MotorTrend 2016 BMW M4 GTS—When Extreme Isn’t Extreme Enough? - Ignition Ep. 162

[MP]

I liked this review a lot. To me it highlights some of the stupidity of of the so called track-focused but street legal cars. In the end driving them on a road is painful and when taken to the track they are not as fast as you would have hoped.

But they do look great when detailed and parked in an opulent garage

Just be careful not to scratch this precious frozen paint when tracking this awsome machine. You might have to repaint half the car to make it pristine again

[cncmastr]

This video was hysterically funny. I loved how he poked fun at the front lip. I did cringe when he emptied his sleeve of water into the boot...err trunk.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

What price would make it special to you? If the ZCP package is worth $5500, then how much is the GTS package worth?

But the ZCP package isn't worth $5,500 . I'm just messing around

[Merlin_83]

Originally Posted by cntzl

In my opinion, just because it's a limited production car, doesn't mean it's worth the price. I think GTS is way overpriced considering the competition and its capabilities. I don't care if they make 700 or only 7 of these.

THIS !!!

And wow, what a slap in the face for BMW. I actually had high hopes the GTS would be 'King of the Hill' when compared to others like the Camaro and Mustang. Hard to argue those cars are 1/2 the price and faster...yikes!

And the whole being hard to drive in and around speed bumps, and bad roads means many owners will just have to beat the crap out of these when conducting normal daily driving operations....

I'm likely one of the older M car enthusiasts here, I was 19 when I saw my first M3 in 1987....and was forever transfixed with the box fenders, and overall coolness factor, no way I could've afforded one back then. When I got my 2012 M3 mid 2013...my gosh I was so impressed and still every single day I love driving my N/A V8...

I wish the GTS had been the 'category killer'...I do, but crap the others have caught up to what can now be done to cars to make them go fast and handle good, something back in 1987 for many (except BMW) was simply not possible.

Cheers,
Merlin

[sakson]

Way overpriced, especially compared to the base M4. Not worth it.

They can keep their orange wheels.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Merlin_83

THIS !!!

And wow, what a slap in the face for BMW. I actually had high hopes the GTS would be 'King of the Hill' when compared to others like the Camaro and Mustang. Hard to argue those cars are 1/2 the price and faster...yikes!

And the whole being hard to drive in and around speed bumps, and bad roads means many owners will just have to beat the crap out of these when conducting normal daily driving operations....

I'm likely one of the older M car enthusiasts here, I was 19 when I saw my first M3 in 1987....and was forever transfixed with the box fenders, and overall coolness factor, no way I could've afforded one back then. When I got my 2012 M3 mid 2013...my gosh I was so impressed and still every single day I love driving my N/A V8...

I wish the GTS had been the 'category killer'...I do, but crap the others have caught up to what can now be done to cars to make them go fast and handle good, something back in 1987 for many (except BMW) was simply not possible.

Cheers,
Merlin

I love the way people try to rewrite history. I am a diehard BMW fanatic (what this forum likes to derogatorily call a fanboy) and have owned 18 BMWs since I bought my first one new in 1977. The previous M cars were all great cars and they were used as a yardstick for other "performance cars" to follow. But that was a completely different yardstick. BMW has NEVER made the fastest cars or cheapest cars - NEVER. I just don't know why people are expecting the GTS to be something that BMW has never built. I just don't know why people are putting M cars on pedestals that they were never on when they were new.

[velociti]

I think he's a funny, knowledgeable dude, and has the potential to provide commentary in the same league as Chris Harris. That said, it's clear that MT's MO is to provide a more slapstick, dare I say American, take on car reviews. Subtlety, artfulness, and scathing sarcasm seem to be an exclusively English approach that no one else has managed to do well. For me, Chris Harris is still the best automotive journalist out there.

