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      05-15-2014, 02:51 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3
to quote the lexus commercial....."you are feeling powerful...in a 4 cylinder engine...." haha
I love this commercial
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      05-15-2014, 02:52 PM   #90
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I don't think enough people here have experience with a turbo 4 to speak on the matter. When you begin to DD a turbo 4 motor and then try to mod it in anyway or can relate to reliability please come back and speak.
I have experience with them. That's how I ended up with a 135i I didn't want another turbo I4.

However, a hypothetical future M3/4 powered by an I4 turbo is not the same as an I4 turbo powered car you can buy today. Especially when you're talking 7 years in to the future. It's difficult to predict what technologies will become commonplace by then. A high-boost I4 accompanied by a hybrid electric power-train doesn't sound as bad to me as a plain old high-boost I4 turbo.
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      05-15-2014, 02:55 PM   #91
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Next stop, autonomous M cars.
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      05-15-2014, 03:02 PM   #92
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If this happens you'll see me in a Corvettes
Exactly people who buy an M car should not be concerned with gas mileage, put the 4 cylinder engines in the regular model lineups of the 2,3, and 4 series and leave the bigger engines in the 5,6,7 and M models. Sorry to say it but I would never buy an M with a 4 cylinder I will take a corvette C7 V8 engine any day.
Word to the wise, you must be over 50 with a huge gut, to ever own a Corvette.
I thought it was 60 & over
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      05-15-2014, 03:12 PM   #93
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      05-15-2014, 03:12 PM   #94
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This future downsizing added to my decision to buy my 2010 M6. It's not like gas is $10 per gallon. I just don't get why the "hardcore" brand needs to be efficient.

With that said, I'll be buying an M4 Euro delivery once I can get Euro invoice pricing...I can wait.
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      05-15-2014, 03:15 PM   #95
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Can you say....
ahyyyy that's coolamongo
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      05-15-2014, 03:26 PM   #96
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I thought it was 60 & over
I'm only 37, but I'm considering getting in to a Corvette under the balding exception clause
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      05-15-2014, 03:35 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roho3323 View Post
This future downsizing added to my decision to buy my 2010 M6. It's not like gas is $10 per gallon. I just don't get why the "hardcore" brand needs to be efficient.

With that said, I'll be buying an M4 Euro delivery once I can get Euro invoice pricing...I can wait.
like said before. it has less to do with trying to help people with there 70k BMW to pay less at the pump. more to do with meeting government laws to become more efficient. the world over all is trying to be more and more efficient as time goes on.

i see a trend like what you did. people are going to buy some of these "old" cars like the V10 M6 or the AMG N/A V8 C63. and holding on to them. while then getting new generation cars.
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      05-15-2014, 03:42 PM   #98
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If it is a hybrid engine then by all means. The world is changing but this next generation car is a way's off. I'm more interested in what the Competition Package will bring to the new M3/M4 as that is more present time .
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      05-15-2014, 03:44 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by roho3323 View Post
This future downsizing added to my decision to buy my 2010 M6. It's not like gas is $10 per gallon. I just don't get why the "hardcore" brand needs to be efficient.
errm it is $10 a gallon in the UK! too much tax
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      05-15-2014, 04:33 PM   #100
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Inevitably, technology is advancing and the good old days of N/A motors will soon become completely obsolete, just like the manual gearbox. Where turbo chargers USED to be the "secret sauce" of making significantly more power and torque out of a comparably displaced N/A motor, they are now as ubiquitous as well...todays BMWs in their manufacturing plants and dealerships worldwide. In other words, essentially all makes and models, minus the SELECT few automobile manufacturers who are desperately holding on to the N/A application, will be forced induction. Soon the turbos/superchargers will be replaced, or rather, will be complemented by the new wave of automotive technology, electric power.

