MotorTrend 2016 BMW M4 GTS—When Extreme Isn’t Extreme Enough? - Ignition Ep. 162

[VCP]

We best leave the non buyers, non convinced to themselves. I sure do love seeing all the yellow and blue paint on fasteners showing the hand assembly done right. There are many of these type of special attentions that make up the GTS.

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Why not get som input and read what accual owners think of the car? I dont know but that might give some other feedback than motortrends.

I for once would never buy a trackday toy( thats the way I see my cars) if I was not developed on Nurburgring. I would never buy if I was not cage and 6 point belt from factory. (Yes I know I can fit after, still like the whole idé of Factory cage)
I think lapimes is fun and always will challenge my selfe to try to go faster, while doing so I need a car that is safe. But also can take a beating.

The MacLaren 570s is faster than my GTS, but not developed on Nurburgring and no cage. I would not buy that. Same in a camaro or them cars, its not for me even I kind of Love the track prepp z28 with them wide front tires. Its not about if a car Is cheep and go faster than more expencive cars. At least that how I see it. Sure I see the Mustang 350R as i cool car, but I would never buy as Its not developed on Nurburgring, and no cage. If I was to buy a car that was not For track I could see my selfe in camaro z28 or 350R.

I find my GTS to be not expencive For the Safety and development and overal performance the car deliver. Also I like the seldom seen in a streetcar 3 ways rebound/compression suspension and adjusteble front/rear aero. And free service for 3 year and god warranty.

But also the Safety thinking in the small details, the GTS is racecar marked with yellow paint on al nuts and bolts(under car and engine bay) from factory. Who do that if not entusiast like M in Garching. That way my bolt check go Quick and easy after every track session. You lift and see if any parts have got loss/or move.

I have not seen that in a street car like my PORSCHE GT4, then again I told my race shop to paint it For me For the reason of Safety and Quick possibility to check if bolts/nuts got lose or move. To me its these small thing that I very much like, it shows the intention of this car. Its build For track. Its developed at the most demanding and challanging tracks in the world. A place where you can simulate a cars lifetime in normal street driving in just 2 weeks of lapping this track. 2 week full speed here wear out parts like a lifetime do in normal street driving.

Only the small detail of the plate welded on to the cage of GTS who tell us what high quality steel is used in cage(crome molly steel) is details that I personaly love. Car build by entusiast For entusiast.

This GTS provide much more race car feel than my Porsche GT4. more mecanical gripp and aero grip, it ride track curbs almost like you do not feel it, GT4 is not that advanced chassie.

My GT4 Porsche is less of a car, it can not make use of its whole area of front tire, hence it very understeery from Factory.

M4 GTS is not, its better developed to go on track all day, no understeer, no oversteer. Not even in rain. Its very impressive. Rear wing in max aero setting nr. 3 tranforms the cars wet grip to superior, also front splitter. A racecar must go well in rain also and...wow I do that. PORSCHE GT4, not so well in rain.

If We put Camisa MT tester behind the steeringwheel in GTS at Nurburgring I am sure that would wipe that smile of his face in 1 second while he put that car to the test. Its al fun and games on street over them speedbumps, but not that much at this track. One mistake and you could get killed, that place is this cars natural habitat. Not speedbumps.
Just my 2 cents(Please dont kill me now, its just my saying about a car I happen to Love, and in the end its ok that others dont love it)
No, a normal M4 racecar stripper tuned all to hell and back, even it would be faster than my GTS, no It would no be For me. A GTS is seldom seen, 991 GT3 sure faster and overall better aero but to common on my home tracks.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Why not get som input and read what accual owners think of the car? I dont know but that might give some other feedback than motortrends.

I for once would never buy a trackday toy( thats the way I see my cars) if I was not developed on Nurburgring. I would never buy if I was not cage and 6 point belt from factory. (Yes I know I can fit after, still like the whole idé of Factory cage)
I think lapimes is fun and always will challenge my selfe to try to go faster, while doing so I need a car that is safe. But also can take a beating.

The MacLaren 570s is faster than my GTS, but not developed on Nurburgring and no cage. I would not buy that. Same in a camaro or them cars, its not for me even I kind of Love the track prepp z28 with them wide front tires. Its not about if a car Is cheep and go faster than more expencive cars. At least that how I see it. Sure I see the Mustang 350R as i cool car, but I would never buy as Its not developed on Nurburgring, and no cage. If I was to buy a car that was not For track I could see my selfe in camaro z28 or 350R.

