M3/M4 vs. GT350

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by XT6Wagon

if you notice the dsg M4 pulls .6 on the 0-60. The 0-100 has the same difference. 0-130 it claws out another .2. 0-150 is the only place its clear there is meaningful in gear acceleration difference. Wonder if its drag or power related.

DSG is also going to shift faster than the best manual driver making the M4 far superior in sustained straight line.

I think the main reason for the F8x being faster in a straight line is gearing (and DCT vs manual shifting). The GT350 is definitely not down on power compared to the F8x, and is negligibly heavier.

[ThomasM4]

Yeah I think a manual M4 vs GT350 would be a drivers race. They should be very close in a drag race. The GT350 should be faster around the track though.

[minn19]

I made the jump and FWIW here are my thoughts after driving the GT350 for 200 miles yesterday. Keep in mind I am still breaking it in, while doing it rather aggressively, I still haven't gone WOT or really thrown it around in the corners for a sustained time. I split it up to two posts and it may look weird, but I was responding to other members questions in another sub-forum.

I'm terrible at these reviews, but I'll try and give some impressions after the 200 miles I did today.

First, I'm actually kind of surprised how similar the GT350 and M3/4 are more than they are different. They both feel about the same size and both obviously have extremely powerful/hard pulling engines. They also both corner very similarly and feel like they have similar amounts of grip.

Here are the differences from what I can tell engine/acceleration wise. The S55 has a bit of lag and the GT350 does seem to have a broader more linear power delivery. I thought the GT350 would be gutless down low, but it isn't. I'm still breaking it in so I didn't go WOT or redline it, but I did hit it hard up to 6kish. It felt extremely strong from 2400ish up to that and showed absolutely no signs of dying off at 6k. It feels like it will keep pulling just as hard all the way to 8200. That being said, the S55 after 2800ish RPM felt more explosive when the boost hit to 7ish and then dies off a couple of hundred before redline. Both have awesome throttle response.

Handling. As I said, they both feel very similar size wise and overall amount of grip in the corners. The M3/4 feels like it has better turn in and initial bite in the corner. The GT350 felt like it understeered just a little. The GT350 felt flatter through the corner by a little bit. The GT350 was also a bit smoother and less nervous in sport suspension mode when going over uneven roads. These differences are minimal though and I was shocked at how alike I thought they both were. The GT350 V8 did feel better when leaving the corner and less like an on/off switch when the S55 is in sport or definitely sport plus throttle.

Interior goes to the M3/4 and iDrive is better than anything out there. But, the GT350 interior isn't bad even if it is a bit dated. I will say the standard GT350 seats are noticeably more comfortable than the M 3/4 seats. I was surprised about that. It is kind of cool that the vehicle production number is on a plague on the dash. I'm a dork and like that stuff. Also, the engine has a plague on the engine signed by the guy that hand built it. These are nice touches and add a bit of specialness IMO.

Brakes go to the GT350. It has massive disks and 6/4 pot front and rear calipers. Stopping power is astounding. The M3/4 steel brakes are awesome, but these were noticeably stronger.

I can't compare manual transmissions, but the GT350s is very nice with short throws and smooth engagement with the clutch. I haven't driven a manual for a while, but it was very easy to pick it up in this car again. Even when shifting quick.

Both are awesome looking in different ways when it comes to the exterior. Just depends on your taste. If you like aerodynamic packages though the GT350 has everything standard. A real/functional diffuser along with splitter/lips, side gills and rocker blades.

Anyway, IMO no car is perfect and I know I bust the one guys balls a lot for saying the ZCP and non-ZCP are night and day different. I wouldn't even say that these two cars are night and day different. NO car is perfect and you give up somethings to get other things. I'm loving my car journey and having a lot of fun trying different cars. Both the M3/4 and GT350 are awesome cars and fun in different ways. I would say you get your moneys worth with both of them and both are amazing cars that we are lucky to own.

This is for you GrussGott (if you made it this far). I never drove an E9X M3, but if you loved that car, I can see people loving the GT350 as it is a E9X on roids from what I've read.

[minn19]

I loved the M3/4s steel brakes, it's just that the GT350 has a true BBK on the car. The rotors are a bit bigger coupled the 6 piston front and 4 piston rear calipers. This is compared to the 4/2 combo on the BMW. Again, it isn't night and day different, but they do feel stronger and are not at all grabby/linear just like the M3/4.

