07-04-2012, 05:49 PM | #111 |
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07-04-2012, 06:29 PM | #112 |
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In so many words as a 25 year driver of BMW's (purchased my first BMW in 1987 and been driving M3s for the past 8 years) let me say this...
A) No need to get so excited at the stage of this tease ... and B) Be assured that the next generation of M3's will be better and stronger then the previous one. Meanwhile let's just wait for all facts to be published. Remember BMW and ///M Division is spending Millions on Research and Development so that we the end user can enjoy a great Engineering Masterpiece.
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Life will take us to some interesting places, fortunately The ///M3 will too with a many of us know this very well, now my C6.3 AMG with 487 HP does it too ---> Click here for some good stuff I found |
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07-04-2012, 07:09 PM | #113 | |
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07-04-2012, 08:52 PM | #114 | |
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Cheers, e46e92
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. |
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07-04-2012, 08:56 PM | #115 | |
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If you compromise on the things that makes your company and product unique, eventually, that catches up with you. Cheers, e46e92
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. |
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07-04-2012, 09:16 PM | #116 | |
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There were so many things that made BMW different, and now they just do what everyone else does. Jesus......like watching a sports dynasty fall. Whatever, no one cares. Tradition, respect, legacies.......they are stories of the past. Now it's all about money. No matter what, money, money, money. It's why people don't spend their entire careers at one company anymore......and the world can't figure out why people don't seem to give a crap about each other or the companies they work for Cheers, e46e92
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. |
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07-04-2012, 09:20 PM | #117 | |
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Cheers, e46e92
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. |
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07-04-2012, 09:32 PM | #118 | |
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Back to m3/m4 discussion now....
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07-04-2012, 11:44 PM | #119 |
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when you spend 60K+ for a car, i don't think saving a few hundred dollars in gas is going to be your biggest concern.
smh at "fuel efficiency"
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07-05-2012, 12:03 AM | #120 | |
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There is a noticeable lag on both N54 and N55 when comparing to the S65. Doesn't make them bad engines, just turbo vs NA. This is what people are concerned about when moving to turbo for the next M series. The directness of the throttle-->power is amazing on the current S65, and would take some technological gadgetry to match with a turbo application....which it seems BMW is working on, I'm sure they're aware. Electric turbo is an interesting concept
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07-05-2012, 01:11 AM | #121 |
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Well, I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but I don't know of any n54 engine failures due to Vishnu's tune. Please feel free to elaborate on your vast knowledge of engine failures prior to 100k excluding the idiots who money shift and over rev the engine.
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07-05-2012, 01:37 AM | #122 | |
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Re-inforcing the block, add an bigger turbo system and install an newer valvetronic isnīt that difference what I quote "heavily redesigned". Installing the eTurbo to generate an N/A feeling is an not M worthy aproach, if the N/A feeling come only from the eTurbo and an clever electronic and not from great and innovative turbo design like the S63Tü ... and has nothing to do with the great engine development of BMW M until now. For me an M needs an great engine by great development and not an AG mass production engine on which electronics made him feel like an great engine. Being is not the same as just feeling !!! Greets Uli_HH |
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07-05-2012, 01:57 AM | #123 | |
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The key debate here is if BMW will in the near term produce a 3.0 liter engine with either 450 or 500 hp. My view, stated in multiple post above is very unlikely for the 450 level and pretty well impossible for the 500 for at least a couple of generations. Not impossible technically but impossible from an OEMs PRACTICAL perspective! The specifics of the dynos of the 1M are not at all the key issue. The key issue here is also not the new M3's engine, head, valvetrain and internals. All of those probably are ALREADY good for a MODDED 500 hp. Again the issues and rationale for my conclusion are: 1. This is an OEM we are talking about not a modder. It makes a world of difference. 2. All of the external and non turbo systems of the engine are the ones that an OEM will demand and engineer to be significantly upgraded to handle the higher power, heat levels and lubrication issues. These upgrades are costly. An engine is a complex system it just isn't as simple as the modder approach with modded software and more boost and "yer good to go". 3. BMW is on an important multi-year portfolio simplification with a plan to save costs and increase profits through massive re-use of common components and systems including engines across a huge range of models. Curiously enough this point could be used to argue for the 3.0 liter engine and against a 3.0 liter engine at the same time. 4. The next M3 and M4 are unlikely to have specific power outputs (hp/l) that exceed mature high end FI cars like the Porsche Turbo and McLaren MP4-12C. Please re-read this. It is not about what is or is not possible from a modding nor technical perspective. It is about what this large OEM can do while VERY meticulously managing it hugely important cost reduction program with OEM levels of product integrity and reliability. I think I've said everything I need to support my case at least twice. Feel free to disagree but in my opinion you have not made a strong case.
