35R19 BMW star spec I had up front. This should reduce the increased aquaplaning sensitivity I had with the 275. The tire is also quite meaty, filling the fenders well. First impression from the short drive from the shop to my house is that there is less feedback coming through the steering wheel compared to the 275, I however cannot recall how it felt with the OE 255 though. There is also much less tram-lining going on, which is a good thing.

Update September 2016:

Having run the 265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 PSS for the summer, I can attest it is the best combo I have tried thus far. The sensitivity to aqua-planning that experienced with the OE 275 in front is completely gone and there is much less tram-lining. The 265(M0) provide ample grip up front and the car remains quite neutral with only a slight hint of understeer at the limit (which is perfectly fine for a street setup). Due to the rounder contact patches of the 265(M0), there is a bit less steering feel than with the squarer OE 275, but having recently driven an 2016 M4 mounted on the stock tires, the steering on my car with the 265(M0) is a bit more alive. For those wanting to stick with the PSS, the 265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 is definitely the one I would recommend.


PICTURES:
275(*)-295(*)/35R19 without spacers
275(*)-295(*)/35R19 with 5mm rear spacers
265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 on Eibach springs without spacers

Thanks for the thorough work-up over the years. Does your opinion remain the same regarding the 265 (MO) and 295 (*)/ 19" setup on OEM wheels? The increase stager with more rubber on rear doesn't adversely effect the balance? I'm guessing no by your review. Just looking for any updates. Any concerns at all with freeway speeds with moderate rain? Other? Thanks again!

[VeloF1]

Originally Posted by Rbezy

Waiting on my shipment supposed to get both in 2 days.

I was able to get the MPSS 265/35/19 M0 from Costco, but they didn't have the MPSS 295/25/19 Star available so I got those from Tirerack. In all its costing me around $1500

I'm going to have Costco install all 4 tires, ill come back with a review in the next couple weeks.

How do you like this set up? Did you get a spirited test? Thanks!

[Rbezy]

Originally Posted by VeloF1

How do you like this set up? Did you get a spirited test? Thanks!

so far I'm loving it... no traction issues at all... I would definitely recommend it

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by VeloF1

Thanks for the thorough work-up over the years. Does your opinion remain the same regarding the 265 (MO) and 295 (*)/ 19" setup on OEM wheels? The increase stager with more rubber on rear doesn't adversely effect the balance? I'm guessing no by your review. Just looking for any updates. Any concerns at all with freeway speeds with moderate rain? Other? Thanks again!

Yes, I am still very satisfied with the 265(M0)-295(*)/35R19 PSS setup.

The answers to your queries are all in the OP or burried somewhere in the thread, so I'll summarize.

At sane speeds for the street, the car remains perfectly balanced with this setup. The 265 in front provide ample grip, more so than the OE 255. When pushed near the limit, it starts to understeer; which is in fact desirable for a street setup.

This setup only slightly increases the front-to-rear diameter stagger, so you theoretically get slightly less DSC intervention when accelerating. Which is perfectly fine with me.

The 265(M0) are excellent in the rain. Not much different than the OE 255 and significantly better than the OE 275 in the front. With the 275 in front, I would get aquaplaning with only moderate accumulations, so I had to reduce my speed a fair bit in downpoors. Not the case with the 265(M0), I just drove back from lunch in heavy rain today at ~75mph on the freeway with no issue at all.

The car feels so much better with this setup, I am not quite sure why BMW under-tired the F8X so much. I am sure they have a reason, I just don't see it.

[SO17]

I know the thread is about PSS but browsing through Tire Rack they now have the Continental Contact Sport 6 listed. The 295 35 19 tread width at 11.6" is even wider then the * 295 35 19 PSS. As my car came equipped with Conti's I've ordered a pair for the rear.

[jdjensen909]

Just installed the 265/35/19 and 295/35/19 MPSS set-up, way more grip its just what the car needed as I am Dinan tuned. Thanks...

Now looking at putting spacers on. I am lowered on Macht Schnell springs anyone try to 10mm spacers front and back yet? Would love to see some photos.