The overall ergonomics definitely go to BMW. I agree with you, I haven't been in another car no matter the brand that does it better. For example, the M steering wheel is excellent in both feel(size) and button placement. I never had to move my hands and could just move my thumbs to hit whatever button I needed to. The M1 and M2 buttons are an excellent idea as well. I haven't seen that in any other car. But, the GT350 is not bad in this department. Everything is in perfect reach control wise and the clutch to shifter combo are perfect to me. The Ford's interior just feels cheaper probably because it is. I have the standard leather seats with the cloth inserts and I love them. They are perfect, just not very adjustable compared to BMW. Which, is fine for me. I'm the only one that really drives this car so I set it once and leave it for the most part, except for maybe lumbar adjustments.

This leads me to another topic, options. BMW wins here for the most part as well. This a perfect example that there is no perfect car and you are always giving up something to get something else. The GT350 has cooled/ventilated seats. I don't care for them, but I know a lot of people do. It also has track apps that measure everything from, cylinder head temps, intake temps etc to timed events. It has internal lap timers, 0-whatever timers, G-Force meters and even 100-0/60-0 brake performance if you wish. What it doesn't have is parking sensors, HUD (except for a LED performance/track shift signal), blind spot monitoring or any kind of auto braking for safety etc. There also is no rev matching for the manual from what I can tell anyway. Oh yeah and the stereo isn't great compared to the HK. There is probably some things I'm missing.

I'm really terrible at the steering feel question. The GT350 has the same basic 3 modes like the M. I would call this a wash and as it is to close to call for me. Somebody else is probably a better judge of it than me. Maybe when I track the GT350 for the first time I'll have a different opinion.

Last couple of notes. The traction control isn't nearly as intrusive on the GT350. It is much more seamless and less annoying allowing some tail wag in normal mode. Granted my M4 was not updated and the newer software/ZCP sounds much improved so this could be closer than it is now. Otherwise, that is only one of two night and day differences I could really find between the two cars so far.

The GT350 drinks gas like my friend drinks Coors light. I am averaging about 16 miles to the gallon. I have been breaking it in fairly aggressive though and it has all been back road driving. So a lot of stop/go and on/off the throttle. Will see if it improves when I drive it on my normal work commute. Otherwise it is a very clear win for the S55 and the M3/4.

Edit: Rotor size comparison of the brakes. M3/4 380/370mm and the GT350 are 394/380. Only thing that sucks about that is it will only fit a 19inch rim and up over them.

[minn19]

Oh yeah, it is a tech pack 16 Avalanche Grey with over the top black stripes. I'm nervous about the overheating issue with these cars on the track, but I was assured (multiple times) that a retro kit for the transmission and diff coolers is on the way. Will see. I only have one auto X event lined up for this year so I'll see how it does with that to start with.

I didn't want to wait for the 17s because I'm not sure if ADMs will come down much if at all in my region. And my Ford dealer was giving me $4500 more for my M4 than anybody else was. Made the $5000 ADM palatable I guess, still obviously don't like it, but oh well. YOLO as the kids say :roll eyes:

Here is the pic.

[ThomasM4]

Originally Posted by minn19

Oh yeah, it is a tech pack 16 Avalanche Grey with over the top black stripes. I'm nervous about the overheating issue with these cars on the track, but I was assured (multiple times) that a retro kit for the transmission and diff coolers is on the way. Will see. I only have one auto X event lined up for this year so I'll see how it does with that to start with.

I didn't want to wait for the 17s because I'm not sure if ADMs will come down much if at all in my region. And my Ford dealer was giving me $4500 more for my M4 than anybody else was. Made the $5000 ADM palatable I guess, still obviously don't like it, but oh well. YOLO as the kids say :roll eyes:

Here is the pic.

Welcome to the club, just wait till that first time you wind it all the way out to redline. It's almost magical.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by minn19

I made the jump and FWIW here are my thoughts after driving the GT350 for 200 miles yesterday. Keep in mind I am still breaking it in, while doing it rather aggressively, I still haven't gone WOT or really thrown it around in the corners for a sustained time. I split it up to two posts and it may look weird, but I was responding to other members questions in another sub-forum.

I'm terrible at these reviews, but I'll try and give some impressions after the 200 miles I did today.

