Deals are they actually?

[BEMR]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

There are many different comments I could make here, but most have already been touched on above.

So I'll just say - with respect to the language used in the thread title - thank you Yoda for visiting our website!

Not trying to be Yoda, but was reading a thread today here that mentioned a certain BMW store in Orange County that was telling its customers that as a result of CF shortages, only the M4's with Sun Roofs were available from now on. The thread led to throwing the dealership under the bus like seems to be common so often. It starts a my deal is better than your deal, my dealer is better than yours, go see my guy he'll hook you up, and then goes into listing actual numbers, of how who much you paid for what? Who cares, especially when the brag factors include waaaay to many other variables. My deal alone assumes I will be driving 20g a year, when others are 7g a year etc,. how bout that for a variable. I just have had alot of respect for the dealers I have dealt with in the past and really have a hard time MF'n them on a website.

Instead of just responding to the OP's thread I wanted to start a new thread since this seems to be such a commonality amongst so many. You just have to respect the business of others, and what makes your deal better than others is between you and the dealer. No I dont like paying 1355.00 a month for a car payment but when you either roll other obligations and excessive wear into the next deal you eventually just have to deal with it, does anybody really care? I sure don't actually, my last M5 payment was 1550.00 and I knew the only way Id be driving that car was to pay the price, not all of us can afford a cash deal.

[Serious]

Most dealers are scum.

When your business model is based around deceiving and withholding information from your customers in order to maximize profits then I feel no remorse when they get called out or caught in a lie due to customers sharing information through a forum.

[prolif1k]

Originally Posted by BEMR

Not trying to be Yoda, but was reading a thread today here that mentioned a certain BMW store in Orange County that was telling its customers that as a result of CF shortages, only the M4's with Sun Roofs were available from now on. The thread led to throwing the dealership under the bus like seems to be common so often. It starts a my deal is better than your deal, my dealer is better than yours, go see my guy he'll hook you up, and then goes into listing actual numbers, of how who much you paid for what? Who cares, especially when the brag factors include waaaay to many other variables. My deal alone assumes I will be driving 20g a year, when others are 7g a year etc,. how bout that for a variable. I just have had alot of respect for the dealers I have dealt with in the past and really have a hard time MF'n them on a website.

Instead of just responding to the OP's thread I wanted to start a new thread since this seems to be such a commonality amongst so many. You just have to respect the business of others, and what makes your deal better than others is between you and the dealer. No I dont like paying 1355.00 a month for a car payment but when you either roll other obligations and excessive wear into the next deal you eventually just have to deal with it, does anybody really care? I sure don't actually, my last M5 payment was 1550.00 and I knew the only way Id be driving that car was to pay the price, not all of us can afford a cash deal.

Why should that dealership NOT be thrown under the bus? They gave out false information about CF roofs no longer being an option. For someone who isn't as closely involved as people on this forum are, that could have led to a decision to just buy a moonroof car off the lot. Then they stop in for their 1200 mile service a couple months later and see cars with CF roofs on the lot and question what happened, because they wanted a CF roof. It's a slippery slope that could destroy customer trust from their customer base who like to buy M cars. That's their decision to blatantly lie about the cars, but a dealership who chooses to operate like that NEEDS to be called out on the internet. It's not fair for them to try to screw people over like that. Shady dealerships should be scrutinized. When everyone has access to information from others all over the country, it's great that people can look out for each other on here to make sure they have all their facts straight.

No offense, but it seems like all you're trying to do is make yourself feel better about the deal you got on your car. There's nothing wrong with doing that, but if people want to come on here and compare their deals, there's nothing wrong with that either. A lot of people have been educated and saved a lot of money by doing their research on here. I really don't think people post their deals just to start a pissing match.

[BEMR]

Originally Posted by prolif1k

Why should that dealership NOT be thrown under the bus? They gave out false information about CF roofs no longer being an option. For someone who isn't as closely involved as people on this forum are, that could have led to a decision to just buy a moonroof car off the lot. Then they stop in for their 1200 mile service a couple months later and see cars with CF roofs on the lot and question what happened, because they wanted a CF roof. It's a slippery slope that could destroy customer trust from their customer base who like to buy M cars. That's their decision to blatantly lie about the cars, but a dealership who chooses to operate like that NEEDS to be called out on the internet. It's not fair for them to try to screw people over like that. Shady dealerships should be scrutinized. When everyone has access to information from others all over the country, it's great that people can look out for each other on here to make sure they have all their facts straight.

No offense, but it seems like all you're trying to do is make yourself feel better about the deal you got on your car. There's nothing wrong with doing that, but if people want to come on here and compare their deals, there's nothing wrong with that either. A lot of people have been educated and saved a lot of money by doing their research on here. I really don't think people post their deals just to start a pissing match.

1355.00 is a deal?????? wow I would probably bet that I am the only one paying for that on this board for a 3 year lease????? If thats tooting my horn for my brag sounds stupid on the surface the deal that I got dont you think? I am only trying to make the point that underneath all the shout outs for dealers giving customers better deals than others or supposed ones anyway, there are always hidden factors to determine what is REALLY a good deal.

