M4 vs. 911 Performance Comparison Review in Car and Driver

[ilya335]

Having test driven both cars, I would have to agree with the majority of the article. However, I don't exactly agree with their "fun to drive" scores.

When testing the 911, I was really disappointed with how tame the car felt under straight line acceleration. I know the car is fast on paper but it didn't really feel that fast. You also really had to rev the engine up to get to the power band. Due to the location, I really didn't get to take the 911 through turns, where the car most likely shines the most. Also, the car felt very cramped on the inside, and the rear seats are a joke. The PDK was good but nothing to brag about.

My M3 test drive reminded me of the first time I ever drove a e90x M3. My heart was racing and my hands were shaking. The straight line acceleration is absolutely furious and vicious! Even from 1500rpm, the car pulls like a monster and the shifts are lightning quick and aggressive. The latest DCT is smoother and faster than the e90x DCT (even with software).

So sure, the Porsche chassis is better as it should be. It's a smaller and lighter car with a rear engine and massive rear tires; not to mention more expensive. But after a 15min test drive, the latest M3 put a big grin on my face just like the e46 and the e9x did when I first drove it. The Porsche made me wonder where the extra $20k was going, and that I should probably look at a S version.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by ilya335

Having test driven both cars, I would have to agree with the majority of the article. However, I don't exactly agree with their "fun to drive" scores.

When testing the 911, I was really disappointed with how tame the car felt under straight line acceleration. I know the car is fast on paper but it didn't really feel that fast. You also really had to rev the engine up to get to the power band. Due to the location, I really didn't get to take the 911 through turns, where the car most likely shines the most. Also, the car felt very cramped on the inside, and the rear seats are a joke. The PDK was good but nothing to brag about.

My M3 test drive reminded me of the first time I ever drove a e90x M3. My heart was racing and my hands were shaking. The straight line acceleration is absolutely furious and vicious! Even from 1500rpm, the car pulls like a monster and the shifts are lightning quick and aggressive. The latest DCT is smoother and faster than the e90x DCT (even with software).

So sure, the Porsche chassis is better as it should be. It's a smaller and lighter car with a rear engine and massive rear tires; not to mention more expensive. But after a 15min test drive, the latest M3 put a big grin on my face just like the e46 and the e9x did when I first drove it. The Porsche made me wonder where the extra $20k was going, and that I should probably look at a S version.

If you go by that logic, why was the E9x M3 double the price of the Mustang GT when they have identical performance figures?

When you figure it out, apply the same logic when comparing M3 to the 911.

[ilya335]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

If you go by that logic, why was the E9x M3 double the price of the Mustang GT when they have identical performance figures?

When you figure it out, apply the same logic when comparing M3 to the 911.

Fit, finish, and build quality. Though I didn't consider the Porsche interior that much superior to the M3's, especially with how cramped it is. Also, I'm not going simply by performance figures but by the excitement the cars deliver on a daily basis.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by ilya335

Fit, finish, and build quality. Though I didn't consider the Porsche interior that much superior to the M3's, especially with how cramped it is. Also, I'm not going simply by performance figures but by the excitement the cars deliver on a daily basis.

911 engines are hand built I believe, while M3/M4 are mass produced by robots.
This could also be a reason for a higher price.

[smq42]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

911 engines are hand built I believe, while M3/M4 are mass produced by robots.
This could also be a reason for a higher price.

They stopped building them by hand back in the 90s.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

If you go by that logic, why was the E9x M3 double the price of the Mustang GT when they have identical performance figures?

You have to take but one look at the interior to figure it out.


Cheers.

[SouthernBoy]

I must admit. As much as I like BMW, Porsche 911s are significantly better in every way compared to a BMW as far as performance. BUT BMW has the practicality and creature comforts I love. Plus decent performance. I will probably always stick with BMWs. Porsche 911's are just too small for me.

[cs4444]

The M4 kills the base 911 even with 400 extra lbs and 2 usable rear seats, its 1.5 seconds quicker to 100mph, and 2.5 to 130mph.. They just used a base 911 to keep the price down, so they could keep the score close to the M4's. If they used a comparably equipped 911 S it would have been $120K easily. Which would have lowered the score, and the 911 S's performance would most likely barely match the M4.

[FormulaMMM]

E92 got a 25 on the fun to drive scale. 21 is weak.

Insecure M4 guys get at me!

Kidding... Nice win for the M4. I want to drive one.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by smq42

They stopped building them by hand back in the 90s.

I Know the body/frame and other components aren't hand built, but the engines are hand assembled?
Skip to 29:19

[Zayken]

Originally Posted by kevinlevrone

The only reason I see someone choosing a 911 over an M4 is either for status showing or because he has so much money that he can buy one of each just for the fun of it.

I mean, the M4 is like 30% cheaper, has more performance both in real world and on the track, looks very elegant and aggressive and has a great ride quality and interior quality.

And what about the weight difference ? the smaller dimensions ? the sharper engine response ??? Come on , be more sensible.