First, I'm actually kind of surprised how similar the GT350 and M3/4 are more than they are different. They both feel about the same size and both obviously have extremely powerful/hard pulling engines. They also both corner very similarly and feel like they have similar amounts of grip.

Here are the differences from what I can tell engine/acceleration wise. The S55 has a bit of lag and the GT350 does seem to have a broader more linear power delivery. I thought the GT350 would be gutless down low, but it isn't. I'm still breaking it in so I didn't go WOT or redline it, but I did hit it hard up to 6kish. It felt extremely strong from 2400ish up to that and showed absolutely no signs of dying off at 6k. It feels like it will keep pulling just as hard all the way to 8200. That being said, the S55 after 2800ish RPM felt more explosive when the boost hit to 7ish and then dies off a couple of hundred before redline. Both have awesome throttle response.

Handling. As I said, they both feel very similar size wise and overall amount of grip in the corners. The M3/4 feels like it has better turn in and initial bite in the corner. The GT350 felt like it understeered just a little. The GT350 felt flatter through the corner by a little bit. The GT350 was also a bit smoother and less nervous in sport suspension mode when going over uneven roads. These differences are minimal though and I was shocked at how alike I thought they both were. The GT350 V8 did feel better when leaving the corner and less like an on/off switch when the S55 is in sport or definitely sport plus throttle.

Interior goes to the M3/4 and iDrive is better than anything out there. But, the GT350 interior isn't bad even if it is a bit dated. I will say the standard GT350 seats are noticeably more comfortable than the M 3/4 seats. I was surprised about that. It is kind of cool that the vehicle production number is on a plague on the dash. I'm a dork and like that stuff. Also, the engine has a plague on the engine signed by the guy that hand built it. These are nice touches and add a bit of specialness IMO.

Brakes go to the GT350. It has massive disks and 6/4 pot front and rear calipers. Stopping power is astounding. The M3/4 steel brakes are awesome, but these were noticeably stronger.

I can't compare manual transmissions, but the GT350s is very nice with short throws and smooth engagement with the clutch. I haven't driven a manual for a while, but it was very easy to pick it up in this car again. Even when shifting quick.

Both are awesome looking in different ways when it comes to the exterior. Just depends on your taste. If you like aerodynamic packages though the GT350 has everything standard. A real/functional diffuser along with splitter/lips, side gills and rocker blades.

Anyway, IMO no car is perfect and I know I bust the one guys balls a lot for saying the ZCP and non-ZCP are night and day different. I wouldn't even say that these two cars are night and day different. NO car is perfect and you give up somethings to get other things. I'm loving my car journey and having a lot of fun trying different cars. Both the M3/4 and GT350 are awesome cars and fun in different ways. I would say you get your moneys worth with both of them and both are amazing cars that we are lucky to own.

This is for you GrussGott (if you made it this far). I never drove an E9X M3, but if you loved that car, I can see people loving the GT350 as it is a E9X on roids from what I've read.

Very concise and objective review...none of the "this is what the F8x should have been".

[XT6Wagon]

Originally Posted by minn19

Edit: Rotor size comparison of the brakes. M3/4 380/370mm and the GT350 are 394/380. Only thing that sucks about that is it will only fit a 19inch rim and up over them.

Apparently the front Calipers are stolen from the Enzo. They are massive compared to the 5.0GT PP 6 pot front calipers. Many 19" rims don't fit over it, so watch that.

Even with the 295 supersports up front you have more brake than you have tire. Go ahead and sign up for a day at https://fordperformanceracingschool.com/ So you can experience that with someone else's car and tires.

As far as the understeer feeling, Its somewhat of a lie. It likes to punish the outside front tire, and the tire will start telling you stories about its torture well before its out of actual grip. Its somewhat startling how much the pro driver hammered on the front tires without getting actual understeer. The rear likes to play follow the leader unless you get dumb with the throttle. Its really nice how the gas pedal controls the back, never had a RWD car that was smooth in response to the throttle rotating the car.

[TheRealOrosie]

To follow Minn19's review with a few brief comparisons of my own....