While I don't love the way in which his criticisms are presented, I think most of his points are difficult to argue with. And like others have mentioned, he was pretty glowing in his review of the M2. His talk of homologation (E30) and what not being the genesis of the M division is true, but certainly the M brand and cache was built on the back of the E36 and E46 template: an excellent road car with motorsports inspiration. There's no arguing that the E92 and F80/82 have crept more towards the road car end of things and away from the motorsports lineage. So, I appreciate that the new GTS is much more like the original E30, and presumably the E46 CSL and E92 GTS. But if there's any car in which the "M Spirit" is alive and well, the M2 has to be it, not some ultra-limited $134,000 monstrosity that's clearly geared at well-heeled collector-enthusiasts, rather than dudes who are going drive the hell out of the thing every day.

[kitesurfer]

GTS laptime = 1LE Camaro

thats a big fat mic drop for American Muscle.

[AM4ZING]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I love the way people try to rewrite history. I am a diehard BMW fanatic (what this forum likes to derogatorily call a fanboy) and have owned 18 BMWs since I bought my first one new in 1977. The previous M cars were all great cars and they were used as a yardstick for other "performance cars" to follow. But that was a completely different yardstick. BMW has NEVER made the fastest cars or cheapest cars - NEVER. I just don't know why people are expecting the GTS to be something that BMW has never built. I just don't know why people are putting M cars on pedestals that they were never on when they were new.

BMW put the GTS on the pedestal claiming it is the BEST track car they have ever built... The commercials make it seem like an actual race car..

But in the real world, it really doesnt stand out as anything special on the track besides for the vibrant colors

Therefore they have opened themselves to be compared to other track oriented cars and they havent surpassed them by any margin, WHILE CHARGING 150k PLUS

[Fahrvergnügen]

Round and round we go...

I don't think everyone was expecting the GTS to obliterate all cars priced below it and within its price range, but I think what we are seeing is that the GTS is not getting the rave reviews we all wanted which leads people to believe the GTS is a failure.

The competition has caught up and costs less, yes, but you don't hear these same type of remarks about the Gt3 / Gt4 because the Gt3 / Gt4 provide something other than just numbers, it's a unique overall experience among other things. I could be wrong but the GTS may not provide enough uniqueness to dissipate the hate from a performance perspective. It is also overpriced.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by velociti

I think he's a funny, knowledgeable dude, and has the potential to provide commentary in the same league as Chris Harris. That said, it's clear that MT's MO is to provide a more slapstick, dare I say American, take on car reviews. Subtlety, artfulness, and scathing sarcasm seem to be an exclusively English approach that no one else has managed to do well. For me, Chris Harris is still the best automotive journalist out there.

While I don't love the way in which his criticisms are presented, I think most of his points are difficult to argue with. And like others have mentioned, he was pretty glowing in his review of the M2. His talk of homologation (E30) and what not being the genesis of the M division is true, but certainly the M brand and cache was built on the back of the E36 and E46 template: an excellent road car with motorsports inspiration. There's no arguing that the E92 and F80/82 have crept more towards the road car end of things and away from the motorsports lineage. So, I appreciate that the new GTS is much more like the original E30, and presumably the E46 CSL and E92 GTS. But if there's any car in which the "M Spirit" is alive and well, the M2 has to be it, not some ultra-limited $134,000 monstrosity that's clearly geared at well-heeled collector-enthusiasts, rather than dudes who are going drive the hell out of the thing every day.

I think Tiff Needell is right up there with Chris. However, we don't see much from him anymore .

[Mingwan]

The GTS already lost the internet wars when BMW decided to price it the way they did. Even if it ended up being faster than the Camaro and the GT350R, the internet warriors would've just complained about the cost and proceeded to cling onto the cost argument's nutsack. It's really hard defending any premium priced car because there are always those guys that come in talking about how they can buy a foxbody mustang for two grand and make it faster than any lamborghini.

But I do think the GTS is a bit of a disappointment.

[JoeyBananas]

I thought the review was funny, lol. He liked the car, just pointed out its flaws, not sure why everyone hates the review

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

Round and round we go...

The competition has caught up and costs less, yes, but you don't hear these same type of remarks about the Gt3 / Gt4 because the Gt3 / Gt4 provide something other than just numbers, it's a unique overall experience among other things. I could be wrong but the GTS may not provide enough uniqueness to dissipate the hate from a performance perspective. It is also overpriced.