I find my GTS to be not expencive For the Safety and development and overal performance the car deliver. Also I like the seldom seen in a streetcar 3 ways rebound/compression suspension and adjusteble front/rear aero. And free service for 3 year and god warranty.

But also the Safety thinking in the small details, the GTS is racecar marked with yellow paint on al nuts and bolts(under car and engine bay) from factory. Who do that if not entusiast like M in Garching. That way my bolt check go Quick and easy after every track session. You lift and see if any parts have got loss/or move.

I have not seen that in a street car like my PORSCHE GT4, then again I told my race shop to paint it For me For the reason of Safety and Quick possibility to check if bolts/nuts got lose or move. To me its these small thing that I very much like, it shows the intention of this car. Its build For track. Its developed at the most demanding and challanging tracks in the world. A place where you can simulate a cars lifetime in normal street driving in just 2 weeks of lapping this track. 2 week full speed here wear out parts like a lifetime do in normal street driving.

Only the small detail of the plate welded on to the cage of GTS who tell us what high quality steel is used in cage(crome molly steel) is details that I personaly love. Car build by entusiast For entusiast.

This GTS provide much more race car feel than my Porsche GT4. more mecanical gripp and aero grip, it ride track curbs almost like you do not feel it, GT4 is not that advanced chassie.

My GT4 Porsche is less of a car, it can not make use of its whole area of front tire, hence it very understeery from Factory.

M4 GTS is not, its better developed to go on track all day, no understeer, no oversteer. Not even in rain. Its very impressive. Rear wing in max aero setting nr. 3 tranforms the cars wet grip to superior, also front splitter. A racecar must go well in rain also and...wow I do that. PORSCHE GT4, not so well in rain.

If We put Camisa MT tester behind the steeringwheel in GTS at Nurburgring I am sure that would wipe that smile of his face in 1 second while he put that car to the test. Its al fun and games on street over them speedbumps, but not that much at this track. One mistake and you could get killed, that place is this cars natural habitat. Not speedbumps.
Just my 2 cents(Please dont kill me now, its just my saying about a car I happen to Love, and in the end its ok that others dont love it)
No, a normal M4 racecar stripper tuned all to hell and back, even it would be faster than my GTS, no It would no be For me. A GTS is seldom seen, 991 GT3 sure faster and overall better aero but to common on my home tracks.

To sum all of this up, he likes things developed on the Nurburgring and yellow paint.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by VCP

This: "buying it for any other reason seems pointless."

No, let's get real here. People bought this car to make a profit or to add it to some collection, speaking in general terms (you might be the exception). The consensus from professional (and objective) reviewers is not that spectacular for the car and many that other cars are better.

[Signature Wheel BMW]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

I saw this episode couple week ago during my free month with Motortrend on demand. It hard to take this guy seriously when he spend half of the time complaining about the GTS's ride over speed bump. Seem like there is a lot of hate at BMW from American magazines I'm wondering if BMW cut publicity budget at some point. For a fair review I watch British reviewer. American review just try to praise American car makers.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I still think something is off with this particular GTS.

Only 2 seconds faster than the base M4 does not add up around MRLS. That time difference can almost be entirely attributed to the PSC2 over the PSS. Further, the acceleration times don't really add up considering the extra 68hp and gripper tires over the base M4.

BimmerMat135 has a point. Wing is upside down, so he's getting lift in the rear. Otherwise it could be quicker.


I thought the M4 GTS was faster than the Mustang GT350R around the Ring at least. But to his point, you could get other cars for money if you really care about lap time. Example: the last Viper ACR is about 26 sec faster than an M4 GTS on the Ring (7:01), same price range. Like the M4 GTS, the price of the Viper ACR will also appreciate as it's the last hurrah for Viper before the brand is killed forever. The only difference is your life insurance coverage might be voided if you buy a Viper ACR, it will kill you. And you'll have to wear a big cowboy hat if you drive a Viper.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Oh, dont buy in to that ESP thing. Its only if you go at it while cold cup tires that thing flash( yes on street where Camise kind of like to drive its hard to warm them cups up to grippy temp)

But where I drive, at track that is, well this car is so grippy you can not even spinn the tires on track even out of hairpin bends!(if intention is to put in a laptime thats is, sure you can drift it I you like, but go For laptime driving and it will gripp and not spin tire) Thats how well it gripp.
On warm cup tires that is. Sure a front engine 500+ HP/600+ Nm rear driven car will instantly spinn rears on cold cup tires. But belive me, you will not on warm tire. The way Camise drive jumping over speedbumps, well I am sorry it well not get grippy.