Engine - only have just over 500 miles on the engine, so I have not taken it to redline more than a couple times, but I have done a couple runs at WOT through 3rd gear. The engine just pulls and pulls...very linear. You can really feel the cam profile switch over at 3500 rpm, and from there it builds power in a strong, linear fashion all the way to redline. Very similar to the e9x...just a bit more brutal. Nice torque down low...obviously not as strong as the F8x S55 below 5k...but the instant throttle response and zero lag is quite nice.

Steering - I have to give the nod to the GT350 here. It does have the three different settings, which don't seem quite as far apart as the F80's did. I don't really care for the most sporty setting, and always keep in on the mid setting, just like I did in the M. It seems to provide a bit more feedback than the M's did...a bit less numb feeling.

Suspension/Grip - This is tough, as I have much more seat time in my ex-F80 than in the new GT350, but grip seems a plenty...with a bit better traction than the Bimmer. The nannies are much less intrusive, but still keep the craziness at bay. I am guessing that the GT350 puts the power down a bit better due to the gearing and power delivery...as well as having beefy 305 pilots in back, compared to the 275's on the F80. The magnetic shocks are very sweet...and provide a very dynamic and comfortable ride in normal mode, and a tight, stiff ride in sport. I would say the stiffest setting is a bit more subdued compared to sport+ on the M...but close.

Brakes - Beast. The F80's were pretty strong too....and these are every bit as good from what I can tell so far. The brake technology on GT350 is pretty sweet, with the cross-drilled iron rotors around an aluminum hat. The Brembo calipers are beefy too.

Exhaust sound - Ummmm...ya. Insane. Advantage GT350 by a country mile. Nuff said.

I have to second what Minn19 said about gas mileage. This engine drinks like Charlie Sheen at a brothel. I am lucky to get 14 mpg...but I do next to zero highway driving...so I am not too surprised.

All in all, I am very happy with the GT350 so far. While I am sure that I am only on hiatus from BMW....I can confidently say I am not missing the F80 since picking up this bad boy.

[Ian1973]

Looks nice, but I couldn't live with 14mpg. Yikes.

FYI, I just went up to 295s MPSS's in the rear and have NO spin in 2nd gear now, where I would light up 2nd gear with the 275's. I absolutely hammered it for a guy yesterday and only "chirped" going into 2nd. So in my mind the traction issues can be fixed with larger tires.

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

Looks nice, but I couldn't live with 14mpg. Yikes.

FYI, I just went up to 295s MPSS's in the rear and have NO spin in 2nd gear now, where I would light up 2nd gear with the 275's. I absolutely hammered it for a guy yesterday and only "chirped" going into 2nd. So in my mind the traction issues can be fixed with larger tires.

I really never got much better than 20 mpg in my M3 with mixed city/highway (I like to drive somewhat hard)...so in the grand scheme of things 14-16 is livable. This and the fact that I don't care about gas mileage. If I did, I wouldn't be driving sports cars.

Interesting fact on your 295's in the rear...because even with those on my F80, there is no way I still would not light the tires up. Hell...I couldn't get traction in 3rd gear in that car when I was getting on it...and I was a measly Dinan Stage 2. There is no way 20mm on each side is going to change that.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ThomasM4

Welcome to the club, just wait till that first time you wind it all the way out to redline. It's almost magical.

I thought I was close and when I looked down it was about 6200. I'll wait until I get an oil change at 1000 miles and then I'll let her rip.

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

Very concise and objective review...none of the "this is what the F8x should have been".

Thanks, I really have no issue with the M3/4 as it is an awesome car. I guess I'm just looking for something a bit different. I can't really put my finger on it. I tried to be as open and objective about both cars positives and negatives. Obviously it is from my personal point of view and my opinion.

Originally Posted by XT6Wagon

Apparently the front Calipers are stolen from the Enzo. They are massive compared to the 5.0GT PP 6 pot front calipers. Many 19" rims don't fit over it, so watch that.

Even with the 295 supersports up front you have more brake than you have tire. Go ahead and sign up for a day at https://fordperformanceracingschool.com/ So you can experience that with someone else's car and tires.

As far as the understeer feeling, Its somewhat of a lie. It likes to punish the outside front tire, and the tire will start telling you stories about its torture well before its out of actual grip. Its somewhat startling how much the pro driver hammered on the front tires without getting actual understeer. The rear likes to play follow the leader unless you get dumb with the throttle. Its really nice how the gas pedal controls the back, never had a RWD car that was smooth in response to the throttle rotating the car.