If we were talking about a 911 Carrera, ok it's an experience. But we're talking about stripped out track cars with a cage. The reason these things are built was primarily for track times, so if you're looking for other things the Carrera and the M4 are better cars suited for that.

Is the M4 GTS the best track car that BMW has built? Yes. That doesn't mean you should take that as it being able to run circles around everything and anything. The M4 GTS was to improve the M4 and it has done exactly that and in the process BMW was able to make a car that is as fast as the 991 GT3 on some tracks so what does that say about the GT3?

I'm not saying the GTS is perfect but it gets flack that could be applied to Porsche but doesn't. I'm sure a C7 Z06 is faster than the 991 GT3 RS but we won't hear how the GT3 can't convincingly outperform a car that is half its price.

My argument is solely focused on how cars like the GT3 and M4 GTS perform around a track - the purpose of these cars. If you're looking at other variables, this argument doesn't apply.

[tpipta]

Originally Posted by PNWM3

This whole GTS versus a Mustang or a Camaro is silly. It's like saying a Zenga suit is as good as what you can get at the Men's Wearhouse. Different price points and levels of quality for different shoppers. Just because it's about the same speed around the track doesn't mean anything.

I mean in terms of performance it means everything. Not a hater by any stretch and the car is special, but unless you're buying this car as investment in future resale values, buying it for any other reason seems pointless.

[VCP]

Absolutely false. I have tracked my E92's 2 F82 Modded M4's and My GTS. The GTS destroyed all my lap times including setting fastest time attack record at local track with only lowering to track setting and playing with aero on the track where some corners are over 200km/hr. Real world.

Originally Posted by tpipta

I mean in terms of performance it means everything. Not a hater by any stretch and the car is special, but unless you're buying this car as investment in future resale values, buying it for any other reason seems pointless.

[cvandenhaute]

I really think Camisa is one of the best reviewers out there, love the fact he does not makes prisoners even for the brands he worships and BMW is one of them.

One of the things where he is spot on, and I keep being infuriated by it, is the fact that even on the GTS, BMW cannot get the steering right (at least on track). Before someone throws a "but it is the new technology and it is the way the world is right now" I will argue that several manufacturers managed to make EPS right (Ford and Mazda for instance), BMW isn't one of them and that used to be one of the best thing about driving hard any BMW until the F Generation. My old sluggish 128i is no comparison in performance but I got TONS of feedback on track (or on open road) and I am saddened that no modern BMW can give me this, even the very attempting M2...

[avex8]

I LOL when people talk about how great the m4 gts is. It's a overpriced m4 with few cosmetic change and cost double the price. I rather spend that money on a brand new Gtr, it beats m4 gts in every spec and it's cheaper too.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by VCP

Absolutely false. I have tracked my E92's 2 F82 Modded M4's and My GTS. The GTS destroyed all my lap times including setting fastest time attack record at local track with only lowering to track setting and playing with aero on the track where some corners are over 200km/hr. Real world.

I think tpipta 's point was that you could go buy an stang or camaro and beat the GTS time as well as all of your other BMWs at half the price. No doubt the GTS is an improvement over a regular M4 (albeit not a $60k+ improvement) but BMW either could not make a performance car good enough to beat chevy / ford or they just said "f**k it, people will buy".

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

If we were talking about a 911 Carrera, ok it's an experience. But we're talking about stripped out track cars with a cage. The reason these things are built was primarily for track times, so if you're looking for other things the Carrera and the M4 are better cars suited for that.

Is the M4 GTS the best track car that BMW has built? Yes. That doesn't mean you should take that as it being able to run circles around everything and anything. The M4 GTS was to improve the M4 and it has done exactly that and in the process BMW was able to make a car that is as fast as the 991 GT3 on some tracks so what does that say about the GT3?

I'm not saying the GTS is perfect but it gets flack that could be applied to Porsche but doesn't. I'm sure a C7 Z06 is faster than the 991 GT3 RS but we won't hear how the GT3 can't convincingly outperform a car that is half its price.

