MDM euro Coding

[dmnc02]

Originally Posted by HDDMark

Here's the problem. In E-SYS the ncd file for the DSC module is trimmed but using the NcdCAFD tool it's NOT trimmed (see attached screenshots).

If you use E-Sys Launcher, the CAFD should not appear trimmed in E-Sys.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by dmnc02

I know I am partly quoting myself above, but I have really been wondering about this all along. So, after getting a good feel for Euro MDM as normally coded for a couple of months, I tried last weekend changing C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket back to the US VO values (leaving the other six non-calculated functions mentioned by shawnsheridan in post #4 to their ECE VO values). This "hybrid" setting did not make MDM any more restrictive and did not generate any fault codes, leading me to believe that C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket are really meant to identify the geographical hardware variant, while the other functions set the mode of operation of MDM.

I am keeping my MDM set this way until I detect any downside.

But if C_Laenderkennung is described as "control country-specific characteristics, for example MDM", wouldn't you want that set to ECE? I can see your point with CTpmsMarket as it being set back to US, but do those two go hand in hand so if you set one as US you have to do the other or else you'll get a fault code?

[dmnc02]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

But if C_Laenderkennung is described as "control country-specific characteristics, for example MDM", wouldn't you want that set to ECE? I can see your point with CTpmsMarket as it being set back to US, but do those two go hand in hand so if you set one as US you have to do the other or else you'll get a fault code?

I think it all depends on whether you interpret the "country-specific characteristics" as referring to the hardware differences between US and ECE cars or to the differences in the desired operation of MDM. I believe that the other parameters set the operation of MDM and C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket identify hardware differences. MDM set this way feels right to me, but I have not tested it on a track, which is why it would be interesting to hear from somebody else with more track time and better driving skills than mine.

As for faults, I have checked the fault memory with Rheingold and this setting generates no faults.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by dmnc02

I think it all depends on whether you interpret the "country-specific characteristics" as referring to the hardware differences between US and ECE cars or to the differences in the desired operation of MDM. I believe that the other parameters set the operation of MDM and C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket identify hardware differences. MDM set this way feels right to me, but I have not tested it on a track, which is why it would be interesting to hear from somebody else with more track time and better driving skills than mine.

As for faults, I have checked the fault memory with Rheingold and this setting generates no faults.

Would you think it's worth testing setting CTpmsMarket = US and C_Laenderkennung = ECE?

Not sure if it would make a difference, but thinking if both of those are related to hardware maybe setting them to conflicting settings might tell you something.

[dmnc02]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Would you think it's worth testing setting CTpmsMarket = US and C_Laenderkennung = ECE?

Not sure if it would make a difference, but thinking if both of those are related to hardware maybe setting them to conflicting settings might tell you something.

I will give it a try. The only settings I have tested so far are both parameters set to ECE/EU or both parameters set to US.

[aboulfad]

I also kept those two parameters set to their default values, US. Can confirm there are no faults in ISTA/D post clearing the fault memory, and it's been weeks that I coded it. But I can not confirm 100% that the car responds differently or the same as those that changed those two parameters to ECE.

But I thought it was less restrictive, and yesterday I stomped the throttle in EuroMDM and the DSC indicator light flashed in the cluster. Maybe I was being too aggressive and there's still some intervention!

[dmnc02]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I also kept those two parameters set to their default values, US. Can confirm there are no faults in ISTA/D post clearing the fault memory, and it's been weeks that I coded it. But I can not confirm 100% that the car responds differently or the same as those that changed those two parameters to ECE.

But I thought it was less restrictive, and yesterday I stomped the throttle in EuroMDM and the DSC indicator light flashed in the cluster. Maybe I was being too aggressive and there's still some intervention!

There is definitely still intervention: it is not DSC off. And I also agree that the differences between setting the two parameters to ECE/EU and setting them to US is subtle, unlike changing the remaining six parameters, which make a huge difference. That is why I stayed with the two parameters set to ECE/EU for a couple of months before trying to change them.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by dmnc02

I will give it a try. The only settings I have tested so far are both parameters set to ECE/EU or both parameters set to US.

If it's any help, I just looked the part numbers for TPMS using BMW's electronic online parts catalog for US and ECE cars. They turn out to be exactly the same. Part Number 36 10 6 856 209

Here are the screen shots:

Part # for US M4



Part # for ECE M4


So does it really make a difference what CTpmsMarket is set as?

[dmnc02]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

If it's any help, I just looked the part numbers for TPMS using BMW's electronic online parts catalog for US and ECE cars. They turn out to be exactly the same. Part Number 36 10 6 856 209

It could well be that CTpmsMarket makes no difference on the F8x: as mentioned, I have not tried changing that parameter alone and since no faults are generated with CTpmsMarket set either way (as mentioned in post #74), I suspect this is indeed the case.