Based on the OPs discussion here about the "possibility" of a 4 cylinder motor for the next M3, of course it can and most likely will happen. For everybody on the forum whose primary concern for these new vehicles is the amount of power the car makes, let me be the first to tell you, you need NOT worry about the incapability of a 4 cylinder engine making enough power. They can make SIGNIFICANT power, and with the advancement in technology today and more specifically over the next 6-7 years, they will be able to do it in a way that will of course be reliable for a DD car, in my opinion. For those who understand that the true dynamics and meaning of an ///M car has always been ALL aspects of the car, not just engine power, the 4 cylinder motor will obviously aid in every aspect of handling and weight, paired with the carbon fiber technology and yes, battery power that I'm 99.99% sure, will complement the upcoming 4 banger.

What does this all mean? Well, I for one didn't appreciate N/A motors until I owned my e92 M3 to be completely honest with all of you. I was never a fan of American cars, and I absolutely loved destroying the loud V8s with my 2.0 liter, 4 cylinder motor. I had Evos from 2005-2012, until I finally let my Evo IX go for a new E92. I had a strong desire to step it up in the quality and class department, plus I wasn't in my 20s anymore.

Coming from my Evo did I notice immediately the lack of torque coming from the S65? Absolutely. On the contrary, did I notice the immediate response of the S65? 100%. I didn't get the E92 M3 car to be the street racer, I got it because I could get an incredible package out of the gate that I didn't need to modify and could still perform EXTREMELY well at the track......and wellll, the lack of modifying will obviously change. ;-) Just to be clear, my Evo would run circles around my M3, but it definitely wasn't stock. My Evo trapped 124mph in the quarter mile on the stock block and pump gas. Yes, it was wild.

The only thing I know right now is that in 5-10 years and beyond, many people will have a significant desire to get into the car, with the "antiquated" gas guzzling motor that makes that incredible sound and sucks up gasoline like well, my S65. Do I care? Absolutely not. It will always be a gem.

The new M3/M4 will be incredible performers NO doubt. They will be incredibly potent machines with the turbo charging application, but yes, the sound will never compare until you open up the exhaust pipes and throw some external VTA wastegates on them. Obviously however, it will never sound like a V8 either.

Everybody on this forum should be incredibly proud to own whatever version of the M3. They are all great cars, my brother has an E36 M3 and I love that too. Sooooo light, it's manual, and so fun.

Mercedes Benz and their CLA 45 has the highest stock horsepower in 4 cylinder form, and they have the same transverse engine setup as my 4G63 had. They can make gobs more power out of that too. Now just imagine what will happen "when and if" BMW throws in electric power to complement the fully capable 4 cylinder of the future? Well, one can only imagine what that car will be like, but the torque fill will do EVERYTHING to create instant performance that lacked in larger turbo 4 cylinder setups such as this, and will equally benefit from a high revving 4 cylinder motor. An example of my old Evo.



I clearly NEVER post, so i apologize for all the words. I had some things to say.
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      05-15-2014, 05:00 PM   #101
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I clearly NEVER post, so i apologize for all the words. I had some things to say.
you are all good man.

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      05-15-2014, 05:01 PM   #102
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Yes I can definitely see this, DTM racing is going from V8 to 4 cylinder turbo engines in a couple years:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2013/...gines-by-2016/
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      05-15-2014, 05:12 PM   #103
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I guarantee with the success of the ED program seen on the i8, the next M3/4 will have similar hybrid configurations.
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      05-15-2014, 05:12 PM   #104
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      05-15-2014, 05:19 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoixiaoni View Post
Inevitably, technology is advancing and the good old days of N/A motors will soon become completely obsolete, just like the manual gearbox. Where turbo chargers USED to be the "secret sauce" of making significantly more power and torque out of a comparably displaced N/A motor, they are now as ubiquitous as well...todays BMWs in their manufacturing plants and dealerships worldwide. In other words, essentially all makes and models, minus the SELECT few automobile manufacturers who are desperately holding on to the N/A application, will be forced induction. Soon the turbos/superchargers will be replaced, or rather, will be complemented by the new wave of automotive technology, electric power.