The comparo makes the point on how good the new M4 is because it can go head to head with a pure sports car . If you all knew how far better the new 991 is from 997, you would be very happy with this test

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by IMOLAM5

So just confirming.....top of the line model BMW compared to base 911? Or was it an Carrera S at the least? Just curious.

I'm pretty sure it was a base 911. I think they should have used the carrera s it's more comparable. 991 carrera s is right on par with the M4 probably a bit faster down the stretch. With a PDK I remember seeing one test do 11.90 in the 1/4.

[modkrazy]

So 911 the better driver's car, and the M3 the better value for the money and more practical rear seat. About as expected.

[Leonardo629]

again world, M4/M3 is the best OVERALL car you can buy, not surprised.

And didn't we learn that VW makes around $23K per Porsche sold, and that's simply what VW charges Porsche dealers in the form of $xx amount + cost = $MSRP we see on the window sticker...etc..etc. For all we know a M4 and a Carrera can cost the same to make at the factory, but Porsche can simply charge more because the market demand allows them.

[jasonn]

Personally, I really dislike Porche's multimedia interface. The iDrive is leaps and bounds ahead. But so is Audi's.

It's really sad how the higher up you go the worse off your infotainment is.

Wanted to give some responses as an owner:

Originally Posted by toper

not sure why they used a C2 instead of a C2S for the comparo, if it was because they wanted to get closer on price they might as well have used a Cayman S/GTS.

Also I don't understand the 5 for cargo space score that the Porsche got, you can't fit jack in the frunk.

I bought my wife a Cayman and it's a great fit for her but it's definitely very tight for me.

The 991 is very roomy; you could mistake it for a gt car until you drive it.

In the year I've owned my 991, I haven't had any issue with my frunk. I've never felt I needed more storage space. The cayman has the same frunk as the 991 and also some space in the rear.

Originally Posted by 6underpressure

I drove a base Carrera a few weeks back wasn't that impressed.... I would definitely need a 991s or a gt3 to be happy

I don't think you would be happy with an S. I drove the base and S back to back and the torque is definitely lacking in both. An argument has been made that they should just get rid of the base 991 and make the C2S the base 991 model.

Both cars come alive above 4500rpm; need to keep revs up. But I think that's the case with any N/A car. I'm not going to say one is better than the other; I am a straight line guy who enjoys cheap thrills on the freeway. So most of my friends were surprised when I got the 991, the quintessential driver's car. I got the 991 because the M4 was still unreleased at the time, I already had a extremely modded 335i that basically resembled a m3, Porsche was a perceived upper tier, and the 991 model was new. As it is now, I can't say I would be willing to exchange my base 991 for a m4. Hate to put it this way but it would feel like a downgrade.

I'd say the 991 for me was a gateway car--it's still practical in the context of sports cars, but after being in a 991 I want to be more impractical. Unfortunately investments and increasing cash flow take priority for the time being so I'll slip into a used C2S next year but hopefully I can get something completely impractical by 2017/2018. For me, I just can't shake the feeling of the m4 as just a modified 3 series. It just seems like a compromise. Further, on Facebook, a fellow e90poster posted this pic:



I thought those were all M4s until I looked more closely. But honestly...to the layman...they are all the same car! Even to me they look the same!!


The 991 practically drives itself but make you feel like a hero when you take turns hard. I can only imagine what a skilled driver could do with my vehicle.

C2S 0-60 = 3.9s with launch control/sport chrono
C2 0-60 = 4.1s with launch control/sport chrono

Judging from your statement, you would probably need a 991 turbo to be happy, not a GT3. I test drove a 911 turbo, not even a 991 turbo s, and it gave me a big grin.

Also I've noticed the base 991 has a noticeably lower and louder exhaust note than the C2S so I'd definitely get the sports exhaust on the C2S.

Originally Posted by JoshuaKM

I test drove a 2012 certified new generation base PDK 911 this weekend which was being offered at 80k .... about the same price as a loaded M3/M4. I loved the look of the 911... gorgeous styling, impeccable interior and I definitely enjoyed my test drive, but I have two comments, and I apologize to any Porsche owners on this forum but I am a novice driver so take what I say with a grain of salt...

(1) I didn't feel a sudden surge of speed and torque when I stepped on the gas pedal. After a few seconds the car would take off but I wasn't blown away by the acceleration.
(2) The steering felt incredibly tight and firm compared to my current 535i. Obviously the 911 is a sports car and is supposed to have firm steering but it felt like it took a lot of effort to steer this thing.

I wish I could compare to the M3/M4 but unfortunately my local dealer has not been able to get another demo in the showroom after selling the first demo within 12 hours of its arrival!

Yeah I came from a 335i so I definitely missed the sudden torque head-throw-back / seat-of-the-pants feel.

For the 991, it's very linear and you feel like you are going to take off--it just keeps going. The PDK and instantaneous downshifts are very addicting and F1 sounding.

Coming from a 335i the feeling of a lack of torque is persistent reminder in my base 991, but at the same time, there has not been a car on the freeway I haven't been able to over take easily with two downshifts.