That other part he do on track, well its overheating tire and that is not the best For tire performance. Cup tires do best in the range of 70-90 degrees, that optimum, Camise is to keen on TV , hence he did not even know what temp he got. Also on track I am sure he is not sweet spot tire pressure. He is more in to fun TV. German sport auto know how to launch a GTS, motortrend not.
Track mode ESC is not at al bad interferance in this car.

[VCP]

I am as real as it gets. I did not buy this with any hope of profit. Leave paid reviewers out of this and I see real owners who have tracked the GTS say very different opinions to them. When yours arrives you tell us.

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

No, let's get real here. People bought this car to make a profit or to add it to some collection, speaking in general terms (you might be the exception). The consensus from professional (and objective) reviewers is not that spectacular for the car and many that other cars are better.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

The thing with motortrend is they also did drive m4 GTS in figure 8 lap in high street setting on suspension, well thats like to ask a m4 GTS to do bad bad. Who do that? Then again is a special car, it will not do well out of the Box due to its to much to know. Then again thats the part I like, its special. And al know a low down tracksetting on GTS do better in a figure 8 lap vs high street mode.
It come with a special track book instruktion, info on all aero and suspension settings and much more. Camise would not know, apparently not, if so they would not drive figure 8 in high street mode its al in print that was the setting they drive

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Thanks For that grown up answer, even I did say its al ok others do not need to like the car I like. Thanks

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

To sum all of this up, he likes things developed on the Nurburgring and yellow paint.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by VCP

I am as real as it gets. I did not buy this with any hope of profit. Leave paid reviewers out of this and I see real owners who have tracked the GTS say very different opinions to them. When yours arrives you tell us.

For now, I will trust the professional reviewers over someone who just paid $150k - seems like a conflict of interest. It's funny how the only praise it gets is from owners.

Also, don't want one, never wanted one. I saw it at the Welt a few months ago, lined up with the previous special m3 models and was not impressed with how it looks and now I am not impressed with the performance. For me, I just put a deposit down on the 991.2 GT3 so I will be content until then with my 1M .

[VCP]

So what exactly are you doing here? Regurgitating some reviewers thoughts? No conflict of interest at all. I told you money had nothing to do with my purchase. You go and do what you like and take your unsubstantiated(as you have no experience with GTS) claims with you. I promise I won't go on any Pcar forum to spew garbage your way.

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

For now, I will trust the professional reviewers over someone who just paid $150k - seems like a conflict of interest. It's funny how the only praise it gets is from owners.

Also, don't want one, never wanted one. I saw it at the Welt a few months ago, lined up with the previous special m3 models and was not impressed with how it looks and now I am not impressed with the performance. For me, I just put a deposit down on the 991.2 GT3 so I will be content until then with my 1M .

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by VCP

So what exactly are you doing here? Regurgitating some reviewers thoughts? No conflict of interest at all. I told you money had nothing to do with my purchase. You go and do what you like and take your unsubstantiated(as you have no experience with GTS) claims with you. I promise I won't go on any Pcar forum to spew garbage your way.

Are you telling me to leave an internet forum? haha

You accuse me of regurgitating reviewers' thoughts and then go on to tell me all of my claims are unsubstantiated... wouldn't they be substantiated by the review? Should I only comment on cars that I have extensive experience with..? I don't get your point.

You sound very butthurt.

[VCP]

Not butthurt at all. I do take offense to some of your remarks due to pride of ownership and knowing the truth. All good.

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

Are you telling me to leave an internet forum? haha

You accuse me of regurgitating reviewers' thoughts and then go on to tell me all of my claims are unsubstantiated... wouldn't they be substantiated by the review? Should I only comment on cars that I have extensive experience with..? I don't get your point.

You sound very butthurt.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by avex8

I LOL when people talk about how great the m4 gts is. It's a overpriced m4 with few cosmetic change and cost double the price. I rather spend that money on a brand new Gtr, it beats m4 gts in every spec and it's cheaper too.

Then go buy a GTR .....

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by VCP

Not butthurt at all. I do take offense to some of your remarks due to pride of ownership and knowing the truth. All good.

Don't take the internet personal, it will (has) get the best of you

[Captain Unknown GT4]

To me anyway, this car is as special and god as my M3 CSL was. I also got a 991 gen 2 GT3 with a manual coming. That will be a bit cool I think. May I ask why did you not buy the GTS at least to flip it and make some dollars to put in at that gt3 of yours? That might not been a bad ide. Still I dont buy to flip, I drive but I am ok what ever people do.