Based on the OPs discussion here about the "possibility" of a 4 cylinder motor for the next M3, of course it can and most likely will happen. For everybody on the forum whose primary concern for these new vehicles is the amount of power the car makes, let me be the first to tell you, you need NOT worry about the incapability of a 4 cylinder engine making enough power. They can make SIGNIFICANT power, and with the advancement in technology today and more specifically over the next 6-7 years, they will be able to do it in a way that will of course be reliable for a DD car, in my opinion. For those who understand that the true dynamics and meaning of an ///M car has always been ALL aspects of the car, not just engine power, the 4 cylinder motor will obviously aid in every aspect of handling and weight, paired with the carbon fiber technology and yes, battery power that I'm 99.99% sure, will complement the upcoming 4 banger.

What does this all mean? Well, I for one didn't appreciate N/A motors until I owned my e92 M3 to be completely honest with all of you. I was never a fan of American cars, and I absolutely loved destroying the loud V8s with my 2.0 liter, 4 cylinder motor. I had Evos from 2005-2012, until I finally let my Evo IX go for a new E92. I had a strong desire to step it up in the quality and class department, plus I wasn't in my 20s anymore.

Coming from my Evo did I notice immediately the lack of torque coming from the S65? Absolutely. On the contrary, did I notice the immediate response of the S65? 100%. I didn't get the E92 M3 car to be the street racer, I got it because I could get an incredible package out of the gate that I didn't need to modify and could still perform EXTREMELY well at the track......and wellll, the lack of modifying will obviously change. ;-) Just to be clear, my Evo would run circles around my M3, but it definitely wasn't stock. My Evo trapped 124mph in the quarter mile on the stock block and pump gas. Yes, it was wild.

The only thing I know right now is that in 5-10 years and beyond, many people will have a significant desire to get into the car, with the "antiquated" gas guzzling motor that makes that incredible sound and sucks up gasoline like well, my S65. Do I care? Absolutely not. It will always be a gem.

The new M3/M4 will be incredible performers NO doubt. They will be incredibly potent machines with the turbo charging application, but yes, the sound will never compare until you open up the exhaust pipes and throw some external VTA wastegates on them. Obviously however, it will never sound like a V8 either.

Everybody on this forum should be incredibly proud to own whatever version of the M3. They are all great cars, my brother has an E36 M3 and I love that too. Sooooo light, it's manual, and so fun.

Mercedes Benz and their CLA 45 has the highest stock horsepower in 4 cylinder form, and they have the same transverse engine setup as my 4G63 had. They can make gobs more power out of that too. Now just imagine what will happen "when and if" BMW throws in electric power to complement the fully capable 4 cylinder of the future? Well, one can only imagine what that car will be like, but the torque fill will do EVERYTHING to create instant performance that lacked in larger turbo 4 cylinder setups such as this, and will equally benefit from a high revving 4 cylinder motor. An example of my old Evo.

I clearly NEVER post, so i apologize for all the words. I had some things to say.
Good comments... but you missed a few things...

1) How reliable r high strung 4 cylinder motors? I know plenty of Evo, MS3 and STI owners and the answer is not very.
2) How much wtq can a 4 banger handle? The answer is not much reliably. Better yet, how much wtq can a 4 banger on the stock turbo even make and does the curve look nearly as good? Not even close to what a 6 or 8 could have.
3) How laggy is a 4 banger turbo? Much more so than a 6 or 8 would be unless you pair it with some sort of electric / hybrid system?
4) NVH on 4 cylinder motors... I simply think we r not there.

There would need to be 7 years of very significant leaps in turbo tech and general engine advancement before this can seriously happen. I know no one that speaks wonders of that CLA motor you speak of... in fact; when reviewers compared to the M235i's N55... it was actually considered pure JUNK.

Also... purely hypothetical... but this would need to be a 4 banger that makes 100 hp more than that CLA motor. I do not believe that BMW can do that reliable; definitely not without electric pairing. I don't think in 7 years the technology of 1 million dollar cars will trickle into 75K ones.
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      05-15-2014, 05:25 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC
I hope they do it, just to see how dedicated the fanboys are.
Haha this is awesome.