[dmnc02]

For what is worth, here is one more thing I just thought of checking.

Somebody had sent me the FA for a F10 M5 ZCP some time ago asking about the Euro LED settings, so I just used that FA to compare the Euro and US DSC VO values for that car. The CAFD is different from the one on the F8x, but it also has C_Laenderkennung. On that car, C_Laenderkennung was still set to ECE/EU or US, depending on the country variant.

Now, I got to try the M3, M4 and M5 back to back on the track at the M Driving School and felt that MDM was much less restrictive on the M5 (we were asked to keep MDM on all the time), so I asked one of the instructors about it and he confirmed that MDM on the M5 "felt just right", unlike that on the M3/M4 (they do not mess up with coding, so all the MDMs were the US ones).

I also doubt that BMW would make MDM more restrictive on a ZCP car, even one meant for the US market.

Edit: It turns out that there is actually still a difference between the US and ECE DSC VO values for the F10 M5 ZCP: it appears that the coding files I had been sent had already been modified. The correct comparison between VO values is as follows:

US:
C_Laenderkennung = US
C_Funktion_PostCrash_aktiv_1 = PCIB_aktiviert
C_GMR_Uebersteuer_0_c = F10M5US
C_GMR_Uebersteuer_1_2_c = F10M5US


ECE:
C_Laenderkennung = initwert
C_Funktion_PostCrash_aktiv_1 = PCIB_deaktiviert
C_GMR_Uebersteuer_0_c = F10M5
C_GMR_Uebersteuer_1_2_c = F10M5

Thanks to @limeypride for prompting me to double-check this.

[HDDMark]

Originally Posted by dmnc02

If you use E-Sys Launcher, the CAFD should not appear trimmed in E-Sys.

That's why this is strange because none of my other ncd files are trimmed, just the ncd file for the DSC module. I did recently update to the latest E-SYS Launcher Premium and then went back to a slightly earlier version and back again.

I would like to understand better the process that is going on between the launcher, E-SYS, and the PsdZData files. I just started coding when I got the car recently and the coding part is easy but I would like to understand what's going on "under the hood". If I knew that I would probably be able to figure this thing out on my own.

[dmnc02]

Originally Posted by HDDMark

That's why this is strange because none of my other ncd files are trimmed, just the ncd file for the DSC module. I did recently update to the latest E-SYS Launcher Premium and then went back to a slightly earlier version and back again.

I would like to understand better the process that is going on between the launcher, E-SYS, and the PsdZData files. I just started coding when I got the car recently and the coding part is easy but I would like to understand what's going on "under the hood". If I knew that I would probably be able to figure this thing out on my own.

Strange indeed, since, as you can see in the screenshot in post #111, I opened exactly the same CAFD using the same version of E-Sys. Are you also using the latest PSdZData (v.56.4)?

BTW, if you have a version of PSdZData newer than 54.1, your CAFDs are trimmed: however, E-Sys Launcher transparently retrieves the function names and comments from PSdZData 54.1 when you open a CAFD in E-Sys. Unfortunately, the process is not entirely error-free.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by dmnc02

For what is worth, here is one more thing I just thought of checking.

Somebody had sent me the FA for a F10 M5 ZCP some time ago asking about the Euro LED settings, so I just used that FA to compare the Euro and US DSC VO values for that car. The CAFD is different from the one on the F8x, but it also has C_Laenderkennung, CTpmsMarket and the other six parameters mentioned in post #4. On that car, C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket are still set to ECE/EU or US, depending on the country variant, but the other six parameters are set to the same values (irrespective of the country variant).

Now, I got to try the M3, M4 and M5 back to back on the track at the M Driving School and felt that MDM was much less restrictive on the M5 (we were asked to keep MDM on all the time), so I asked one of the instructors about it and he confirmed that MDM on the M5 "felt just right", unlike that on the M3/M4 (they do not mess up with coding, so all the MDMs were the US ones).

I also doubt that BMW would make MDM more restrictive on a ZCP car, even one meant for the US market.

So if I understood you correctly, that confirms that changing C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket between EU/ECE and US should have no effect on the euro MDM settings right?

And just out of curiosity, you had both FAs of a US and EU M5 with ZCP to compare or did you just use the FA file of the US car and compared to what people have been posting about their EU ZCP M5 MDM settings?

[dmnc02]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

So if I understood you correctly, that confirms that changing C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket between EU/ECE and US should have no effect on the euro MDM settings right?

No, to me that confirms that leaving C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket set to US and changing the other six parameters to the ECE VO values is the correct way of coding Euro MDM on a US car. I do feel that there is a slight difference between the two settings, which is not a matter of one being more restrictive than the other.