A flipper dont do this I guess. I drive my car, so One should not think al have the same intentions. Some might flip some drive, whatever. Still some day all cars sell.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

Are you telling me to leave an internet forum? haha

You accuse me of regurgitating reviewers' thoughts and then go on to tell me all of my claims are unsubstantiated... wouldn't they be substantiated by the review? Should I only comment on cars that I have extensive experience with..? I don't get your point.

You sound very butthurt.

So you would rather take the opinion of someone who drove the car for a few hours than someone who lives with and owns one? The owners opinions are biased because they need to justify the money they spent? Give us a break!!!

[VCP]

I understand that mindset. I am someone who will say to someones face what I would say over the net. So it is somewhat personal. Hope you understand.

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

Don't take the internet personal, it will (has) get the best of you

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Haha, I would rather listen to real owners, than some big production Chanel who do big and and al they can to sell you motortrend in demand in every scene I see.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

To me anyway, this car is as special and god as my M3 CSL was. I also got a 991 gen 2 GT3 with a manual coming. That will be a bit cool I think. May I ask why did you not buy the GTS at least to flip it and make some dollars to put in at that gt3 of yours? That might not been a bad ide. Still I dont buy to flip, I drive but I am ok what ever people do.

A flipper dont do this I guess. I drive my car, so One should not think al have the same intentions. Some might flip some drive, whatever. Still some day all cars sell.

Good point, unfortunately I am relatively young (mid-20s) and do not have the rapport with BMW / neither did I have the time to scout around for one at MSRP this year. Even if I could, I probably wouldn't try to flip because I am just too risk averse to the idea. Even now, we still don't know what BMW plans for the M4 in terms of special models and such which may or may not affect value. Instead, my plan is to drive the 1M which holds its value better than average until I take delivery of the Gt3.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

So you would rather take the opinion of someone who drove the car for a few hours than someone who lives with and owns one? The owners opinions are biased because they need to justify the money they spent? Give us a break!!!

It is not just someone who drives the car for a few hours. This is their profession and they are one of the few types of people that get to try out many different types of cars in a short time period... I mean, do I have to explain to you the value or automotive journalism?

Having an owner's opinion is great and you can probably learn things a journalist could not in his half day review but owners have a big conflict of interest. When I had my base M4 I thought it was the greatest car for awhile... it was only after I sold it that I became open minded to its negative points.

At the end of the day, would I buy a house by having its owners tell me about it or hire an inspector?

[Captain Unknown GT4]

What I find very interesting is how some totaly dont pay any attention to real owners that accually use and track these cars. On other forums One might get some god feedback while giving out owners feedback that is real. Hm, kind of strange.
Yes, that yellow paint is Life i importent and are on al racecars, and also I like them smal details. I as some know is a regular driving Nurburgring and also you driven it. We know that that is the last track in the world you would want a bolt to got lose, hence to lose a toe bar here in the speeds One carry could get us killed. So why make fun about that yellow paint, I dont understand this guy.

Things get lose riding these curbs and this track as it a fast track seen no where else, Safety is importent. Hence Love that M Made my car yellow For fast and easy bolt inspektion prior to every trackday run. If on the smal mickey mouse track no high speed, I would not worry to drop a toe bar on track, I would not die.

Originally Posted by VCP

We best leave the non buyers, non convinced to themselves. I sure do love seeing all the yellow and blue paint on fasteners showing the hand assembly done right. There are many of these type of special attentions that make up the GTS.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Ok, but then forget the inspektors at motortrend. Wake up, the whole world except camisa is might impressed with GTS. And they all get GTS to accelerate as fast 0-200kmh as a 991 GT3, and more or less lap as fast on track. That in a GTS thats 134kg more porky that 991 GT3. Only poor performance on GTS is motortrend. Then again I dont care what them mag guys lap or accelerate, I only care how I and car conect, or how fast we lap.

Then again I rate German sport auto much higer than motortrend if you ask. They lap a M4 GTS 0.4sec slower than a 134kg lighter 991 GT3 in 2.6 km track, same day, same driver(driver who recently was among class winner in Porsche GT4 clubsport class in this year 24h on Nurburgring)

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

It is not just someone who drives the car for a few hours. This is their profession and they are one of the few types of people that get to try out many different types of cars in a short time period... I mean, do I have to explain to you the value or automotive journalism?

Having an owner's opinion is great and you can probably learn things a journalist could not in his half day review but owners have a big conflict of interest. When I had my base M4 I thought it was the greatest car for awhile... it was only after I sold it that I became open minded to its negative points.

At the end of the day, would I buy a house by having its owners tell me about it or hire an inspector?