BMW thinks it can drop weight of M3 w CF and then justify a 4 cyl bc its about as fast as the previous haha, everyone will just to audi and merc porshe etc. BMW follows everything audi does 2-4 years later, the only chance bmw m3 goes 4'cyl if audi s/rs5 does
Anyway BMW is not going to screw w the M3, if they want a guinni pig they will use M2

I think the real question is for the 4 cyl is Why? Just because you can?
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      05-15-2014, 05:36 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
in fact; when reviewers compared to the M235i's N55... it was actually considered pure JUNK.
Look, I beat the "high-boost I4 engines have lag" drum as much as the next guy, but your comment here is complete bullshit. No reputable reviewer has said the M133 is "pure JUNK". Not even close. They say that it's a remarkable engine, but suffers from turbo lag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Also... purely hypothetical... but this would need to be a 4 banger that makes 100 hp more than that CLA motor. I do not believe that BMW can do that reliable; definitely not without electric pairing. I don't think in 7 years the technology of 1 million dollar cars will trickle into 75K ones.
Seven years is a while. Look at the crazy new ERS (energy recovery systems) they're using in F1. How long before that kind of tech makes it in to road cars?

I agree that you're not going to change the laws of physics for an I4 engine. It's always going to suffer from NVH and lag, but reliability is an engineering problem, and humans are damned good at engineering. You can't compare a factory engineered 1.8 bar boosted I4 to a tuner car. Tuners have 1/100th the R&D budget. When's the last time you heard of a local/regional tuner that was breaking ground in materials engineering research?

I do think we'll see an I4 turbo with a higher specific output than Mercedes' M133 engine (agree, probably not 100 HP more), and I think there's a strong possibility we'll see it paired with a hybrid electric driveline. There are plenty of buyers who will reject it, but there are a whole new generation of buyers who will embrace it.
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      05-15-2014, 05:39 PM   #108
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BMW thinks it can drop weight of M3 w CF and then justify a 4 cyl bc its about as fast as the previous haha, everyone will just to audi and merc porshe etc.
What happens when the Audi, Mercedes, and Porsche options are all turbocharged 4-cylinders as well?

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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I think the real question is for the 4 cyl is Why? Just because you can?
The reasons are obvious. Many of us don't like the reasons, but that doesn't make them disappear. Government regulation stipulates significant reductions in CO2 output and fuel consumption in the near future. You can't keep using the same formula and expect the result to change. Reducing the size of the internal combustion engine is a great way to reduce fuel consumption and CO2 emissions.
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      05-15-2014, 05:41 PM   #109
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Quote:
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Look, I beat the "high-boost I4 engines have lag" drum as much as the next guy, but your comment here is complete bullshit. No reputable reviewer has said the M133 is "pure JUNK". Not even close. They say that it's a remarkable engine, but suffers from turbo lag.

That along with sound are two pretty big issues. At least a 6 can still sound good... Stock FI 4 bangers, rarely do.


Seven years is a while. Look at the crazy new ERS (energy recovery systems) they're using in F1. How long before that kind of tech makes it in to road cars?

I agree that you're not going to change the laws of physics for an I4 engine. It's always going to suffer from NVH and lag, but reliability is an engineering problem, and humans are damned good at engineering. You can't compare a factory engineered 1.8 bar boosted I4 to a tuner car. Tuners have 1/100th the R&D budget. When's the last time you heard of a local/regional tuner that was breaking ground in materials engineering research?

I do think we'll see an I4 turbo with a higher specific output than Mercedes' M133 engine, and I think there's a strong possibility we'll see it paired with a hybrid electric driveline. There are plenty of buyers who will reject it, but there are a whole new generation of buyers who will embrace it.
A whole lot of assumptions there... all I am saying is that I don't believe it until I see it. The only electric pairing that currently happens is with monster motors and lightweight supercars that make recovery that much easier. Add the NVH and general reliability issues and so forth so forth... we have a long way to go. And then, the dude next to you in an old ass random turbo 6 blows right past you on 10 year old technology that is much cheaper.
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      05-15-2014, 05:48 PM   #110
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I'm only 37, but I'm considering getting in to a Corvette under the balding exception clause
ONLY 37...it's up there already.. Lol jk, but not really.
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