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07-05-2012, 02:06 AM | #124 |
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OK. You sir need to go drive an M3, say especially with the M-DCT and for kicks adjust the throttle to sport mode (or whatever they call it...). Lastly drive it on a track with plenty of opportunity for quick and wide throttle swings. This car has throttle response that makes the n55 feel like it has a huge single laggy turbo.
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07-05-2012, 05:32 AM | #125 | |
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100% agree with this statement. I hate how people say the N54/N55 has no lag. It has horrible lag. I can't say I noticed it as much, until driving a E46 and E92 M3. This is also why I'm worried about a new turbo M3 |
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07-05-2012, 09:01 AM | #126 |
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I saw this car covered with a tarp on May 21st when I visited the BMW facilities. It's right up front when you enter the museum. There was a man in a suit(30ish) guarding it so no one would take a peak under the tarp. I spoke with him a little and asked what it was, he wouldn't say. I then said, "it's the new M3 isn't it"? He just smiled and said he couldn't say anything. He said they were doing a private showing that evening and the official release would be in 2 - 3 months. I'm thinking it'll be released/announced around the Olympics since it's only 3 weeks away. They had the rim showing when I was there too. I was almost positive it was the M3 with that rim, and also the 275 tire. But, as someone mentioned it could be the F32, so who knows. I'm hoping it'll be the new M3. After I did the museum tour and I stopped and talked with him some more, but he wouldn't say anything, only smile after I mentioned the M3.... ???
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07-05-2012, 09:21 AM | #127 | |
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I dont see what you didnt like about having full 300lbs of torque at 1200rpm. Its not m3 power but it just wasnt entirely an accurate statement from you. You didnt specify anything about an n55 335 that you drove as a track car such as you use your m3.
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07-05-2012, 09:33 AM | #128 | |
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One important question as you are one who see it in real ... according to all spypic we have seen, the F32 4er and the F82 M4 would get an greenhouse in fastback style ... would you say the back of the car under the tarp has this style or was it more an limo greenhouse like the F30 ... if it was the second alternative than it could be really the F80 M3. One in an other forum quotes that it was no 2 on the strip, but an Z ... so there was written FIZ - standing for BMW Group Forschungs- und InnovationsZentrum - instead of F82. |
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07-05-2012, 09:54 AM | #129 |
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There's no way the F80 M3 will be unveiled in 2 or 3 months, let alone the F82. So assumed that info is correct we're likely looking at an E92 M3 edition (CSL?).
Best regards, south
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07-05-2012, 10:09 AM | #130 | |
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An with your statement about 300lbs of torque ar 1200 rpm you shows that you donīt understand the HDZ (Hochdrehzahl) principle ... where the engine revs so fast that it doesnīt need so much torque on low rpm like an standard engine like the N54/55 ... lock at the Formular 1 and how this engines work. you have driven the M3 as manual, but as swamp2 says the full advantage of HDZ you get only with an M-DCT car ... put the car in D5 (to avoid driver influence!) mode and press the "pedal to the metal" and you would see what M3-Drivers mean when they talk about trottle responce! Hope you understand now why the M3-Fans and-Drivers are affraid of an M engine with the trottle resonce of an 335i. Last edited by Uli_HH; 07-05-2012 at 10:21 AM.. |
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07-05-2012, 10:19 AM | #131 |
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You are totally right this chance is near zero (F80M3) ... BUT there is still an very (very) little possibility for an really big surprice ... BMW has strong links with the london olympics and this year is the 40-birthday of the M-GmbH - both are special and unique events which never come back in this combination ... what an great possibility to present an great Sportscar with Myth and Tradition.
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07-05-2012, 10:22 AM | #132 | |
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Best regards, south
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