And just our of curiosity, you had both FAs of a US and EU M5 with ZCP to compare or did you just use the FA file of the US car and compared to what people have been posting about their EU ZCP M5 MDM settings?

I only had the FA for a US F10 M5. However, the only difference between the FA for a US and a EU car is in the Typschlüssel (type code), so I changed that in order to create the FA for a similar EU car, which I think is exactly what Shawn originally did for the FA of an F83 in post #4. Once you have the FA, you can calculate the VO values in E-Sys.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by dmnc02

No, to me that confirms that leaving C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket set to US and changing the other six parameters to the ECE VO values is the correct way of coding Euro MDM on a US car. I do feel that there is a slight difference between the two settings, which is not a matter of one being more restrictive than the other.


I only had the FA for a US F10 M5. However, the only difference between the FA for a US and a EU car is in the Typschlüssel (type code), so I changed that in order to create the FA for a similar EU car, which I think is exactly what Shawn originally did for the FA of an F83 in post #4. Once you have the FA, you can calculate the VO values in E-Sys.

Yeah that's what I meant, that you don't need to change those two functions to correctly code euro MDM in a US car, but thanks for the clarification. I will probably code those two back to US and see if I feel a difference.

One thing I found odd about the euro MDM settings is that DSC was still conservative, yet consistent in it's behavior when accelerating hard in a straight line. In a corner however, it is somewhat unpredictable. At times it would be just a bit less restrictive than US MDM, but at others I find myself drifting at a 45 degree angle as if DSC was completely off. It's not consistent in it's behavior. Not that I'm expecting switching C_Laenderkennung and CTpmsMarket back to US would make the behavior more predictable, but interested to see if I notice any difference.

[aboulfad]

BuLoOoSki , that's what I was trying to say in my post above http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...&postcount=116

It seemed conservative in straight line, I only pushed it a bit one morning in a empty parking but not sure if the car would have performed differently or same in US MDM. now it's interesting that dmnc02 says he felt a slight difference ...

[CanAutM3]

Over on the E9X forums, there are discussions of another level of MDM beyond Euro MDM. See this post and this thread. I wonder if that also exists on the F8X .

[dmnc02]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Over on the E9X forums, there are discussions of another level of MDM beyond Euro MDM. See this post and this thread. I wonder if that also exists on the F8X .

That's interesting: we do have the corresponding "oversteer" parameters on our cars (see screenshot).

I did not own an E9x at some point, so I know nothing about coding Euro MDM on that car, but in the thread you link it seem that people were just guessing about the Euro MDM setting (although MDYNAMIC_MODE_USA is an easy bet ) without having an actual comparison with the setting on a Euro-spec car.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Over on the E9X forums, there are discussions of another level of MDM beyond Euro MDM. See this post and this thread. I wonder if that also exists on the F8X .

I, on the other hand am running the other direction. I coded back US MDM in order to isolate the cause of the intermittent "regulated differential lock: DSC function not available" fault. CanAutM3 did you ever use Rheingold? I am curious if other Canadian EuroMDM coders are getting faults in their ECUs similar to mine...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I, on the other hand am running the other direction. I coded back US MDM in order to isolate the cause of the intermittent "regulated differential lock: DSC function not available" fault. CanAutM3 did you ever use Rheingold? I am curious if other Canadian EuroMDM coders are getting faults in their ECUs similar to mine...

No, not using Rheingold just yet. I have been quite busy and did not have time to look into it. But I am planning to dive into it at the first opportunity, thanks to dmnc02 who sent me all the relevant info .

I have not had a single issue with my DSC since coding Euro-MDM so far.

[dmnc02]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I, on the other hand am running the other direction. I coded back US MDM in order to isolate the cause of the intermittent "regulated differential lock: DSC function not available" fault. CanAutM3 did you ever use Rheingold? I am curious if other Canadian EuroMDM coders are getting faults in their ECUs similar to mine...

aboulfad, the only difference between US and Canadian cars should be the presence of RDCi or RPA for tire pressure monitoring. I did try after our discussion in your thread to remove 2VB (Tire Pressure Monitor) from my FA and recalculate the VO values for DSC. The differences for a car without 2VB remain the same as those that Shawn identified in post #4: there are two other parameters in DSC that identify whether the car has RDCi or RPA, but those do not change with the country variant. In any case, it will be interesting to see what CanAutM3 finds out when he checks his car with Rheingold.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have not had a single issue with my DSC since coding Euro-MDM so far.

I didn't get anything visible neither but when you scan your car with rheingold, you may discover "stuff" related or not related to coding...

dmnc02 I agree that there should be no differences between the US and CA DSC ECU and I wasnt implying that coding EuroMDM causes or is correlated with faults. Just curious if another person that coded similar things to see what "faults" are stored in their cars memory