I did M school last April and got a 10/10 hot lap with an instructor/pro driver. It is eye opening to say the least. I'm definitely going to be going to Ford school and can't wait. When I get more seat time and everything is broke in it will be interesting to see if I feel the same as you do.

I have no plans on modding anything yet. That is one of the things that drew me to this car is that I don't feel like I have to do anything to it. Except maybe the cooler retro fit for the tech cars if it becomes available and if I get the time to really hit the tracks hard. Thanks for the post.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Hill Country Driver

I have to second what Minn19 said about gas mileage. This engine drinks like Charlie Sheen at a brothel. I am lucky to get 14 mpg...but I do next to zero highway driving...so I am not too surprised.

All in all, I am very happy with the GT350 so far. While I am sure that I am only on hiatus from BMW....I can confidently say I am not missing the F80 since picking up this bad boy.

We could have fun with a lot of one liners with the MPG of this thing.

I feel the same as you do. I'm guessing I'll be back in a BMW in the future. I still love M cars and will be seeing what comes out in the future. In the meantime it is nice to experience different brands and cars to see what they have to offer.

Edit: Nice car by the way! Looks to be my twin except for the different color stripes.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

Looks nice, but I couldn't live with 14mpg. Yikes.

FYI, I just went up to 295s MPSS's in the rear and have NO spin in 2nd gear now, where I would light up 2nd gear with the 275's. I absolutely hammered it for a guy yesterday and only "chirped" going into 2nd. So in my mind the traction issues can be fixed with larger tires.

Yah it will be interesting what it really is when I do my 80% highway work commute. I'm averaging 16mpg doing the backroad/fun thing. If I could get to at least 20mpg for my commute I'd be ok with that.

I had 295 PSS in the rear as well and could still spin them. Not nearly as bad as with the stock 275 though. But, in general I do agree with you that it was fairly easy fix.

[XT6Wagon]

Originally Posted by minn19

I have no plans on modding anything yet. That is one of the things that drew me to this car is that I don't feel like I have to do anything to it. Except maybe the cooler retro fit for the tech cars if it becomes available and if I get the time to really hit the tracks hard. Thanks for the post.

The school cars have a couple mods. Front Camber plates as you can't hit the recommended negative camber in the front. No camber bolts from the factory to ensure a solid hub to strut connection.

They also have driver and passenger side Ford Performance Catch cans. Ford Advises that for frequent track use.

So far I haven't heard of any other mods that seem worth while. Long tubes make good power, but are expensive and the first car with them set itself on fire and no cause has been given. Cat Backs make no power, and to me sound horrid. Tunes make some power, but I'm a bit wary of that on a motor that already needs more than 93 octane to run at its best. Maybe if you have an easy E85 station since all it needs to run E85 is a tune.

Light rims with track rubber though, that is mighty tempting.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by minn19

Yah it will be interesting what it really is when I do my 80% highway work commute. I'm averaging 16mpg doing the backroad/fun thing. If I could get to at least 20mpg for my commute I'd be ok with that.

I had 295 PSS in the rear as well and could still spin them. Not nearly as bad as with the stock 275 though. But, in general I do agree with you that it was fairly easy fix.

congrats! beautiful car, post some more pics!

the gt350 is definitely the only replacement for me if i wanted to get rid of the m3, except i want 4 doors

don't be a stranger on the forum!

[minn19]

Originally Posted by XT6Wagon

The school cars have a couple mods. Front Camber plates as you can't hit the recommended negative camber in the front. No camber bolts from the factory to ensure a solid hub to strut connection.

They also have driver and passenger side Ford Performance Catch cans. Ford Advises that for frequent track use.

So far I haven't heard of any other mods that seem worth while. Long tubes make good power, but are expensive and the first car with them set itself on fire and no cause has been given. Cat Backs make no power, and to me sound horrid. Tunes make some power, but I'm a bit wary of that on a motor that already needs more than 93 octane to run at its best. Maybe if you have an easy E85 station since all it needs to run E85 is a tune.

Light rims with track rubber though, that is mighty tempting.

Huh, maybe the schools have different philosophies. But, AFAIK the M cars were 100% stock. I think that is kind of plus that those take the abuse stock day in day out. Obviously with a lot more maintenance, but you know what I mean.