My argument is solely focused on how cars like the GT3 and M4 GTS perform around a track - the purpose of these cars. If you're looking at other variables, this argument doesn't apply.

I don't fully agree. Yes, Porsche and BMW market their cars as track cars but at the end of the day customers also want an experience or to feel unique / special when driving these cars. Porsche makes cup cars and clubsport editions for those who only care for the track. Many people daily drive cars that are marketed as 'track cars' and yes they perform well enough on the track but successful 'track cars' also provide something else for the customer. That was the point I was trying to make.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Why not get som input and read what accual owners think of the car? I dont know but that might give some other feedback than motortrends.

I for once would never buy a trackday toy( thats the way I see my cars) if I was not developed on Nurburgring. I would never buy if I was not cage and 6 point belt from factory. (Yes I know I can fit after, still like the whole idé of Factory cage)
I think lapimes is fun and always will challenge my selfe to try to go faster, while doing so I need a car that is safe. But also can take a beating.

The MacLaren 570s is faster than my GTS, but not developed on Nurburgring and no cage. I would not buy that. Same in a camaro or them cars, its not for me even I kind of Love the track prepp z28 with them wide front tires. Its not about if a car Is cheep and go faster than more expencive cars. At least that how I see it. Sure I see the Mustang 350R as i cool car, but I would never buy as Its not developed on Nurburgring, and no cage. If I was to buy a car that was not For track I could see my selfe in camaro z28 or 350R.

I find my GTS to be not expencive For the Safety and development and overal performance the car deliver. Also I like the seldom seen in a streetcar 3 ways rebound/compression suspension and adjusteble front/rear aero. And free service for 3 year and god warranty.

But also the Safety thinking in the small details, the GTS is racecar marked with yellow paint on al nuts and bolts(under car and engine bay) from factory. Who do that if not entusiast like M in Garching. That way my bolt check go Quick and easy after every track session. You lift and see if any parts have got loss/or move.

I have not seen that in a street car like my PORSCHE GT4, then again I told my race shop to paint it For me For the reason of Safety and Quick possibility to check if bolts/nuts got lose or move. To me its these small thing that I very much like, it shows the intention of this car. Its build For track. Its developed at the most demanding and challanging tracks in the world. A place where you can simulate a cars lifetime in normal street driving in just 2 weeks of lapping this track. 2 week full speed here wear out parts like a lifetime do in normal street driving.

Only the small detail of the plate welded on to the cage of GTS who tell us what high quality steel is used in cage(crome molly steel) is details that I personaly love. Car build by entusiast For entusiast.

This GTS provide much more race car feel than my Porsche GT4. more mecanical gripp and aero grip, it ride track curbs almost like you do not feel it, GT4 is not that advanced chassie.

My GT4 Porsche is less of a car, it can not make use of its whole area of front tire, hence it very understeery from Factory.

M4 GTS is not, its better developed to go on track all day, no understeer, no oversteer. Not even in rain. Its very impressive. Rear wing in max aero setting nr. 3 tranforms the cars wet grip to superior, also front splitter. A racecar must go well in rain also and...wow I do that. PORSCHE GT4, not so well in rain.

If We put Camisa MT tester behind the steeringwheel in GTS at Nurburgring I am sure that would wipe that smile of his face in 1 second while he put that car to the test. Its al fun and games on street over them speedbumps, but not that much at this track. One mistake and you could get killed, that place is this cars natural habitat. Not speedbumps.
Just my 2 cents(Please dont kill me now, its just my saying about a car I happen to Love, and in the end its ok that others dont love it)
No, a normal M4 racecar stripper tuned all to hell and back, even it would be faster than my GTS, no It would no be For me. A GTS is seldom seen, 991 GT3 sure faster and overall better aero but to common on my home tracks.

[VCP]

This: "buying it for any other reason seems pointless."

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

I think tpipta 's point was that you could go buy an stang or camaro and beat the GTS time as well as all of your other BMWs at half the price. No doubt the GTS is an improvement over a regular M4 (albeit not a $60k+ improvement) but BMW either could not make a performance car good enough to beat chevy / ford or they just said "f**k it, people will buy".