And as far as your comment on "their deals" thats the problem, you cant just assume that your deal is only based entirely on the price you believed you paid. Unless you paid cash.

Understandably miss information could wind up costing people money that a dealer would be quoting, but how do you even know that the dealer was even doing that, did you call them for yourself? just because ONE salesman said so? Seems very unfair to just assume since ONE sales person supposedly made a comment. They are in the business to make money and gain a continuing relationship with repeat customers, you cant doubt that, but to throw a dealer entirely under the bus from one mans comments to me is mean to say the least. And on a board like this, bad news travels fast, in fact like in the real world, faster than good news.

[vip]

$1355 vs $850 a month for similar equipped car others are getting. To me it's worth the wait to save an extra near $400 a month for 39 months. I've seen people pay over $1000 for an M3 without any MSDs, seems crazy.

[prolif1k]

Originally Posted by BEMR

1355.00 is a deal?????? wow I would probably bet that I am the only one paying for that on this board for a 3 year lease????? If thats tooting my horn for my brag sounds stupid on the surface the deal that I got dont you think? I am only trying to make the point that underneath all the shout outs for dealers giving customers better deals than others or supposed ones anyway, there are always hidden factors to determine what is REALLY a good deal.

And as far as your comment on "their deals" thats the problem, you cant just assume that your deal is only based entirely on the price you believed you paid. Unless you paid cash.

Understandably miss information could wind up costing people money that a dealer would be quoting, but how do you even know that the dealer was even doing that, did you call them for yourself? just because ONE salesman said so? Seems very unfair to just assume since ONE sales person supposedly made a comment. They are in the business to make money and gain a continuing relationship with repeat customers, you cant doubt that, but to throw a dealer entirely under the bus from one mans comments to me is mean to say the least. And on a board like this, bad news travels fast, in fact like in the real world, faster than good news.

You're assuming that I meant "deal" in a positive sense. A car "deal" can be either good, bad or in the middle. To correct, I meant feel better about your "bad" deal.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Without getting too personal...but this is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

Is your credit that average/low? Personally, I'm nothing special. High 700s, however I do have my own business and multiple properties despite my age. My current m6 (130k) monthly runs me 1500 a month- zero drive off, and we used the 2015s numbers to base in an estimate for my ordered 2016 M6- and that one is actually cheaper.

What's your history with BMW? I'm baffled by your number because I was quoted (on a 78k m4 before I decided to order a 2016 m6) 785 a month.

Something just doesn't add up on your lease payment...I don't mean to attack you, but you got swindled. Hard.

[kdm3]

Wow

[BEMR]

Originally Posted by MrSugarSkulls

Without getting too personal...but this is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

Is your credit that average/low? Personally, I'm nothing special. High 700s, however I do have my own business and multiple properties despite my age. My current m6 (130k) monthly runs me 1500 a month- zero drive off, and we used the 2015s numbers to base in an estimate for my ordered 2016 M6- and that one is actually cheaper.

What's your history with BMW? I'm baffled by your number because I was quoted (on a 78k m4 before I decided to order a 2016 m6) 785 a month.

Something just doesn't add up on your lease payment...I don't mean to attack you, but you got swindled. Hard.

I would like to clarify again in all due respect to your post, the point I have been trying to make simply relates to exactly what you have mentioned here, certain factors other than zero drive offs, are usually omitted from posts when guys put out the look what I got deal. I am simply trying to show that on the end of a low payment many factors can exist, and with me many factors can also exist below the surface that explain a high payment. But its the factors that are usually left out.

You can pay or even have a capitalized cost on a lease 500.00 over invoice for instance, its NOT the payment amount that determines whether or not I got a "good" deal or not, and as you suggested you were quoted 785.00 a month on a 78k M4. That quote was extremely misleading and simply impossible to attain and harder even if it included sales tax. The dealer actually wants you to believe that its all about the payment but that's not always the case.

First off, assuming BMW Financial Services is doing the lease as in my case when you mentioned "I got swindled" (and yes compared to 785 a month it sure would appear that on the surface) since 1991 I have lease 7 vehicles with BMW and have come to know the process pretty well. Some with zero drive offs some with little or nothing. BMWFS sets the residual, the money factor, and amounts they allow the dealers to pack into the deal above and beyond. If packed too much BMW would be sticking themselves in the end more than the customer, so they regulate it.

My 10.31.14 lease looks like this (not exacting to the penny) so you tell me if it sounds accurate or a BMWFS swindle:

83,500.00 Cap Cost based on full retail
55 % residual based on 15,000 miles a year or 45,000 miles at lease end
.00130 money factor again BMW sets
.0004 dealer add on to rate allowable standard from BMW if so desired NOT that they need to disclose this either
8% sales tax in Riverside County

It breaks down like this in the calculation, this seems to loose many for some reason on this thread:

83,500.00 x 55% = 45,925.00
83,500.00 (-) 45,925.00 = 37,575.00 (depreciation over 36 months)
37,575.00 \ 36 = 1043.75 (deprec portion of payment)
83,500.00 (+) 37,575.00 = 129,425.00 (total used in money factor calc)
129,425.00 x (.00130 + .0004) = 220.02
1043.75 + 220.02 = 1263.77
1263.77 x 8% sales tax = 101.10

1043.75 + 220.02 + 101.10 = 1364.87

So with zero drive offs 1364.87 would actually be the payment although I had about 500 upfront to arrive at 1355.00. Your 78g M4 they quoted you assuming 15g miles per year not 10g a year that most guys seem to do then get upside down at the end of the term, works out also to 1,115.00 a month LESS in the calculation the dealer added on rate of .0004. Far cry from the 785 they quoted you or about 330.00 a month or over 36 months a whopping 11,800.00 incorrect quote.