I agree about the mods. NO way in hell am I going to mess with the exhaust. It is perfect the way it is IMO. Not messing with the motor, but I never do that anyway no matter the car. Both of these cars had plenty of power for me.

I am a wheel whore though and agree that that would be tempting.

Edit: What are long tubes? Straight exhaust?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

congrats! beautiful car, post some more pics!

the gt350 is definitely the only replacement for me if i wanted to get rid of the m3, except i want 4 doors

don't be a stranger on the forum!

Thanks! I suck at the pic thing, but will try this weekend.

I also will stick around and will try not to be an annoying troll like one of our other longtime buddies here.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by minn19

Thanks! I suck at the pic thing, but will try this weekend.

I also will stick around and will try not to be an annoying troll like one of our other longtime buddies here.

i'm sure you're going to try to keep an open mind with a bmw forum.

try and take pics of the plaque and interior too plz

did you consider other cars? camaro ss? c63s? ats-v? test drive these cars at all before pulling the trigger?

damn, i wish i could go and check it out!

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

i'm sure you're going to try to keep an open mind with a bmw forum.

try and take pics of the plaque and interior too plz

did you consider other cars? camaro ss? c63s? ats-v? test drive these cars at all before pulling the trigger?

Tried to test drive an ATS-V last November and the dealership wouldn't let me. They also wanted MSRP for it or maybe 1k off. Left and never looked back.

Recently sat in a 16 Camaro SS and just didn't feel it. Hate GM with a passion, but was willing to look at it. If I went the Camaro route and decided to give GM a try again after 20 years I was going to wait for the new Zl1.

C63S is just too something for me and not sure what that is, but have never really been interested in that car. Except for the motor, holy shit what a motor.

So my short list was, stay with my M4, a 17 Zl1 Camaro and believe it or not......a Golf R (have always liked those for some reason, but still last resort).

Any way, I obviously ended up with the GT350. Here is a pic of the engine bay and you can kind of see the signed build plaque on one of the valve covers. The strut tower just says Ford Performance. Will try and take better ones of those two this week.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by minn19

Tried to test drive an ATS-V last November and the dealership wouldn't let me. They also wanted MSRP for it. Left and never looked back.

Sat in a Camaro SS and just didn't feel it. Hate GM with a passion, but was willing to look at it. If I went the Camaro route and decided to give GM a try again after 20 years I was going to wait for the new Zl1.

C63S is just too something for me and not sure what that is, but have never really been interested in that car. Except for the motor, holy shit what a motor.

So my short list was, stay with my M4, a 17 Zl1 Camaro and believe it or not......a Golf R (have always liked those for some reason, but still last resort).

Any way, I obviously ended up with the GT350. Here is a pic of the engine bay and you can kind of see the signed build plaque on one of the valve covers. The strut tower just says Ford Performance. Will try and take better ones of those two this week.

thanks.

friend of mine is debating between a golf R vs a m4... he's 40+ and starting to think the golf is a bit juvenile for him.

my local ford dealer has about 3 gt350's in their lot- i hope the days of adm's are soon over. i hate it when dealers do that, completely gouging. I remember paying 1k adm for the e46 back in the day.

at least the gt350 seems like it won't be depreciating much at all. that v8 is special for sure.

[XT6Wagon]

Originally Posted by minn19

Huh, maybe the schools have different philosophies. But, AFAIK the M cars were 100% stock. I think that is kind of plus that those take the abuse stock day in day out. Obviously with a lot more maintenance, but you know what I mean.

I agree about the mods. NO way in hell am I going to mess with the exhaust. It is perfect the way it is IMO. Not messing with the motor, but I never do that anyway no matter the car. Both of these cars had plenty of power for me.

I am a wheel whore though and agree that that would be tempting.

Edit: What are long tubes? Straight exhaust?

The catch cans are to keep oil out of the intake. Its fine for the street without them, but when they are spending a couple hours a day every day out on the track its cheap assistance. Since they are Ford parts they look OEM.

The camber plates are due to the stock alignment being for the street, but the advised track alignment is more aggressive and needs the camber plates. Even the track alignment is only -1.8 camber.

Long tubes are long tube headers, you can still run cats with them if you want, but not legal in some states as the cats will be move more to the rear. IIRC its 30hp up on stock manifolds, but the downsides are not good. Take up more room, hang lower, no heat shields stock.