For 85-90k you can pick up a used C2S. That's probably what I'm going to do next year.

Originally Posted by BlackCobra08

In all fairness you need to be comparing cars within the same price range. A base Carrera S is gonna push you over $100,000 which is at least 35 grand and 35% more than the base M4.

My base 991 MSRP is $106k. It was decently optioned but not well-optioned.

Most Carrera S's are $120k for moderately optioned, up to $138k for well optioned.

Unless you custom order (if so you will not be able to get a good deal), you won't find any bone stock Carrera S's on any dealer lots...

[The long haul]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

"I don't imagine many 911 owners are looking over at an m3/m4 wishing that was their car (though I hope like me they can appreciate the car for what it is). But I dare say there will be a good few m3/m4 owners that pull up next to a 911 wishing they were driving that instead."

How about the other way around? When I pull up next to a 911 the other guy will be thinking, "OMG I'm about to be smoked by a guy with his two kids in the back seat who paid 1/3 less for his car than I did!"

Oh how this new generation of BMW guys have changed. 8 years ago when real M cars existed nobody cared about drag racing and straight line speed, it was shunned. Now it's all you guys care about and forgot the real reason for owning an M car. Straight speed is nice but what matters is handling and the joy of driving such a car, not what it's trap speed is. I'm a drag racer of 13 years and BMWs aren't the first thing I associate with drag racing....
Lord help BMW and their future

[GFK007]

I love the m4, but I HIGHLY doubt it's a better performance car than the 991.

[Schittenengitten]

+1000 jasonn

I went from e92 m3 to C2S - the 991 C2 felt to me very very similar power wise to the e92 but drove a lot better. I wanted to go up in power (performance I should say, before you all start hammering me that my car has less hp than the old or new m3/4) so I went with the S. The new m3/4 blends in so much that nobody around me can tell it apart (admittedly same thing with e92) but the 991, wow I've gotten more thumbsup and positive comments and looks in 1 month than I did in 2 years with the m3. I too feel the new m3/4 is a downgrade, no matter the performance.

As to whether the extra $ is worth it, who can say. It certainly is to me and I'm no rich guy trying to make a statement or fanboy, I simply really really love my 991 C2S. For those of you commenting on bang for the buck of m3 vs 911, I find the mustang and camaro comparison valid - it's the same or better performance for much less $$. Or the c7 even. So if you're all about roomy backseat and a trunk and fastest 0-60 or 1/4 mile for your $$, buy American. If you like the m3/4 better for engineering and fit/finish - maybe that's why we pay more for 991 than m3/4 - it's the whole package.

[Crusader]

Originally Posted by kornykidd0

The top gear 30-50 and 50-70 times for the cars must be a typo...

Not typo, turbo. A high performance normally aspirated engine is quite gutless at low rpms in top gear. The M4 torque curve is fat down low, the 911 non-existent.

[Crusader]

Apples and oranges. The M4 is a sports sedan, the 911 a sports car. The M4 (and previously M3) have been best in class for decades. The 911 has no peers in its price range. (Corvette has the #s, but it's still too much Chevy ... albeit a bargain for near super car performance; and what else is there? Maserati? Jaguar?)

[cs4444]

Last Corvette and Carrera S C&D tested..

VEHICLE 2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2014 Porsche 911 Carrera S
BASE PRICE $51,995 $99,850
PRICE AS TESTED $68,375 $148,245


POWERTRAIN
ENGINE

POWER HP @ RPM 460 @ 6000 400 @ 7400
TORQUE LB-FT @ RPM 465 @ 4600 325 @ 5600
REDLINE / FUEL CUTOFF 6500/6600 rpm 7600/7800 rpm
LB PER HP 7.5 8.2

DRIVELINE
TRANSMISSION 7-speed manual 7-speed dual-clutch automatic

C/D TEST
RESULTS
ACCELERATION
0–30 MPH 1.7 sec 1.6 sec
0–60 MPH 4.0 sec 4.0 sec
0–100 MPH 9.2 sec 9.3 sec
0–150 MPH 23.2 sec 22.8 sec
¼-MILE @ MPH 12.5 sec @ 116 12.4 sec @ 116
ROLLING START, 5–60 MPH 4.6 sec 5.0 sec
TOP GEAR, 30–50 MPH 14.0 sec 2.9 sec
TOP GEAR, 50–70 MPH 13.1 sec 2.9 sec
TOP SPEED 190 mph (drag ltd, C/D est) 188 mph (drag ltd, mfr's claim)
CHASSIS
BRAKING 70–0 MPH 142 feet 147 feet
ROADHOLDING,
200-FT-DIA SKIDPAD 1.03 g 1.06 g
610-FT SLALOM 48.0 mph 48.8 mph

WEIGHT
CURB 3460 pounds 3297 pounds
%FRONT/%REAR 49.7/50.3 37.8/62.2

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-specs-page-4

[puredrive]

Originally Posted by IMOLAM5

So just confirming.....top of the line model BMW compared to base 911? Or was it an Carrera S at the least? Just curious.

different league, it would make M4 look bad, especially it's just on the market