1355.00 seems just plain stupidity until you dig further as far as why. And as I said I received 8100.00 and 2200.00 from BMW that was arranged from the dealership to pull ahead a lease that was 6 months from completion, and keep in mind "there was no pull ahead program offered from BMW at the time nor has there been one for a 6 month pull ahead lease program on 10.31.14." so that must be factored in along with a waiving on 2200 of end of lease damages. And by the way, I LET the dealer add the .0004 to the deal or 55.00 a month for them since they actually pulled off something with BMW that was completely unavailable to the general public like myself.

[kdm3]

Originally Posted by BEMR

I would like to clarify again in all due respect to your post, the point I have been trying to make simply relates to exactly what you have mentioned here, certain factors other than zero drive offs, are usually omitted from posts when guys put out the look what I got deal. I am simply trying to show that on the end of a low payment many factors can exist, and with me many factors can also exist below the surface that explain a high payment. But its the factors that are usually left out.

You can pay or even have a capitalized cost on a lease 500.00 over invoice for instance, its NOT the payment amount that determines whether or not I got a "good" deal or not, and as you suggested you were quoted 785.00 a month on a 78k M4. That quote was extremely misleading and simply impossible to attain and harder even if it included sales tax. The dealer actually wants you to believe that its all about the payment but that's not always the case.

First off, assuming BMW Financial Services is doing the lease as in my case when you mentioned "I got swindled" (and yes compared to 785 a month it sure would appear that on the surface) since 1991 I have lease 7 vehicles with BMW and have come to know the process pretty well. Some with zero drive offs some with little or nothing. BMWFS sets the residual, the money factor, and amounts they allow the dealers to pack into the deal above and beyond. If packed too much BMW would be sticking themselves in the end more than the customer, so they regulate it.

My 10.31.14 lease looks like this (not exacting to the penny) so you tell me if it sounds accurate or a BMWFS swindle:

83,500.00 Cap Cost based on full retail
55 % residual based on 15,000 miles a year or 45,000 miles at lease end
.00130 money factor again BMW sets
.0004 dealer add on to rate allowable standard from BMW if so desired NOT that they need to disclose this either
8% sales tax in Riverside County

It breaks down like this in the calculation, this seems to loose many for some reason on this thread:

83,500.00 x 55% = 45,925.00
83,500.00 (-) 45,925.00 = 37,575.00 (depreciation over 36 months)
37,575.00 \ 36 = 1043.75 (deprec portion of payment)
83,500.00 (+) 37,575.00 = 129,425.00 (total used in money factor calc)
129,425.00 x (.00130 + .0004) = 220.02
1043.75 + 220.02 = 1263.77
1263.77 x 8% sales tax = 101.10

1043.75 + 220.02 + 101.10 = 1364.87

So with zero drive offs 1364.87 would actually be the payment although I had about 500 upfront to arrive at 1355.00. Your 78g M4 they quoted you assuming 15g miles per year not 10g a year that most guys seem to do then get upside down at the end of the term, works out also to 1,115.00 a month LESS in the calculation the dealer added on rate of .0004. Far cry from the 785 they quoted you or about 330.00 a month or over 36 months a whopping 11,800.00 incorrect quote.

1355.00 seems just plain stupidity until you dig further as far as why. And as I said I received 8100.00 and 2200.00 from BMW that was arranged from the dealership to pull ahead a lease that was 6 months from completion, and keep in mind "there was no pull ahead program offered from BMW at the time nor has there been one for a 6 month pull ahead lease program on 10.31.14." so that must be factored in along with a waiving on 2200 of end of lease damages. And by the way, I LET the dealer add the .0004 to the deal or 55.00 a month for them since they actually pulled off something with BMW that was completely unavailable to the general public like myself.

I'm sorry dude, that is the definition of swindled. Don Ready got the best of you, he's got you on the forum rooting for his maximum inflated Money Factor like its a good thing.

[BEMR]

Originally Posted by kdm3

I'm sorry dude, that is the definition of swindled. Don Ready got the best of you, he's got you on the forum rooting for his maximum inflated Money Factor like its a good thing.

Who the hell is "Don Ready"? LOL just saw the trailer, now I gotta see the movie. Takes place in Temecula too, thats where I live, hilarious. PS I am using the right money factors at the time.

[kdm3]

Originally Posted by BEMR

Who the hell is "Don Ready"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-VLtpSZh7o